G.T. Now

[Cayo Hueso]

It's not about blame.  It's about figuring out why I have dealt with life in a pretty fucked up manner.  I think that is directly attributed to the program.  Glad you had the support of your family when times were hard.  I didn't.  They were too busy spewing out program shit about how I was the cause of all the problems.  They shut the door on me when I left my husband for cocaine use and I had two kids to take care of.  I was trying to do the right thing but because I wouldn't go to AA I was a piece of shit.  This came DIRECTLY from the program.  

I'm not blaming the problems in my life on the program, I'm blaming them for setting me up to deal with those problems in a fucked up way.  I'm blaming them for taking my father away from me and my kids grandfather away from them.  I'm blaming them for the mindfuck they gave me in there that left me empty.  I'm blaming them for the mindfuck they did on my mother when she dared to question their practices.

Doesn't it strike you as the least bit odd that ALL of these people who were supposed to be "helped" and fixed by the beloved program are all, every one really fucked?  I mean they are graduates after all.  They've been pronounced "successful" by Mel and Betty.  I know quite a few grads.  Some have remained sober since getting out, some not but every one...EVERY ONE has some pretty heavy duty psychological damage.  Every one of those people I mentioned in my earlier post have been diagnosed with either PTSD or something similar and the diagnosing professionals DO attribute it DIRECTLY to their exposure to the little cult.  That's not to say that other things didn't add to the damage, but the ability to deal with those normal life experiences has been severely perverted.  THAT comes straight from MY diagnosing psychologist.

BTW...did you check out that link I sent you too?  What were your thoughts?  

The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries

[Cayo Hueso]

One more thing.  When your ENTIRE SUPPORT SYSTEM is made up of program thinking people or the aftermath of, it's very difficult to truly have free will.  If I questioned anything, I was out of my family.  That's a very powerful weapon.

I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer

[GregFL]

On 2005-01-30 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Cayo,



 And ALL of these problems, are 100% stemmed from a year or two of a program??  

The point again flies over your head.

THESE PROGRAMS DO NOT WORK. People fail at roughly the same rate whether they go thru a tc program or not.

In addition, they harm people and break up families.


Why support a broken promise, a failed system that requires locking people up and breaking them down, when there is no evidence anything of value comes from it?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-30 08:50:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:

"One more thing.  When your ENTIRE SUPPORT SYSTEM is made up of program thinking people or the aftermath of, it's very difficult to truly have free will.  If I questioned anything, I was out of my family.  That's a very powerful weapon

So is having to live under the constant threat that if you do something that your family considers to be stepping outside the lines of the program way of thinking, you're going to be dragged into court, yet again, to prove that you're not an unfit mother.

The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.
--Marquis de Sade, French libertine

[Anonymous]

"THAT comes straight from MY diagnosing psychologist."
wonder how much he's getting paid to tell ya that! :roll:

[Cayo Hueso]

wonder how much he's getting paid to tell ya that!

Not even a fraction of how much the program got paid to pronounce me an "addict" and keep me locked up for two years. :roll:  :roll:

Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw.
--Bastard Administrator

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-30 09:14:00, Cayo Hueso wrote:

"

wonder how much he's getting paid to tell ya that!

Not even a fraction of how much the program got paid to pronounce me an "addict" and keep me locked up for two years. :roll:  :roll:

Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw.
--Bastard Administrator

"

Which, btw, was done with a rubber stamp from a psychiatrist who NEVER EVEN MET ME.  Yet his signature appeared on my "treatment plan" as having diagnosed me as an "addict".

And now the liberals want to stop President Reagan from selling chemical warfare agents and military equipment to Saddam Hussein and why? Because Saddam 'allegedly' gassed a few Kurds in his own country. Mark my words. All of this talk of Saddam Hussein being a 'war criminal' or 'committing crimes against humanity' is the same old thing. LIBERAL HATE SPEECH! and speaking of poison gas... I SAY WE ROUND UP ALL THE DRUG ADDICTS AND GAS THEM TOO!
 
--Rush Limbaugh, November 3, 1988

[Anonymous]

On 2005-01-30 08:55:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-01-30 08:26:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Cayo,







 And ALL of these problems, are 100% stemmed from a year or two of a program??  

The point again flies over your head.



THESE PROGRAMS DO NOT WORK. People fail at roughly the same rate whether they go thru a tc program or not.



In addition, they harm people and break up families.





Why support a broken promise, a failed system that requires locking people up and breaking them down, when there is no evidence anything of value comes from it?









"

I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing...i went to thestraights.com and read all the suicides...but dont you think that maybe the lives of these people(some not all) were horrible before the program or maybe they had mental illness etc....i do however see the problem in a parent not having the child tested for mental illness or a psych evaluation done before just putting there kid in a program...thats wrong!...my parents spent years testing me for everything just to see if i was ok mentally...when i was ok then they determined that something else had to be done.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-01-30 09:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

""THAT comes straight from MY diagnosing psychologist."

wonder how much he's getting paid to tell ya that! :roll: "

A psychologist has standards to live up to, and rules that govern him/her by the APA.  The psychology community has rules and guidelines by which to diagnose and treat, and they have to abide by those rules.  Money isn't a deciding factor in a diagnosis, the criteria in the DSM is.  

