Whitmore

[Antigen]

Alana, I don't think Tori is exactly trying to be dishonest w/ you. I do believe these kids when they tell us about what often happens after Cheryl calls Group on someone. I can't believe they just make this stuff up because it's just so similar to what used to happen when staff at Straight called Group on someone. And just the same as what kids from Elan to Provo to CEDU describe happening to them

It's not that they're concious of being involved in wrongdoing and all conspiring to cover it up. It's more like they think that us unenlightened outsiders just wouldn't understand. So it's just a little white lie, see? Really, it's all for the greater good, you see?

 

If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
--Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet

[Gmom]

I guess the easy road is to say, well, I don't think it happened to my child, so the Sudweeks are wonderful people.  But, if it happens to one child, it can happen to any child.  That's the danger.  We are responsible to seek answers, to find the truth, and, in this case, to see that justice is served.

[Anonymous]

as far as the controversy over spitting in the food goes you people can believe what you like. but when she got put on the shelf they feed her old hamburger buns with peanut butter and jelly inside and the kid that spit in it told me out of his own two lips that he spit right inside it.

[Antigen]

On 2005-03-29 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"as far as the controversy over spitting in the food goes you people can believe what you like. but when she got put on the shelf they feed her old hamburger buns with peanut butter and jelly inside and the kid that spit in it told me out of his own two lips that he spit right inside it."

See, that's the sort of thing that just confuses the hell out of people who are trying to fight over the absolute good or the absolute bad of the place/people/group... whatever.

I tend to believe what you say and the kid who said he did it because it fits w/ just about everything else I'm learning about the place. Do I think Cheryl or Mark explicitly instructed a kid "Now, go and spit in this kid's food... go ahead, it's therapeutic"? No, not likely. But that they set up an environment where the kids might believe that the kid who's currently on the shit list deserves this kind of treatment? Yeah, that makes some sense.

What's more, I still believe that Whitmore delivers on the one, single promise by which it's sometimes marketed; not as bad as some WWASPS programs. My point in inviting discussion about Whitmore was to find out just what that means. What is this alternative to alternative, how does it work and is it really worth it?

Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?  
--Economist Milton Friedman

[Anonymous]

Think Whitmore works a whole lot like WWASP. There just is not a whole lot of difference. It is smaller. The abuse is a bit less. The religion had a lot more emphasis. They throw in some travel stuff and horses. The facility sort of looks/sounds good on the surface. But you get right down to it: same concept, for "therapy." Same concept: kids supervising/abusing kids
Same concept: inadequate food...inadequate supervision of the kids...lack of education
Same condept: controlling the parents
SAME DEAL: making big money off desperate parents, and the kids pay the price in a horrific way. Both WWASP and Whitmore: abuse, neglect of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Prediction::::....ready class?

SUDS activities become known via depositions........all facts will be fully disclosed...........presented for all to see..........ALANA becomes ever more silent.......her character is becomes known for what its worth......NOTHING........WHITMORE ASYLUM fades away......SUDS lose nothing...because they have NOTHING.....empty pathetic persons.......GOOD comes also......no more lies, deceit, fraud, stealing of money and property.............what a shame....poor Whitmore....they were doing sooooo much for soooo many..........TORI seems to be the only recent success...she sounds delightful...........NORMAL HOME?.............hm...

[Antigen]

Well, I would say that Whitmore is similar to a WWASPS school (or a CEDU or Provo or New Horizons.... the list goes on and on and on) in a couple of ways.

They market to desperate parents, telling them whatever works to close the deal. They hold themselves out to be experts in straightening out troubled teenagers when, in fact, they have no such legitimate claim. When held to task for anything, they simply deflect the critizism by pathologizing the critic. And I think they all believe their own BS.

There are differences. WWASPS is a largeish trade organization which services a group of 'schools' and programs as well as extremely well coordinated seminars, referal programs and other efforts to fully engage the parents on an ongoing basis. Whitmore is just one small group,  evidently working w/just one referal service. There seems to be a sort of ad-hoc effort to get some milage out of the dedicated parents, but it's nowhere near as sophisticated as the RR program.

I think it comes together most obviously in the fact that both sides probably sincerely believe that they're the good guys and them others are doing it all wrong.
 

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

[Antigen]

As for predictions, I think you're shooting kinda high. Look how they spin the Canadian animal abuse convictions.

The true believers won't be moved at all by whatever comes up in deposition. They'll just call it purjory and pile another heaping helping of martyrdome on themselves. See, us poor unenlightened outsiders just aren't capable of understanding the miracle that is the Whitmore. And those former insiders? Oh, they're just mad w/ sick, twisted anger cause they couldn't get the program.

