Who knows Dean Vause - lets have some facts here too

[THEJOSHUAFACTOR]

OKAY Ass-hats;

Why would you measure the success of someone who didnt finish the program? You are crying science, but in science, in order to get effective results one must complete the operations necessary for deducing......... accurate and complete results.

So how would it be an effective measure if someone didn't complete treatment start to finish?

Yall need to rock yall couches. This is pretty basic order here... none of you seem to posess adequate knowledge of well... anything.[ This Message was edited by: THEJOSHUAFACTOR on 2006-04-27 12:34 ][ This Message was edited by: THEJOSHUAFACTOR on 2006-04-27 13:10 ]

[ajax13]

In response to:
Second, those who did not graduate, weren't treated properly, so why should they be included in the statistics. Anybody putting out a product in to society, doesn't cover products under the manufacturer's warranty if they haven't been certified in the first place. I see no difference between the two.  Fourthly, I think we all know what a "problem" is. We all learned it in early childhood and it is pretty clear that any person needing to be admitted to AARC has at least one problem.

Fantastic demonstration of the lack of cognitive skills among AARColytes.  AARC graduates are not the product AARC sells.  AARC sells treatment.  Somebody pays for every AARC inmate, whether they graduate or not.  AARC clients are the "customers".  
That last bit was just too rich.  
In general, people admitted to AARC have a number of problems.  As a rule,  their mothers have mental illness or just poor parenting skills.  Their fathers are absent, damaged or again, just have poor parenting skills.  Another significant problem that someone admitted to AARC has is that they are in AARC.  That's probably the biggest problem.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who knows anything about research knows that you have to include *everyone who starts* treatment (not just graduates) in your statistics in order for them to honestly demonstrate the success rate of your treatment.

This is known as "intention to treat" analysis-- and it is a critical element in evaluating health care. For example, let's say I'm trying to sell my "eat no food for 40 days" diet.  I can honestly claim that 100% of people who religiously follow this diet will lose weight.  Of course, virtually no one will do that-- and this is one reason why intention to treat analysis matters.  it measures real-world outcomes, not outcomes of those with superhuman will power.

Or, say, I have a treatment for nail fungus that works great but causes severe diarrhea.  Virtually no one will be willing to put up with that side effect so my clinical trials are going to have a high drop out rate:  but I could possibly sneak the drug past the FDA if I didn't do intention to treat analysis, which is another reason why it is used.

Also of note:  for a study to realistically measure treatment outcomes, not only does it have to be an intention-to-treat analysis, it has to reach a significant portion of those who started the study.  In other words, mailing a survey and getting 30% of them back doesn't count.  Unless you get 60, 70, 80% or more back, you are probably having a selection effect:  in other words, the people who are replying are not a random sample.

Most likely, you are getting a larger proportion replying of those doing well-- for several reasons.  One:  people not doing well might not be reachable by mail-- homeless, in jail, etc.  Two:  people not doing well have been taught to blame themselves, so they are embarrassed to admit it.  Three:  people doing well like to boast about it and will take the time to fill out the survey.  Etc.

Unless you have a significant response rate (or you control for lack of response by assuming a large negative bias-- for example, assuming all nonresponders have bad outcomes), you are not going to say anything real about effectiveness.

And, of course, you should also have a control group that was either untreated or treated with a different method in order to show that people didn't just get better with time, which is very, very common with kids.

[Dannyb123]

I am sorry but MOST of you people have the wrong Idea about AARC.

This is my story.

Me and my 3 brothers have grown up as third class citizens our entire life my two oldest brothers are well off. one is going to university and the other one is now a well known electrical engineer i am finishing my grade twelve and my other brother who is younger then I is in AARC. Now last summer my brother got into a confrontation at home while I had moved out and Hit my mother for the first time. I almost killed him when i saw him next. He is lucky my mom found AARC because it got him away from her. It has been 5 months now that he as been in AARC and has finally earned step 3. At this point he has actually admitted that he had hit my mother because he was craving drugs and she was not letting him. (I would like to add hear that IT WAS BECAUSE OF DRUGS!!!!!) now that he is home and dealing with the problems he no longer feels as if he needs drugs, and he is open and tells us what he has pain over and what caused him to use drugs. (This is not a cult and i know that for one reason, THEY DON'T TELL YOU WHAT TO BELIEVE your Higher power can be AA, NA, or the GOD from the HOLY BIBLE what ever you need it to be, except it can not be your self! and a cult try to make you believe in there god! not letting you have a choice in the matter.) Coming to this point shows that AARC is about getting real for the reason that you do things and to be honest not just with other but with YOURSELF! this is the most important part because if you can't be truthful to yourself then how can you respect yourself or others! what i have seen this place works EVEN for a person who was going to kill themselves "AKA" my brother even after only 4 years of drug use and abuse. If you understand Addiction the you will understand that it is and obsession of the mind that i recently learnt, after they use once they can't stop thinking about it because of how good it felt to feel Nothing!

Yes in the beginning i thought that DR V was over the top but you know what. Once you have been at the end of the casket of your friend who Drank them self's to DEATH then you might have a different approach, see a Difficult disease calls for desperate measures and stopping my brother from me killing him or him killing himself IS WORTH IT! and this goes back to Detachment i Love my Brother but if he touched my mother one more time it is better that he would die so he wouldn't hurt anyone ever again then letting it continue because watching him destroy himself was just as destructive as him hitting my mother because we get to watch him go down.(This disease effects the whole family trust me i have watched it happen to my own!) This was tearing my family apart. Now that we are through part of this program our family peaces are now being put back together and its all thanks to DR.V.

