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Author Topic: The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?  (Read 42008 times)

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Offline SteveHHMD

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2005, 08:15:00 AM »
for Marshall

Dear Marshall,
I appreciate your faith in my constitution to survive what I was going through.  I do have friends who died.  One was murdered in a scam drug deal.   Another died in a motorcycle wreck (stoned?  I don't know.) One of my oldcomers from the Seed I believe is still in prison for some horrible crime he did that his mother wouldn't elaborate on. (Could this have been due to the nefarious effect of the Seed on him?)
Anyway, I don't know.  I have very mixed feelings...  I've always thought the degree of control the Seed had over me was inappropriately intense.   However, I can't get past the fact that the Seed saved my life.  I think it's analagous to the drowning man who had to be hit over the head to be saved.
This site is so polarized.  I wonder if the dividing line isn't between those whom the Seed helped and those whom it didn't.  I do believe that no one should suffer his entire life from some injustice inflicted years back.  We're built to survive.  No matter how bad any experience, what we do with it is up to ourselves.  I would encourage anyone here holding on to bitterness to let it go.  If you are trying to spare someone else from damage that had been inflicted on you, I think that's a noble pursuit.  But I wouldn't hold personal bitterness.  It will only hurt you worse.
This may be my last post.  I've appreciated the contact.  "I love you!"
Best wishes to all,
Steve
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Offline cleveland

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2005, 09:34:00 AM »
Dr. Steve,

I have enjoyed reading your posts. I think I am a fairly typical Seed kid of the period 1979-1985. I signed myself in; I had used drugs but wasn't hard core - the reason I joined was because someone I knew proceeded me (my brother) who came out proclaiming a 'miracle,' - I was insecure enough to buy in; I initially resisted but ended up buying in to the Seed's mix of telling me what a loser I was and how much I need to get straight to help others; for both of those reasons I 'stuck around' for some years after, until finally leaving due to the lack of freedom. I DID lose friends to drugs; but others who I left behind have had typical lives, some more successful than others.

I don't blame the Seed; I don't love the Seed. My memories of it are intense, and I did come to really care about many of the people there. Leaving was hard, but it was the best thing for me.

My problem with the Seed is that it is a flawed model; as they say, if the only tool you have is a hammer, than every problem looks like a nail. It is all built on the AA model, which relies on quasi religion and pseudo science. But that is what we have in America. Anyone who questions this model is assumed to be in favor of addiction! Like you, I drink in moderation; like you, I have friends who smoke pot and seem OK for it. I have family members who swear by AA; I have an alcoholic mother who I signed in for treatment at a hospital, against her will, because she was dying.

I hope you will keep posting here. I think all of us have important lessons to learn from one another. I think the Seed had potential to be great, potential that was wasted by the time the program ended. Why? If I question the Seed, it is not because I am a bitter failure, but because I think that we need to learn to do better. There are many Seed-like programs now. Some no doubt are better than others. But I do question the methods they have in common.

Finally, congrats on your baby. I too, at age 46, am a new dad. I too, went thru divorce and counseling. I want a better world for my daughter. I believe we will make our world better through reason, not through blind faith in programs, religion or what have you.

Best to you,

Walter
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ally Gator

Offline marshall

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2005, 11:08:00 AM »
I think most of us here have mixed feelings, Steve. The rest of what I was going to say is so similar to Wally's response to you that I'll just point and say: "Yeah, what he said." :smile: Including the congrats on the new baby. Take care.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2005, 02:34:00 AM »
Hey, Ya'll i been thinkin' 'bout this whithout even knowin' there was this thread but it kinda seems like the Seed did sucseed.  I mean just look at the socio-economic politico power structure ??  Is that not the Seed(Str8) ??  i am open.

Peace.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2005, 02:43:00 AM »
You know - the political parties - Democrats and Republicans.  Money.  Certain value attachments.  Social protocols. etc.,  

Authoritarian leadership disguised as democratic, while really bein' whored out and exploitive.  Bush is a Facsist Whore.  The White House cabinet is Executive Staff whores !!.