If you think that finding of child abuse, neglect or (those sickeningly patronizing) program guidelines is going to put them out of business, well ask Mark Wardle.

I do think it's worth pursuing, though, if only to provide validation to some of the people mentioned above and to pile just a ream or two of evidence on the mounting stack indicating that something stinks in Utah.

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
--John Adams, U.S. President

[Anonymous]

A whole lot stinks in Utah. It's a wonder those people can catch their breath.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-23 14:42:00, Alana wrote:

"Do you honestly think there is a troubled teen program anywhere that doesn't have a few kids complaining?  Get a grip!  Look at the numbers!"

SEVEN criminal complaints....now numerous TORTS (civil wrongs,,, class).....Still have your heads in the sand??..........support the ASYLUM???......regardless of the facts???...insanity driving the bus???....but you say, "ALANA is an educated woman,.....a professional in the litigation arena"???........Certainly hope she is advising the ASYLUM folk........HOPE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO............LOL

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-29 10:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I might be disgusted.  I might not.  Again, though, I was in a different situation than you or whomever you know are.  I've seen teenagers do disgusting things - much worse than spit in peanut butter.  I have a different perspective than you do.  If one, two, or a few more kids said it happened, and others said it didn't, I certainly wouldn't leap to conclusions. I also take every bit of "drama" that troubled teens report with more than a few grains of salt.



Like I said, I have my opinion and this forum is the very LAST thing that would alter it, particularly given the hostile, dramatic, hysteria-prone postings by a very few.  For any teen program, I would absolutely expect a number of teens to complain.  Scores of children have been at The Whitmore over the years.  Of course a few will allege abuse.  Am I saying abuse is okay?  Of course not!  I'm just saying that I need to see a heck of lot more before I believe it.  The same is true for parents.  Some parents - out of scores of parents - will hate the program.  



I'm happy because I'm not trying to get anyone to change their opinion.  Others are unhappy because I'm not conforming to their view.  I'm simply pointing out that we are ALL entitled to our views.  That seems to be very hard for some to take. "

Not so fast Ms. Program Apologist ... if true, spitting into someone's food or face is by all accounts abusive care and treatment whether it happens alot or just once or twice.  

Second, it's clear no one values your opinion except a handful of program supporters who like you appear to have an incentive to spin the facts in support of their own self-serving agenda.

Perhaps if you made an effort to examine the facts in this case instead of burying your head in the sand like a coward, people might be inclined to respect your "views" instead of writing you off as a card-carrying stupid head.

 :wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:  :wstupid:

:roll:

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the County Attorney LISTENED and charged MRS. SUDWEEKS with 7 counts of child abuse, and I bet you---not one of those charges is merely spiting on some kid or spiting in their food! I don't know how Mr. Eldridge felt about some grown woman spitting on kids--but gurarantee you that's not what he charged the Queen of Mean with.

[Anonymous]

I believe you meant "spitting"??? :lol:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-28 16:37:00, Alana wrote:

"I'm just saying that absolutely NOTHING has been substantiated.  Everything flying around on this website about abuse are allegations that are as yet completely unsubstantiated.  If in fact they are substantiated, I will respectfully appreciate the postings; I am merely sharing my own experience and that of my daughter.  I am not sharing allegations, accusations, hyperbole, or the like.  I am sharing my actual experience.  Why would I change my mind over some hysteria and unsubstantiated accusations?  As I have previously stated, no program is for everyone.  I just think all the hype and hysteria should not be what people base their opinions on.  I am also not saying that abuse is okay.  We must realize, though, that there is a wide spectrum of behavior and perceptions.  All we can do is trust our instincts.  Taking allegations as fact, though, is - to me - premature and unnecessary - not to mention destructive.  There was a time when my daughter thought being grounded was abusive.  Parents are entitled to their views.  I'm just giving mine here.



Let the facts speak for themselves.  I do believe, though, that if any children were in real danger, the authorities would have taken swift action, and my daughter would want to leave there.  That is not the case.  The facts as they are REMAIN:  Some people love The Whitmore; some people do not.  It has worked miracles for our family."

There YOU GO..........THAT'S A FACT ........ALANA GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT.......GUESS SHE'S DONE..............TORI'S ON THE RUN I HEAR............UNCLE SAM OWNS HER NOW......WOW.....POW.....BATMAN.........

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-28 16:48:00, Alana wrote:

"You are entitled to your opinion.  In the meantime, my child has been home several times and is completely open and honest.



She has not been abused.  That's all I can speak to.  I will not buy into the hysteria and unsubstantiated accusations.  



We can only base our opinions on our own experience.  I wish you luck with yours."

MAMA ALANA WAS A HUGE HELP....LOVE YA BABE....