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Author Topic: It is ok to relapse  (Read 26213 times)

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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2009, 11:31:55 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
Any AARColytes have an explanation for the blatant series of lies spun by Herard in order to beg more money and support for AARC?
"Mr. Speaker, in 2005 an evaluation of the AARC program was
conducted by a noted addiction program evaluation authority, Dr.
Michael Patton, PhD. He studied and interviewed 100 consecutive
cases and found that 85 per cent of the graduates were still clean and
sober after five years."

The study was conducted by AARColytes. Patton states very clearly that he did not interview the graduates. The study claimed that only 48% of grads reported that they were still clean and sober since graduation. There is no figure given in the study indicating how many of the grads were still clean and sober after five years. Just that mean time since graduation of just over two years, after which only 48% were still reportedly clean and sober.

I can't decide if that's three lies or four.

Would you AARColytes consider this statement to entail three lies or four? I'm torn.

Come on fellas! Joel, Joshy, Mr. Garrison, even you Joanne! Can't one of you come up with something to say about this blatant deception of the people of Alberta on behalf of your church?

Look at the study Ajax!!!  Read it!!!  Its all there.  All this time and you still havent read it!
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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #136 on: March 07, 2009, 11:37:35 PM »
Jeeesh, Ajax, forget about what everyones says or different peoples interpretions, even your own with your mean time of 5 years (where did that come from?).  When you are unsure about what was concluded go back to the study and reread it.

The success rate is still 85% no matter what anyones says or how you try to spin it.  Go look at the study!!!  Its all there
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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #137 on: March 07, 2009, 11:51:16 PM »
AARC Outcome Study

85% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 4 years
93% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 12 months
52% of all graduates have had at least one relapse since graduating.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2009, 12:12:03 AM »
Ajax, you should be the last one to critisize others on interpreting the study.  You havent been able to understand any of it and every figure you reference is wrong.  Where is that mean time of 5 years again?  Do you live in a glass house by chance?
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Offline psy

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #139 on: March 08, 2009, 08:17:34 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
AARC Outcome Study

85% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 4 years
93% of all graduates are still living a clean and sober life after 12 months
52% of all graduates have had at least one relapse since graduating.

The CBC blew all sorts of holes in your little "study", including the fact that it wasn't really independent.
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2008-2009/power ... study.html
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #140 on: March 08, 2009, 08:40:35 AM »
Actually it was viewed as "not a bad study" by some and a "good study" by others.  It was also viewed as a semi-independent study, so some could classify it as independent since they brought in outside people from Hazelden to crunch the data and others would view it as not an independent study because the interviews were conducted by AARC people.  Depends on the point of view.
The CBC also pointed out (Cleared up) that only those who completed their time at AARC were included in the study, which showed consistency within the population.  This was argued earlier on here at fornits.  Ajax has started to come around in understanding the report and the fifth estate has helped there a bit I think in the areas of involvement, outcome and adding credibility to the study.
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Offline psy

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2009, 08:46:43 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Actually it was viewed as "not a bad study" by some and a "good study" by others.

Others?  Whom?  TheWho?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #142 on: March 08, 2009, 08:53:42 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
Actually it was viewed as "not a bad study" by some and a "good study" by others.

Others?  Whom?  TheWho?

Fifth Estate:

....Hodgins described the study as “not a bad program evaluation,......”

.....Patton said that while the study was a good preliminary “internal evaluation” with positive results, the next step would be to review AARC’s success rate independently.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2009, 11:15:40 AM »
Reading along here, Ajax, I don’t blame anyone for not responding to you.  You have refused to have a discussion with anyone on this board.  You have just attacked peoples weight conditions, college background whether or not they played hockey, making up mocking names for people etc.  You have not responded to questions posed to you regarding the issues and the study.  I agree with the other posters thoughts that you have not even read the study based on your knowledge of it.  If you read thru it and looked at the tables you would be able to save yourself a lot of grief and embarrassment.
Now I read that you are pointing fingers at someone who misquoted the study’s results or misread them while at the same time you are doing it yourself and you don’t have a grasp on the studys results.  Watching your hatred and ridicule I am probably in the majority when I say I side with AARCs responses (or pro AARCs) when it comes to credible information here.  They are atleast less defamatory and stick to the facts for discussion.
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Offline anonAARCgrad

