Author Topic: earning the right to walk by yourself  (Read 7170 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2005, 01:30:00 PM »
I was there in '71 off and on til about '75. I don't recall being escorted to the bathroom. I think they may have pointed, and I remembered where it was the next time. I do recall those sandwiches though. PJ, and sometimes bologna and mayo. I still don't care for bologna, and that Jim Jones thing kinda ruined Koolaid for me.
     And now it's time for.... ::bigsmilebounce:: Seed Limo Trivia!  ::drummer::  The limo was previously owned by Jackie Gleason. I think it was donated. It was acquired for security reasons after Art had received some death threats from drug dealers. (The Seed was hurting their business) Art also had a nice sailboat/yacht which he had prior to The Seed, and an OUTSTANDING stereo system. Surround sound, with HUGE speakers. He took a few of us over to hear some big band music the way he used to hear it as a comic...right in the middle of it all.  He had made his money as a standup comic, and had a few small acting roles as well in his previous life.

Probably my fondest musical memory was when a few other Seedlings and I went to Disney World. We were in the cafeteria at 'Tomorrow Land', (I think that's what it is/was called) I heard some familiar music, and all of a sudden, the stage started rising, and out of the floor came Count Basie and his Orchestra! (one of my favorites) and I had no idea they were even playing there! I treasure that memory.
   
In the early '70's, the only period of time I'm sure about, The Seed would NOT accept Federal funding, because they didn't want to get sucked into the gub'mint system. For the most part, the Federal programs were ineffective, and Art knew if he accepted funding, there would be strings attached.
 
:nworthy:
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2005, 01:42:00 PM »
Welcome back (tom?) to Ging's brother.

Early 70s was when art was raking in all the major federal funding dough..only taking this moral highround position That he could do it without their influence and "strings"   when they required him to have "consent forms" signed indicating that the inductee was submitting to experimental treatment voluntarily.  so your memory isn't really correct there.

Also, Art CLAIMED to have made his money as a standup comedian professing he could make all the money he needed doing so. The St Pete times actually had the savey to check that claim out, went down and interviewed the miami playboy club and according to them discovered he was only a part time fill in and only was making about 3 grand a year being a comic.  Perhaps  Another "honesty is the most important rule" breach by the head honcho?

Many people don't remember the bathroom thing..but I assure you it was integral to the program at all locations..bathroom monitors and the whole shebang..during the time you were there. I know because one of my fondest memories of the seed was being bathroom monitor..preferring to smell shit instead of participating in rap.

I want to join you wishing Ginger a happy birthday. Welcome back again!

 Where the hell you been?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-30 10:30:00, Anonymous . It was acquired for security reasons after Art had received some death threats from drug dealers.

:wave: LORTY, LORTY, ANTIGEN IS 40! (tomorrow) Happy Birthday, Sis! :nworthy: "




A dubious claim at best. Sure people would call the seed with bomb threats and so forth but I don't think anything as ominous as "drug dealers getting their business harmed" was really a serious threat.

 I think he just wanted to be escorted around by a black guy...a la "driving Mrs. Daisy" style.


 :grin:
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Offline Antigen

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2005, 01:52:00 PM »
Thanks for the well wishes, guys.

I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision, to drain people of their free will--and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all. For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain.
--Gene Roddenberry, Creator of Star Trek

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2005, 02:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-30 08:11:00, GregFL wrote:

"It is also suspect that the seed started out one way, then wammo, got a cool million from Dupont, a rabid synanon supporter, became like the synanon for a couple years, then slowly went back to its original roots ( a goofy creepy cult).



I really would like to solve this puzzle....



"


I'm getting pretty well convinced that that's it. Dupont has stayed involved w/ Straight and the Semblers' cronnies to this day. Outside of Program circles, DuPont is known as Dr. Piss for his zealot advocacy of drug screening (which,in effect, is cannabis screening).

And the money and nepotism continues to flow to those programs that are most like Synanon. Daytop is one. Phoenix House is another. Anyone heard anything about Darryl Strawberry lately? I bet he's pretty thoroughly affected by now.

And, btw, I want to thank you all (all of you) once again for dropping in here and helping to fill in some of the blanks. I'm also much relieved to know that those of you who stayed involved for many years weren't subjected to the level of intensity and hostility that we who fell under the Synanon influenced program did for shorter spans. I honestly was worried about ya'll, ya' know? I'm glad it wasn't even 1/10th as bad as I had thought.

In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2005, 02:27:00 PM »
Yeah, but along with Dupont came these techniques. Who was responsible? Who imparted all these techniques to the group? Who taught Art?


