Author Topic: Important Points  (Read 4614 times)

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Offline Antigen

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Important Points
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2005, 12:52:00 PM »
Well, who are ya' gonna believe; me or your own lyin' eyes?

Really, anon, you give me too much credit. I don't have that kind of control over anybody.

As to whether or not an abuse complaint would bring down a questionable program in Utah, you must be joking! Here's a list of 77 children who have died in these programs:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8 ... /id74.html

Many of those programs are in or based in Utah and most of them are still in operation.

It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2005, 01:14:00 PM »
Case in point:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... 78&forum=9

Quote
Facility: DISTANT DRUMS
Contact: MARK WARDLE, EXEC DIRECTOR Phone: 435 6230548
Mail: PO BOX 96
NEPHI, UT 84648 County: JUAB
License: Type: Initial Begins: 2/22/2005 Ends: 5/31/2005
Service: Outdoor Youth Treatment Specific: YOUTH TX
Capacity: 30 Gender: Ages: 13 THROUGH 17 YEARS
Licensor:  Diana Robbins  


So, even after the death of Ian Augus, Nephi, Utah doesn't have a problem w/ issuing a license to Mark Wardle again.

And this begs the question, what the hell does it take to earn the contempt of the Nephi PD as you folks claim you have done?

All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2005, 02:19:00 PM »
Does make you wonder what the Sudweeks did to keep saying the Nephi Police hate them so much...even hate them bad enough to write what they call "fake police reports about them." HUH?

And that the people in Canada hate them, TOO.
And that the poeple in Mexico hate them, TOO.

Why that takes in the whole of NORTH AMERICA!!!

Just what have these people done to generate that much hate?

And this place Ginger posted actually were responsible for KILLING somebody, and good old Nephi still likes them!

Poor misunderstood Suds!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2005, 03:31:00 PM »
Look, in all fairness, it could be that WWASPS is throwing the Suds to the wolves. That doesn't automagically make the Suds blameless and saintly, though. And I think that's been the big misunderstanding. A LOT of people seem to have assumed that anybody who's at odds w/ WWASPS must be the good guys.

I never fell for that myself, but only because I remember Straight throwing Burns and Newton to the wolves a couple of decades ago. And I remember all the infighting between Art Barker and Straight.

No honor among thieves.

 

The weavers of linen and hempen cloth, ... may exercise their trades without paying any fine.
-- Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (chapter X, part II) notes:

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Joyce Harris

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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2005, 03:42:00 PM »
What is that suppose to mean?

Do you then believe Ginger, that these children who are saying they were abused are WWASP people, or something?

That statement makes no sense to me, or probably to any parent who has children who are alleging abuse by the Sudweeks.

Who is "throwing the Sudweeks to the wolves?" People have valid complaints OTHER THAN THE ABUSE ISSUE TOO---the education issue, the therapy issues, the health issues, the lack of supervision. I don't think parents need anyone from WWASP or anywhere else to point these issues out to them. Most of us don't even know anyone from WWASP,and don't care to.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2005, 04:31:00 PM »
Why not ask Mark Sudweeks and Sue Scheff about WWASP and if either of them feel that WWASP may be "throwing the Sudweeks to the wolves." Mark Sudweeks and Sue Scheff have connections to WWASP. Scheff use to refer kids to WWASP programs, and it's been posted that Mark Sudweeks was connected money-wise at least to New Hope Academy down in the islands with his friend STEVE...a WWASP program.  They know more about making money with WWASP than lots of people.  I think maybe the Sudweeks just might be the "wolves" themselves....
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2005, 04:41:00 PM »
Just wondering why the Suds and kids think the local authorities all hate them while Mark Wardle is getting a new license.

If you haven't looked into it, do look into the death of Ian August at Skyline Journey. There's a whole lot of material on that on this site, including a pretty detailed account in an appeals ruling.

Whatever bad blood there may be between the Utah authorities and the Suds, it's probably not just because they may be abusing kids. The Utah authorities have demonstrated over and over again that they either approve of or don't care about child abuse.

