The Origin of All this was The Seed

[Anonymous]

Maybe she's just got the guts to tell the truth.  The fact that you're so deeply involved in XA  has somthing to do with that.  I've had many conversations with Ginger and she seems like one of the well-adjusted people on here.

[Thom]

On 2005-10-24 21:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maybe she's just got the guts to tell the truth.  The fact that you're so deeply involved in XA  has somthing to do with that.  I've had many conversations with Ginger and she seems like one of the well-adjusted people on here. "

If your perception is that she is telling the truth, then it naturally follows that she seems like one of the (most?) well adjusted people on here to you. By her own admission, she is an accomplished 'seemer'

[Thom]

On 2005-10-24 17:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"Point is, if you had not believed that one drink would set you on an inexorable path to an undignified early death, it probably wouldn't have."

It obviously didn't.

So, like, you think the whole powerless thing is a myth? Remember that concept next time you feel a diarrhea attack coming on. Try: If I will it away, it won't happen. Or, if I make less trips to the toilet I'll be OK.

Ever puke from drinking? If so, did you ever drink again? If so, why?

[Antigen]

No, Thom. It's just that I don't eat shit. Not from anybody. Sure, when held captive by a few hundred violent lunatics, I can pretend almost anything to avoid conflict. But it's different with you guys. I can walk away and I don't want anything less than an authentic relationship. So there's no need for pretense.

I might have bought your line, too, that it's all me. Except that Bill's been around and he's an extremely good listener. I may be a little too deaf to hear just what you were saying till I walked into the room. But Bill's not. Bro, you have no idea how close you came to having your nose rearranged in Atlanta. He never did tell me what the joke was that he'd found so offensive. Just that it was time to go, NOW!

I've never heard anyone refer to you as an addict, hopeless or otherwise, and ironically,...

Bullshit. At Grandma's funeral, every time anybody asked where I was, you quipped "probably off smoking crack". Or did Babe just make that up? That old Babe, always playing tricks, huh?  :roll:

But you seem to think I'm supposed to just lay down and take whatever kind of insulting, cruel bullshit you hand down. And if I don't, why then I'm being obnoxious and ungrateful! God, I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Loie suggested I should settle my whole problem w/ that real estate transaction just by being more grateful.

How's that $32,000 tools shed coming along, btw?

Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be.  We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-25 02:02:00, Thom wrote:




So, like, you think the whole powerless thing is a myth?

Yes.

Remember that concept next time you feel a diarrhea attack coming on. Try: If I will it away, it won't happen. Or, if I make less trips to the toilet I'll be OK.

Well, diarrhea is different. It's actually a physical mallady. It's not a choice. Sometimes the cause can be volitional. Say, if ever time you eat at Wendy's you get the trotts, then you have a choice; don't eat at Wendy's.

Ever puke from drinking? If so, did you ever drink again? If so, why?"

Cause it's fun! LOL! And, much to your chagrin, I'm sure, I learned to moderate my drinking so that I don't wind up calling Earl in Europe.

How come it's OK for Kathi and Jim to get trashed on their birthday, but if I pick up a beer, everyone starts whispering? I mean, I've never been so foolish as to get very drunk around you guys. That's another rule of thumb of mine; never, ever get drunk to the point of being vulnerable around people you can't trust!

Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-10-25 02:02:00, Thom wrote:

"

On 2005-10-24 17:55:00, Antigen wrote:


"Point is, if you had not believed that one drink would set you on an inexorable path to an undignified early death, it probably wouldn't have."

It obviously didn't.



So, like, you think the whole powerless thing is a myth? Remember that concept next time you feel a diarrhea attack coming on. Try: If I will it away, it won't happen. Or, if I make less trips to the toilet I'll be OK.



Ever puke from drinking? If so, did you ever drink again? If so, why?"

You don't choose to have diarrhea unless you eat or drink something that you know will cause diarrhea.  So in most cases, you avoid that stuff.  If I know Taco Bell gives me the squits, I avoid the place.  I'm not powerless over Taco Bell.

Going back to booze - if ya know that if you have three drinks, You'll  be utterly blotto, and wake up feeling like shit, then drink one or two.

Yes, I know that a buzz makes you feel really good and invincible - but when you're over thirty (maybe twenty-five) - and you've experienced waking up naked in strange places a few times, you know you limits, and you stay within them.  

"Powerlessness" is bullshit.  Here's one for you: you choose to be powerless!

So you choose to put your power into a dude who tells you you're powerless?  Whose power are you under now?





