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Author Topic: The Origin of All this was The Seed  (Read 14459 times)

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Offline Antigen

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2005, 01:18:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 21:03:00, 90's Guy wrote:

"See what you odo not realize is that u were all a part of a copy cat program, not the real thing."


There's another way to look at it. The Seed was a failure and Staight, Life, GT, Phoenix House and Daytop were successful. The difference is only that the later programs were able to tow the line while still garnering federal, state and local grants while The Seed floundered as an obscure, little attended cult.

Art had a big heart and good intentions. I'll grant him that. But he had NO concept whatever of the actual effect he had on real people. It was all about the praise and adulation for him. NIDA didn't offer him that. He had to be a beggaring servant to climb that laddar. He would't do that. Mel and Mickey and Helen and George did.

Don't think I don't give Art credit where due. He was, afterall, a childhood hero of mine. But part of growing up is about auditing all those old accounts. Art gets A+ for good intentions and effort, 0 for followthrough. Shit, by the time I was 14 or so I knew the difference between coerced adulation and genuine respect! What the fuck was wrong w/ Art??

Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.



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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2005, 01:24:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 22:10:00, Thom wrote:

"let me get this Straight....it was the Seed that begat Straight, which begat LIFE. Helen Peterman was a Seed parent, then on staff at Straight before she formed LIFE with George Ross. Just exactly how did Peterman and Ross form LIFE?

Who the hell really knows?  Word is that Ross was disenchanted with Miller - Netwon's "shenanigans" (I think that's a quote) and decided to try something different.  No, I wasn't in the Seed nor Straight, but I did run into someone from Straight Stoughton years later, and our stories were the same.  And in reading about the Seed, anyone can connect the dots.

Quote
Did the Seed come Straight from Ross, and were their spouses aware of the relationship?

Say WHAT?

Quote
If Ross' Seed begat Straight's LIFE, how then did Art's charisma and AA/CEDU/etc. spawn the original Seed's LIFE Straight from Ross' Seed?

Oh man, it IS late!  Or that second glass of wine was too much!  "Seed's LIFE Straight"???? Aieeeee!


Quote
 I just hope Peterman and Ross dealt Straight with their formation of Life in their moral inventories (which, by the way, pre-dates The Seed by either approx. 1900 years (Bible), or around 40 years(AA), depending on how you believe, believe it or not. Not Peterman, Ross or Art, but the art of moral inventory taking, that is) And that's the Straight stuff.

 ::argue::
"


I'm truly not getting your meaning here... or the last paragraph (aieeeee!)  My God - don't DO this to me while I'm enjoying my grapes! :grin:

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"I was a long time coming
I'll be a long time gone
you've got your whole life to do something
and that's not very long"

- Ani DiFranco[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-12 22:34 ]
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Anonymous

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2005, 01:25:00 AM »
here we go again.  do NOT say anything about these programs UNLESS it's negative, hateful or crude.  this is the guideline of this forum.  if you dare state anything other than the programs were abuse-filled, harmful and evil, you WILL BE SHOT down IMMEDIATELY - NO questions asked.

 talk about cults :exclaim:
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Offline Anonymous

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2005, 01:28:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 22:24:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-02-12 22:10:00, Thom wrote:


"let me get this Straight....it was the Seed that begat Straight, which begat LIFE. Helen Peterman was a Seed parent, then on staff at Straight before she formed LIFE with George Ross. Just exactly how did Peterman and Ross form LIFE?




Who the hell really knows?  Word is that Ross was disenchanted with Miller - Netwon's "shenanigans" (I think that's a quote) and decided to try something different.  No, I wasn't in the Seed nor Straight, but I did run into someone from Straight Stoughton years later, and our stories were the same.  And in reading about the Seed, anyone can connect the dots.



Quote

Did the Seed come Straight from Ross, and were their spouses aware of the relationship?




Say WHAT?



Quote

If Ross' Seed begat Straight's LIFE, how then did Art's charisma and AA/CEDU/etc. spawn the original Seed's LIFE Straight from Ross' Seed?




Oh man, it IS late!  Or that second glass of wine was too much!  "Seed's LIFE Straight"???? Aieeeee!





Quote

  I just hope Peterman and Ross dealt Straight with their formation of Life in their moral inventories (which, by the way, pre-dates The Seed by either approx. 1900 years (Bible), or around 40 years(AA), depending on how you believe, believe it or not. Not Peterman, Ross or Art, but the art of moral inventory taking, that is) And that's the Straight stuff.


 ::argue::

"




I'm truly not getting your meaning here... or the last paragraph (aieeeee!)  I swear... it was only two glasses of wine! :grin:
"



 uummmm - it's called HUMOR.  hello?!
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2005, 01:36:00 AM »
Quote
uummmm - it's called HUMOR.  hello?!"