John Underwood, calling John Underwood....I have some questions for you :grin:
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Offline marshall

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2005, 02:32:00 PM »
In 76 and 77 all newcomers still had to be escorted to the bathroom, though we weren't watched in the bathroom. I remember how glad I was when I got to go alone. Another wonderful perk / carrot for conforming and being a good little seedling.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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earning the right to walk by yourself
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2005, 03:11:00 PM »
Greg, Greg, Greg. JU went through the program just like everyone else.  You seem to still be stuck on this point.  Sorry Pal - there is no conection between JU and Synonon I repeat no conection.  I am sure of it.  Please move on here.
You are making me loose more hair than I already have lost over this one. Please trust me. :tup:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2005, 03:24:00 PM »
I came in 4/72 never saw a pink toilet.  I did however hear rumors of one though.   :eek:
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2005, 03:34:00 PM »
Greg, Dupont did not = techniques.  I was around long before any grant was given and "techniques" were the same.  Some minor adjustments were made here and there but thats about it. He wanted to help kids.  He lived by the rules.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2005, 03:37:00 PM »
And what I mean by adjustments = if something didn't work or was a little harsh it was stopped.
He obviously couldn't be everywhere and see everything.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2005, 03:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-01-30 12:11:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Greg, Greg, Greg. JU went through the program just like everyone else.


But who, other than you, remembers him being in group?

Look, ya gotta understand that a LOT of what we were told was total bullshit.

You probably read that nice note from my brother. (and, btw, I'm not ignoring you, Thom, I'm just a little surprised to hear from you and trying to make a thoughtful response, privately, later)

I remember very well Art's frequent rants about government funding and shrinks that don't know anything. I even remember the grown ups debating the pros and cons of government funding in the parking lot while we were all waiting for either permission to enter the open meeting room or for Group to be dismissed afterward (sometimes, it was hours!) And I remember hearing and fully believing (why wouldn't we?) that Art never accepted any public funding.

But I've seen copies of the grant and reference to it in reports by various very credible newspapers.

Guess what, that whole song and dance was made up out of whole cloth, like much of the rest of the Barker legend.

So just that former Seedlings believe that JU did his time on front row doesn't even approach the level of credible gossip.

Our family was around just about from the beginning. I remember John as a most intimidating presence on staff. But I don't ever remember him on front row. Maybe somebody does. Till they come forward, it's just another unanswered question.

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline marshall

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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2005, 06:39:00 PM »
Ft. Lauderdale: So you were at the seed before the grant? Wasn't that near the very beginning? If you are so sure about John going thru the program...does this mean you were witness to this? If so, just tell us. (I don't think there's any basis for concerns over breaking his anonymity since the seed is caput and everyone already knows who we are speaking of.)
Were you actively involved with the seed in the later years as well? (I know you moved to atlanta for awhile).

BTW, I think you should understand the basis for so many wild & varied theories about the connections to synanon and speculations associated with the inner workings of the seed. IMO, this stems from the secretive nature of the seed itself. What goes on here, stays here. No talking behind someone's back....and just the general lack of information given to the group as exemplified by that catch-all answer: "It's not important." Barring libby or art writing a tell-all book, there are many questions it seems we alumni will never know for sure. I doubt staff even knew all of this. Art probably figured it wasn't important for them to know.

I agree with you, antigen and others...art had good intentions and wanted to help kids. Of course, we have to remember what is said about the road to hell's source of pavement too. In some ways, art may have been a victim of his own creation. I'm not sure I could maintain a sense of perspective while being the object of veneration the way he was either. I imagine that it would be easy to finally accept that you really were special and have perfect awareness or whatever miraculous qualities people keep insisting upon. Lots of leaders, preachers and gurus fall prey to this sort of adoration.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2005, 07:34:00 PM »
see, here is the thing. Synanon style techniques existed from the beginning. The toilet seat around the neck, for example. Then along comes Dupon in early 73 with a million bucks..which was a lot of money back then. ALl of a sudden, the seed is a lockdown revolving door synanon. A short time later, the federal funds dry up, and the seed starts loosening up.

No one has explained this. In 73, the seed had a mean edge to it. You couldn't even let your back hit the seat or you got knuckles in the back and/or come down on. It was exhausting.

John may or may not be the key to this, but I sure would like to hear it from him. I have a vague memory of a rap where he said something to the affect that we didn't even know where all this came from and then he mentioned a name of another place and talked about how much harder and how the seed had so much love....it escapes me to this day.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2005, 07:54:00 PM »
It had to be a methadone clinic.  I lived with JU for about 1 & 1/2 years. No I was not around when he came in but I spoke to others that were definatly there and not staff. :exclaim:
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