_________________
Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-10-25 11:28 ]

[Anonymous]

http://orange-papers.org/orange-cult_a0.html

http://orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html

1. The Guru is always right.
2. You are always wrong.
3. No Exit.
4. No Graduates.
5. Cult-speak.
6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
7. Irrationality.
8. Suspension of disbelief.
9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions...
10. Personal attacks on critics.
11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.
12. The cult and its members are special.
13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
14. Unquestionable Dogma, Sacred Science, and Infallible Ideology.
15. Indoctrination of members.
16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.
17. Instant Community.
18. Instant Intimacy.
19. Surrender To The Cult.
20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
22. The cult is self-absorbed.
23. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
24. Aggressive Recruiting.
25. Deceptive Recruiting.
26. No Humor.
27. You Can't Tell The Truth.
28. Cloning -- You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.
30. The End Justifies The Means.
31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
32. Different Levels of Truth.
33. Newcomers can't think right.
34. The Cult Implants Phobias.
35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
36. Confession Sessions.
37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.
38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
39. Mentoring.
40. Intrusiveness.
41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader.
42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers.
43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.
44. Dispensed existence
45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
48. Mystical Manipulation
49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.
50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust
51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.
52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes
54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
55. Belief equals truth
56. Use of double-binds
57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.
58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.
59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
62. Flexible, shifting morality
63. Separatism
64. Inability to tolerate criticism
65. A Charismatic Leader
66. Calls to Obliterate Self
67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.
68. Don't Feel Your Feelings.
69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.
70. You Owe The Group.
71. We Have The Panacea.
72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings
74. Trance-Inducing Practices
75. New Identity -- Redefinition of Self -- Revision of Personal History
76. Membership Rivalry
77. True Believers
78. Scapegoating and Excommunication
79. Promised Powers or Knowledge
80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies.
81. Hypocrisy
82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.
83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
84. You can't make it without the cult.
85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider
86. The cult wants to own you.
87. Channelling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information.
88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
89. Demands For Compliance With The Group
90. Newcomers Need Fixing.
91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
93. Black And White Thinking
94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.
98. Making cult members work long hours for free.
99. Total immersion and total isolation.
100. Mass suicide.
Bibliography








To go back and forth between the questions and the answers for Alcoholics Anonymous, click on the numbers of the questions and answers.

[Anonymous]

http://orange-papers.org/orange-powerless.html

[Anonymous]

http://orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

Nothing could be further from the truth. Even the most ardent true believers who will be honest about it recognize that A.A. and N.A. have at least 90% failure rates. And the real numbers are more like 95% or 98% or 100% failure rates. It depends on who is doing the counting, how they are counting, and what they are counting or measuring.

A 5% success rate is nothing more than the rate of spontaneous remission in alcoholics and drug addicts. That is, out of any given group of alcoholics or drug addicts, approximately 5% per year will just wise up, and quit killing themselves.6 They just get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and of watching their friends die. (And something between 1% and 3% of their friends do die annually, so that is a big incentive.) They often quit with little or no official treatment or help. Some actually detox themselves on their own couches, or in their own beds, or locked in their own closets. Often, they don't go to a lot of meetings. They just quit, all on their own, or with the help of a couple of good friends who keep them locked up for a few days while they go through withdrawal. A.A. and N.A. true believers insist that addicts can't successfully quit that way, but they do, every day.

[Anonymous]

"

On 2005-10-24 17:55:00, Antigen wrote:


"Point is, if you had not believed that one drink would set you on an inexorable path to an undignified early death, it probably wouldn't have."

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:
<

So, like, you think the whole powerless thing is a myth? Remember that concept next time you feel a diarrhea attack coming on. Try: If I will it away, it won't happen. Or, if I make less trips to the toilet I'll be OK.

Dude, you just blew any credibility you had with that statement.

[Napolean Bonafart]

Bottoming out and a good doctor is all anyone needs to want to quit. Once you bottom out. Things are different. It's like a mid-life crisis choice. I choose to not drink, but I take medicine.

Give me the youth, and Germany will rule the world.
--Hitler

[Napolean Bonafart]

Bottoming out and a good doctor is all anyone needs to want to quit. Once you bottom out. Things are different. It's like a mid-life crisis choice. I choose to not drink, but I take medicine.

Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

_________________
"thank you peanut gallery"

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-25 02:02:00, Thom wrote:





Ever puke from drinking? If so, did you ever drink again? If so, why?"

Ever puke from eating?  If so, why did you ever eat again?  Maybe you are an Overeater, Thom.  Remember, complete abstinance is the only way.

[Antigen]

If you go hiking and get sore muscles, would you abstain from walking?

Nothing of value to the individual happens by coercion.

--Plato

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-12 19:55:00, 90's Guy wrote:

"Did u guys know that Peterman was a Seed volunteer Mom in the early 70's. That is where she started. She then started working at Straight, but all the ideas came from The Seed. That is where I went to The Seed. The ideas at Growing Together and Life were not from Straight. They were from The Seed, who originated the whole concept, even Moral Inventories."

  This is true.  Have to laugh thinking back to her response when kids would FLICK her off.  NO, she didn't man-handle, slap or pull their hair.  She would simply smile and say "Well at least it's out of your ass and in the air!