Becoming a psychologist takes years of education and peer review.  One does not become a psychologist by being a parent, or hanging out a shingle and being self-appointed.

Think about it, if a self appointed "teacher" showed up at your kid's school, with no credentials, wouldn't you have a problem with that?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2005-01-30 09:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

...but dont you think that maybe the lives of these people(some not all) were horrible before the program or maybe they had mental illness etc....

Of course I don't deny that people may have had other problems or actual mental illnesses...that's part of this whole problem.  WTF do you think a program does to people who already do have these problems?  These places advertise themselves as pretty much a 'one stop shopping, fix-all" for almost anything.  I saw kids in there that were absolutely mentally ill.  Seriously, clinically out there.  But the program can fix anything, right??  Those are some of the kids that haunt my memory to this day.

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.
--John Adams, U.S. President

[Anonymous]

"i do however see the problem in a parent not having the child tested for mental illness or a psych evaluation done before just putting there kid in a program...thats wrong!...my parents spent years testing me for everything just to see if i was ok mentally...when i was ok then they determined that something else had to be done."

I said that!
D.

[Anonymous]

"I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing"

what about this...why did it work for me and my family but not one other person that ever went through the program? am i the only one? hey that makes me a pretty special guy! :grin:  
D.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-01-30 09:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

""I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing"



what about this...why did it work for me and my family but not one other person that ever went through the program? am i the only one? hey that makes me a pretty special guy! :grin:  

D."

Yeah, maybe you are.  Maybe it was good for you, who knows?

It is quite possible that there was some window of sanity in LIFE/STEP when you were there, and things were not bad at all.  

Darren, I knew and dated a guy who went thru the ranks of another TC, in fact I first met him when he was on staff there, but I never made the connection twelve years ago.

Fast forward ten years later - this guy is totally reliant on "structure" and "groups".  He's in a "group" for everything - Weight Watchers (even though he's been at a healthy weight for over a year), AA, NA, a tobacco quitters group (he hasn't smoked in two), and some charities.  Not that this is a bad thing - but the guy can't FUNCTION without a group!  

The point is, the TC that he was in, which shall remain nameless, but is a direct Synanon offshoot, totally destroyed this guys capacity to function on his own volition.  He was 29 when he went in.  Hell, I remember him making a call to his Overeaters Anonomous buddy before we made dinner reservations one night!  

I really do hope things are different for you, and that you've learned to think for yourself.  Like I've said before, I really hope when your little cherubs sass back for the first time, you don't fall into that slippery slope that that is the gateway to deadinsaneinjail, and make a decision that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

[GregFL]

On 2005-01-30 09:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

""I am evidence...maybe thats why i have such a hard time accepting some of the crap that some of you say. i have a great life and it worked for me and my family...so every time one of you says...it doesnt work or tells me the majority of people who go through it fail miserably at life or commit suicide or whatever without any stats, i have a hard time believeing"



what about this...why did it work for me and my family but not one other person that ever went through the program? am i the only one? hey that makes me a pretty special guy! :grin:  

D."

You are not the only one. i Believe that the program is ineffective, and that people like you just believe the lie, that the program saved you.

I think it was in you all the while..to succeed. It was in me too and I did...beyond my wildest imagination. However, the program threw a stumbling block in my path and gave me additional issues to deal with.

Drugs were bad for me. I did more after the program but had more issues piled on top.Many graduated get weighed under by the additional baggage of broken families and diagnosed "powerlessness" they learn in the program, combined with feelings of diminshed self worth and isolation.

  Is there anyway you understand or are open to this?  

I have no doubt the program point marks a turning point in your life. If that is the case, you probably would have done just fine

[Antigen]

On 2005-01-30 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

""i do however see the problem in a parent not having the child tested for mental illness or a psych evaluation done before just putting there kid in a program...thats wrong!...my parents spent years testing me for everything just to see if i was ok mentally...when i was ok then they determined that something else had to be done."



I said that!

D."

See, now you read that as the way to do it right. I read it as classic quack medicine. Your parents went from expert to expert trying to find a problem and each one confirmed that you didn't have any significant problem. So they kept shopping till they found somebody to take their money and tell them what they wanted to hear.

That's how cancer patients wind up shooting up sharrk cartilage. And that's fine. If they believe it may help, everybody should be free to follow their own judgement. But we're all free to publicly scrutinize any service that's offered for sale.

That's how the free market works. After awhile, the bogus stuff shakes out. We no longer let blood as a cure for whatever ails you because we have a better understanding of health and medicine. I think the TC model will go the way of the leech doctors. Who knows, there may be some legitimage use for the TC model that will stand the test. They do still use leaches in medicine. Just not the way they used to. And probably very rarely w/o the fully informed consent of the patient.

I honestly don't think that the way GT is doing things can stand much scrutiny. But we'll see.

The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor

--Anatole France