Hello!  I knew that! (Just checking!)  :grin:

_________________
"I was a long time coming
I'll be a long time gone
you've got your whole life to do something
and that's not very long"

- Ani DiFranco[ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-12 22:38 ][ This Message was edited by: ~-=Sara=-~ on 2005-02-12 22:41 ]
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Helena Handbasket

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2005, 01:37:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 22:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

" here we go again.  do NOT say anything about these programs UNLESS it's negative, hateful or crude.  this is the guideline of this forum.  if you dare state anything other than the programs were abuse-filled, harmful and evil, you WILL BE SHOT down IMMEDIATELY - NO questions asked.



 talk about cults :exclaim: "


Oh Hi, Darren... didn't see you there.  Welcome! :grin:
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Antigen

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2005, 02:00:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 21:40:00, ~-=Sara=-~ wrote:

"You know what?  

OR



The fact that there are now 30 years worth of devotees and apologists for methods that have been proved harmful, and still propogate in yet larger numbers, messing up even more lives.... and the people that don't regard their lives as hindered by these people, are simply unable to think for themselves - effectively becoming drones.



Thank you, but I'm HAPPY to be a "cop out"!
"


Oh, don't worry about that. Most of us have come to terms w/ wtf chewed us up and spit us out. There are only a rare few who view the whole thing as the light of salvation. Even the ppl sitting next to them in the pew or the cop who lives accross the street think they're strange.

Just read up on Don Smith's recount of what it was like to be a staff trainee at Straight. He's a good guy and always reminded me of my brother. I think that's why I always liked him so much. He's square and honest as the day is long. He'll always tell you the truth as he sees it. So will Thom, as he sees it.


Forgiveness is divine. Forgetfulness is just a mental dysfunction.
--Antigen

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Offline Helena Handbasket

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2005, 02:05:00 AM »
Quote

Just read up on Don Smith's recount of what it was like to be a staff trainee at Straight. He's a good guy and always reminded me of my brother. I think that's why I always liked him so much. He's square and honest as the day is long. He'll always tell you the truth as he sees it. So will Thom, as he sees it.


Is that "Why Staff Relapse"?  I just read that.  Very Scarenteresting.
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline GregFL

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2005, 11:02:00 AM »
Darren, time to read up on what a cult is.

If this was an anti program "cult"....well, you would not be allowed to associate with us.

educate yourself and you will be able to get your point across in a much more credible way. erroneous criticism just isn't effective.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2005, 09:10:00 AM »
LIFER HERE

BELIEVE IT WAS 1990-1991. ALTOGETHER THERE ABOUT NINETEEN MONTHES. STILL CONFUSED BY THAT EXPERIENCE BUT OVERALL I THINK IT WAS BETTER THAN NOT GOING AT ALL.  i WOULD LIKE TO THINK THE OLD LADY PETE CARED. HER BELLOWING TRUMPET VOICE STILL RINGS IN MY HEAD. MY NAME IS SEAN. I WAS PART OF THE CHARLESTON CREW. MY GOOD FRIEND THAT WAS THERE WITH ME FOR A TIME (JOHN HYLAND-ALSO FROM CHARLESTON) DIED FROM A DUI. WE ENJOYED TALKING ABOUT THE LIFE EXPERIENCE IN THOSE EARLIER DAYS. sOMETIMES IT ALMOST SEEMS THAT THE FLORIDA TRIP NEVER REALLY OCCURRED -BUT FOR A TIME, i NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD END. IF ANYONE CARES TO SHARE -MOTIVATE. SEAN
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2005, 08:30:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-21 06:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"LIFER HERE



BELIEVE IT WAS 1990-1991. ALTOGETHER THERE ABOUT NINETEEN MONTHES. STILL CONFUSED BY THAT EXPERIENCE BUT OVERALL I THINK IT WAS BETTER THAN NOT GOING AT ALL.  i WOULD LIKE TO THINK THE OLD LADY PETE CARED. HER BELLOWING TRUMPET VOICE STILL RINGS IN MY HEAD. MY NAME IS SEAN. I WAS PART OF THE CHARLESTON CREW. MY GOOD FRIEND THAT WAS THERE WITH ME FOR A TIME (JOHN HYLAND-ALSO FROM CHARLESTON) DIED FROM A DUI. WE ENJOYED TALKING ABOUT THE LIFE EXPERIENCE IN THOSE EARLIER DAYS. sOMETIMES IT ALMOST SEEMS THAT THE FLORIDA TRIP NEVER REALLY OCCURRED -BUT FOR A TIME, i NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD END. IF ANYONE CARES TO SHARE -MOTIVATE. SEAN "


Forgive me for not motivating.  I don't consider LIFE a great place to come from.  Maybe you can give us a different perspective?
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Offline Jeannine

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2005, 01:55:00 AM »
John Hyland kept running. They had put him back in after a relapse in Charleston. He hated it there. Iwas on staff at the time. I chased after him. He was so desperate not to go back. I wish I would not have let him run.I still think about him and those days often.
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t\'s my LIFE!! \'91

Offline Thom

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2005, 03:00:00 AM »
can't save them all. Sorry to hear about his tragic death.
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Offline Thom

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2005, 03:04:00 AM »
I lost a few friends back then to drugs and alcohol related death. Some were'nt even in the Seed, so they had to work extra hard to become suicidal without help. Sarcasm.
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Offline Thom

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The Origin of All this was The Seed
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2005, 03:05:00 AM »
Which Charleston was that, anyway?
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