So it must be something else. And what I'm trying to explain is that I've seen something very similar to this before. When The Seed came under scrutiny and lost their federal expansion funding, Straight, Inc. sprang up in their place claiming to have solved all those awful problems w/ The Seed. Then when Straight came under fire, they held up Miller Newton and Hugh Burns as the bad guys, kicked them to the curb and pretended that that had solved all their problems. 10 years later and many investigations and lawsuites later, finally the last Straight, Inc. branch in St. Pete closed down. All the other branches just changed their names (pretty much the way Mark Wardle has changed his program name from Skyline Journey to Distant Drummer) and continued on, business as usual.

So now Whitmore seems to be at odds w/ the authorities. Or maybe not. The investigation may well turn out to be yet another Utah whitewash.
But if it does turn out to be real and if the authorities do actually run them out of town, I wouldn't take that to mean that Utah has turned over a new leaf and we can all quit worrying about the thousands of kids held against their will in Utah programs. I would expect it to turn out more like the way I've seen it happen before. They may have to find another location or something. And there will be them others pointing to Whitmore as "the problem" that has now been solved and pretending to be oh so much better than that. But it won't be true.

Does that make sense? Call me jaded, I've been called worse (hell, probably within the last hour or two) but I really have to take it w/ a grain of salt when I hear about a Utah investigation into child abuse.



I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.  Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2005, 04:49:00 PM »
Mean ole people picking on the nice Suds. How dare them! But, if they pull up and move, they can't hide. Not for long.
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Offline Joyce Harris

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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2005, 04:54:00 PM »
I still have confidence that the Nephi Police, and the authorities in Utah will continue to do their investigations, and that their cases will move forward. As they explain to our family, criminal investigations take time, and their investigations have only been going on since the latter part of November 2004. That is less than 4 months, and is not a long time for these things.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2005, 04:55:00 PM »
I understand what your saying (I think) but I can't see how wwasp has anything to do with the Whitmore situation.  
If Bob fired King Kay and said he was the problem  -  wouldn't that be more in line with what you thinking of?  
As for who Utah looks upon with favor - I'd guess it has a lot to do with cash flow, and not much else.

[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-03-15 13:58 ]
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2005, 05:28:00 PM »
I think it's cash flow AND ideology w/ a solid base in local 'community standards'.

Here's my reasoning. Someone suggested awhile back that the only reason WWASP can skate after all the abuse complaints and investigations is because they're so politically connected. The implication was that the Suds are up a creek because they're not so well connected. Maybe that's so, maybe it isn't.

Personally, I don't have all that much faith in the local authorites to do the right thing here. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. But it seems to me that if they're going to nail them for all the right reasons then they'd have to nail them for a good many things that WWASPS does all the time. (BTW, I can't remember, is Wardle still closely affiliated w/ WWASPS or not?)

Seems more likely to me that, if they spank the Suds for anything, it'll be for things that WWASPS claims makes them different. See what I mean?

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another; shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2005, 10:16:00 PM »
Well, according to the Sudweeks "spokes people here" they say everybody from the Nephi Police down "just hates them"....so who knows, maybe there will be a case against them. I doubt if the Police or authorties have any personal feelings about these people one way or the other. They seem like the type of people that just say they are "persecuted" every time they get caught doing wrong.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2005, 04:08:00 AM »
:eek: just food for thought here. but in response to why the investigation is dragging on slowly. could be that nephi a town with previous polygamy history in the tom green case. this went on for some time in this small town where everybody knows everybody. maybe in order to get away with polygamy you need a small community where everyone is of the same fundamental belief system. if these speculations are true then the political powers might not be interested in having a trial that would certainly draw outside interests ie the media attention on their small town and the way of life they hide from others. not saying any of this is true just food for thought!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2005, 10:24:00 AM »
Could be, but Samanatha Hayes KSL (NBC) of Salt Lake City is doing a follow up story---so it will continue to get media attention.
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