Story finished!

Now how many times does it take some one to get addicted to a substance? have you ever done research!!!! well there are two answers for a person such as my self it would take alot because i do not have an addictive mind set i can take 1 drink and never think of it again, it would take me forcing my self to drink for a few weeks to break the bearior into the threshold of addiction. However for my brother who has a very addictive mind set he took his first huff and got addicted that's all he could think about! really its the roll of the die, similar to how long it takes for them to head down hill. if they dive full into it they will soon with in 6 - 18 months to the point where they OD a fare bit(this in its self is life threatening) and they want to stop but they just can't. (if you look into addiction it is actual the loss of the ability to make the decision to say no to and particular thing. Addiction doesn't just pertain to drugs, people have also become addicted to computer games!) so legalizing drugs would only make this more accessible to them and allow the circle of addiction to continue AKA BAD IDEA!!!!!!!

And again with DR.V I Looked at his paper and he has QUOTED every source that he used case study's, everything! So understand the word Plagiarism before you accuse a person of it and read there paper! you might actual find out that you don't actually know as much as you think you do.. and.. you can actually speak without making a fool of your self... WHAT a wonder that would be. Try to sound smart for a change, DO RESEARCH. i know to much to ask right, you know getting facts right and all! And how this sounds you should be in AARC as well allot of you, and to those of you who don't use come and see the miracle that happens and how they get out of them self's and help others to fill that need for drugs! that's what AARC teaches and you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand it just plain ignorant and i hate people who don't know how to actually look into something and give hard proven facts and only use there feelings to dictate fact. I am sorry but ADAAC has a less then 20% success rate for people that stay sober then AARC who has a more then 80 % success rate for people that stay sober so all I can tell you is that a bad tree cant bare good fruit.

That's it and there aint no more

P.S. They do include all of the people who start! AKA the one who drank him self to death was included in the stats and he didn't stay past step 1. To all those who sit there typing to criticize me i would suggest you think whole heatedly if you want to argue the fact the my brother will now be sober because of this place and it finally gave him back the power to say NO and live his life instead of running away from the pain (O ya and i forgot to mention that ya they force you to delve and talk about your most deepest darkest secrets for one reason if you can't be honest with others and with your self YOU WONT MAKE IT! you will end up hating your self other and eventually killing your self like the guy who you guys spoke of most attentively i am sorry but he was sick and stuck in his disease if he chose to bear what ever it was he would find acceptance and understanding helping him get over it instead of internalizing it.) that's y DR.V would not let him work for him again and that's because if your are in your disease you can not show the way out no matter what your experiences where before that. like think logically about this i will give you a little metaphor a blind man says to another man in the dark night let me show you the light so the man on the ground unable to see takes the mans and and the blind man walks them into a ditch. how can a man blind lead anyone to a source of light!

[Dannyb123]

Fantastic demonstration of the lack of cognitive skills among AARColytes. AARC graduates are not the product AARC sells. AARC sells treatment. Somebody pays for every AARC inmate, whether they graduate or not. AARC clients are the "customers".
That last bit was just too rich.
In general, people admitted to AARC have a number of problems. As a rule, their mothers have mental illness or just poor parenting skills. Their fathers are absent, damaged or again, just have poor parenting skills. Another significant problem that someone admitted to AARC has is that they are in AARC. That's probably the biggest problem.

Realy??? my mother is mentaly ill. hmm she cooks she cleans and she goes out of her way to make sure that we are taken care of and then she takes care of herself, she then disiplined us when we needed it because we where doing somthing WRONG go figure i think this is called parenting skills 101. And my father was never absent although he did work a fair bit he was alwas a part of our lives. and how can being admited to AARC be a problem??? they have to have a problem first before they are addmited to AARC. THEY ARE ADDICTS! amayzing consept... people... who are addicts... admited to a fourm of.. long term regerus drug Rehab... NO WAY... WHY WOULD THAT HAPPEN???

seriously man I dont speek for you but your angry that they actuly have acheaments and your left in the dust, because you refuse to be honost your post was filled with hate and dont understand a dam thing, get out of your self and be glad that some people get out of this addiction and into a life to which they can call there own. And maby you can get out of your sinkhole of a life and learn somthing

[Anonymous]

I guess you won't watch the Fifth Estate tonight on CBC, you'll be at "open meeting" at AARC.

You can still catch it on Sat or next week though.

 :deal:

[ajax13]

I am sorry but ADAAC has a less then 20% success rate for people that stay sober then AARC who has a more then 80 % success rate for people that stay sober so all I can tell you is that a bad tree cant bare good fruit.

Yet another example of an AARColyte selling the lie that over 80% of AARColytes stay sober, when their own study showed that only 48% of their sample group had stayed sober from graduation up to the time of the study.  As the time since graduation varied widely, from a few months up to five years, nothing in the study indicates that the long-term outcome for graduates of AARC will be any better than AADAC.

Hope it's not too windy up on that hill, AARC army!

[TheWho]

If you keep reading thru the study you will come upon Table 2:

AARC Outcome Study

Summary:
85% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 4 years
93% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 12 months
52% of all graduates have had at least one relapse since graduating.

[sldl]

I know Dean Vause for 30 years since he was in Kamsack Sask as a guidance cousellor , he was nice funny and caring, He cared about everyone and was always will to help someone.