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #144 on: March 08, 2009, 12:03:00 PM »
It is clear that the "Patton" study was not his, it iwas AARC's. It is light weight preliminary survey and in no way a credible outcome study. I am pleased people are starting to review this as well as the response from Patton to the Fifth Estate. AARC has used this "study" to garner support both politically and from donors. I used it myself when I supported AARC - then I ran the numbers and based on my own experience with hundreds of graduates, I know the statistic to be completely false.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #145 on: March 08, 2009, 01:04:58 PM »
Quote from: "anonAARCgrad"
It is clear that the "Patton" study was not his, it iwas AARC's. It is light weight preliminary survey and in no way a credible outcome study. I am pleased people are starting to review this as well as the response from Patton to the Fifth Estate. AARC has used this "study" to garner support both politically and from donors. I used it myself when I supported AARC - then I ran the numbers and based on my own experience with hundreds of graduates, I know the statistic to be completely false.


Thats great that you took an interest, especially as a graduate.  Patton has said himself that it is a good evaluation and I am sure he stands by his calculations.  If you have some numbers to present please feel free to post them here.  AARC has presented their data, there is no reason you should hold back your study.
The study stands on its own merit and has sparked much interest in the AARC model and success.  I believe any study is worthwhile looking at and I look forward to reviewing your results.
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Offline ajax13

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #146 on: March 08, 2009, 01:25:17 PM »
Always funny to watch AARColyte latch onto a false bit of information and run with it.  The American pedophile planted the notion that I had stated that the study showed a mean-time since graduation of 5 years, which of course I did not.
"The mean time since graduation was just over 2 years, not 5, and only 48%, not 85%, reported being still sober since graduation."  The figure of 5 years was taken from Herard's lie.  Herard does not state that it is a mean time, I used that term since it is the only time frame applicable to the rate of continuous sobriety used in the study:
"Mr. Speaker, in 2005 an evaluation of the AARC program was
conducted by a noted addiction program evaluation authority, Dr.
Michael Patton, PhD. He studied and interviewed 100 consecutive
cases and found that 85 per cent of the graduates were still clean and
sober after five years."
Yet the AARColytes picked up the disinfo and puked it up, the way they puke up the 80% success rate, which is purely subjective and ignores the relapse rate shown in the study, 52% after a mean of two years and a bit.

Again, AARColytes, try and address the very blatant lies, and let's get a consesnsus on whether or not there are three or four distinct lies in this con used on the tax-payers.

Can't wait to see you guys at the top of the hill.  What's it called again, Turd Mountain?
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #147 on: March 08, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »
Quote
The mean time since graduation was just over 2 years, not 5

So where the 5 is referenced?  You keep indicating that people are lying or misreading the study.  Show us where the study shows a "mean time of 5 years" which you are disputing.  You are having trouble reading the study and you dont know what you are talking about, again, Ajax.

Reference the point in the study which you dispute
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Offline ajax13

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #148 on: March 08, 2009, 01:55:40 PM »
At no time did I state or even imply that the study showed a mean time of 5 years, in fact I stated quite clearly that the study did not show this figure.   Why are you repeatedly asking me where this figure was shown in the study, when I have stated that it is not shown in the study?   As you know that the figure is not in the study, since you have been posting about the study since the summer time, then your question is not intended to illicit an answer, the question itself is a deception.  Silly old pedophile.

Still no AARColytes willing to comment directly on Herard's lies?  I'm still trying to get a consensus on whether or not there are three lies or four lies being used to steal from the tax-payers on behalf of AARC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline TheWho

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Re: It is ok to relapse
« Reply #149 on: March 08, 2009, 02:10:09 PM »
Quote from: "ajax13"
The mean time since graduation was just over 2 years, not 5
You are infering that there was an indication of a mean time of 5 years.  I didnt read where anyone said this.  You seem to always be putting words in peoples mouths.  I can cut you a reference of where you said this if you like.

There was no reference to a mean time of 5 years.  Can you clear this up?
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