The Western-market economy is still based on slavery !!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline SMiamiPimp

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2005, 05:03:00 PM »
I definitely believe the Seed succeeded! There was plenty of fall out from my drug experience. The Seed was not perfect but I beleive it saved my life.

Also, as a follow up, I take responsbility for my life today. That doesnt mean I cant look at the experience I see the problems with Seed when I was there and how they affected me. When I do that the goal is an examination with the goal of continuing to develope and let go pass misconceptions and baggage which I still have plenty and only some of which came from the Seed expereince.

But bottom line, the see saved my life and the fallout I deal with now is small compared to the life I would have experienced if I had not attended.
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Offline Thom

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2005, 06:13:00 PM »
let me handle this one, guys Blah, Blah, typicalseedlingresponse Blah, stepcraft Yadda, Yadda, crystal ball Yadda, Blah, Blah, how do you know you would be deadinsainorinjail? Blah, Yadda, baggage smaggage Yadda, Yadda, Blah, you were never addicted to start with! Blah, Blah, Yadda,  art Barker nazi Yadda, Koreanmindcontrol Yadda, Blah, brainwashed Blah, Blah, brainwashed Yadda, torture young children Yadda, Yadda, wooden chairs 12 hours! Blah, Blah, define success! Blah, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda thankyousomuchforposting openforum Blah, Blah, Blah, yourexperienceisasvalidasours Yadda, Yadda, Yadda  :rofl:  :roll:
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2005, 06:15:00 PM »
Say what??????????? :???:  :???:  :???:  :???:
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Offline Thom

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2005, 06:20:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-04 15:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Say what??????????? :???:  :???:  :???:  :???: "

OK, so I'm not as experienced as some. I had to use a lot of filler words. I'll get the hang of it!
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2005, 06:48:00 PM »
With time you will get the hang of it.

 :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull:  :skull:
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2005, 06:59:00 PM »
I think I will close the shop early tonight and go home to that good pie.
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Offline Thom

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2005, 07:04:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-04 15:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think I will close the shop early tonight and go home to that good pie."

Hey, who can blame you?
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Offline GregFL

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2005, 08:30:00 PM »
Quote

On 2005-10-04 15:13:00, Thom wrote:

"let me handle this one, guys Blah, Blah, typicalseedlingresponse Blah, stepcraft Yadda, Yadda, crystal ball Yadda, Blah, Blah, how do you know you would be deadinsainorinjail? Blah, Yadda, baggage smaggage Yadda, Yadda, Blah, you were never addicted to start with! Blah, Blah, Yadda,  art Barker nazi Yadda, Koreanmindcontrol Yadda, Blah, brainwashed Blah, Blah, brainwashed Yadda, torture young children Yadda, Yadda, wooden chairs 12 hours! Blah, Blah, define success! Blah, Yadda, Yadda, Yadda thankyousomuchforposting openforum Blah, Blah, Blah, yourexperienceisasvalidasours Yadda, Yadda, Yadda  :rofl:  :grin:
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Offline ChrisL

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2005, 10:54:00 PM »
"you know Thom, you can 12 step your anger management problems as well.
Problem is, you get about the same percentage of success...zero."

Between the 2nd & 3rd year of my sobreity I found myself extremely angry, never really figured out why... just was. On the encouragement of my now x-wife I went to a BCSW & a Psychiatrist for about a year. I remember they both told me in different ways to move on, I did not want to hear it then, but I do remember I felt better... and then it seemed like in the 4th & 5th year I came to accept things as they were nothing more nothing less just what they were. It took me another 9 years to finally begin to make some changes & a Hurricane helped expidite the process alot...

But you know what? I am not angry, just thankful like we used to say, "every day above ground is a good day" & "I'd rather wake up with bad breath than no breath" anytime...
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hris Lewis
Seed 1973 -1975
AA 1991 -

Offline GregFL

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The Seed-------Did Art Barker succeed?
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2005, 11:29:00 PM »
Well Chris, lessons learned from that hurricane must be tough lessons, but I am sure you will endure.

you have an amazingly positive attitude!
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