Author Topic: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?  (Read 20470 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2006, 08:30:00 AM »
I was also a former RMA student in the 80's...I personally did NOT feel comfortable with Tim Brace yet I'm not about to air his dirty laundry that he copped to in Propheets & Raps...it may be a little more polished now but beware...I agree with the above comments if you think you are saving your son now...just wait until the future when he is even more messed up than when he went there and has psychological issues like many of the students that went to RMA.  The school was very small when I was there so I feel that the ultimate success rate was very poor. Do a little research and cross referencing of names and you will find that there is a very tangled web between all these schools.
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Offline Troll Control

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2006, 09:19:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-12 05:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I was also a former RMA student in the 80's...I personally did NOT feel comfortable with Tim Brace yet I'm not about to air his dirty laundry that he copped to in Propheets & Raps...it may be a little more polished now but beware...I agree with the above comments if you think you are saving your son now...just wait until the future when he is even more messed up than when he went there and has psychological issues like many of the students that went to RMA.  The school was very small when I was there so I feel that the ultimate success rate was very poor. Do a little research and cross referencing of names and you will find that there is a very tangled web between all these schools. "

I would hope you would reconsider telling what you know about this man.  He has crossed the line from footsoldier to officer.  

He is now making what could be life-altering judgements about children under his care and I believe it is up to those of us who know the truth about these programs and their employees to tell prospective parents the reality of exactly what they're dealing with.

What do you know about this man that may lead parents to reconsider using his program?
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2006, 10:16:00 PM »
find Kathy (possibly Kathleen) Brace...Tim's Ex wife...she will tell you what I want you to know about him.
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2006, 07:44:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-12 19:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"find Kathy (possibly Kathleen) Brace...Tim's Ex wife...she will tell you what I want you to know about him."


I don't understand why you are being so coy about all of this. If you didn't want to talk about it, then why did you bring it up to begin with? That's a bit passive agressive, don't you think?

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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:44 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2006, 07:09:00 PM »
Kathleen and Tim are still happily married. The poster that suggested that contact be made with his ex should get their facts straight....
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2006, 10:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-13 16:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Kathleen and Tim are still happily married. The poster that suggested that contact be made with his ex should get their facts straight...."


Your "evidence" can be held up to as much scrutiny as theirs can, you know. It's your word against theirs, since it is going to be rather difficult to produce proof on his marital status either way.

Besides, whether he is divorced or not doesn't really matter. The point is that he is a total creepy, annoying git, and that is for certain, because I knew him.
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Offline te2105

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2006, 03:04:00 AM »
I don't mean to invalidate your statements with my conjecture, but I wholly disagree. Yes, it is important for adolescents/children to receive appropriate intervention to essentially buffer against any future tragedies, but this system (I cannot speak on others) was no more than a fee-driven violation of morality and, well, human rights.

Yes, I'm sure that the statistics that CEDU was able to offer parents ready to dispose of their adolescent garbage were quite convincing - but the simple fact is, they're specious. The fact that this program is ostensibly meant to improve society is nauseating. These children that I witnessed while in SUWS, RMA, and Ascent over a decade ago were not being "saved" by any means - they were being frightened.

I'm not so sure that I would go as far to say that they were receiving a "cerebral cleansing", but given the impressionable years that adolescents are exposed to these upper SES atrocities - they were definitely being molded in an image of the "emotionally copasetic".

I couldn't believe what I was witnessing the moment I arrived to RMA. It seemed as if everyone wanted to hold hands with me and "sing kumbaya". Fine. But, was it really them that so "graciously" took me by the hand? Absolutely not. The expressions on their faces were so contrived and emotionless; and I can chalk it up as nothing less than derived by fear, impressionism, but mostly - a lack of love.

Let's be honest, the main distal reason why the majority of these children are entered into such a program is due to a family's own failure to maintain social cohesiveness. The proximal reason may be for many (potentially justifiable causes). Clearly, the correlation of higher SES and enrollment says something in and of itself. The higher the income, more disenchanted families become from one another, the more dysfunctional - so let's send him/her off...to save him/her. You must be joking.

Therefore, did it work? Possibly, but not for the appropriate reasons. And certainly not for the exorbitant extortion that they charge. What makes matters worse was the means in which their sloppy success was achieved. I will be the first to admit that these children were abused - physically, emotionally, mentally, and arguably sexually.

I even experienced a few marginal accounts of abuse - such as sitting on a tree stump for 5 days straight and subsequently obtaining severe burns on the back of my neck. Would I go as far to say that this is worse than some Liberian insurgents who force children to murder others for the price of a big mac? No. Yet the main distinction drawn here is simple - THIS IS AN EXCEEDINGLY EXPENSIVE PROGRAM MEANT TO CURB ABUSE NOT PROPAGATE IT.

Let's be honest, is there really any justifiable need to charge $3,500/month for a lack of education - outside of the simple fact rich parental failures will pay for it? I was in the 3 aforementioned programs above for over 5 months (until I escaped from the Betty Ford derivative of Alcatraz - never to be 're-captured) and didn't receive a speckle of classroom time. If the "cause" was truly felt, this sort of service could have and is a minute fraction of the price.

And these "intervention specialists" - could they possibly think of a more amusingly diplomatic title? These hired thugs might have the right intentions, but does it REALLY concern them what purpose they are serving outside of that $65/hour job (quite a handsome amount for most who arguably never went beyond the 8th grade).

The point is: the whole thing is/was nothing less than an intolerable scam, and they should be punished for it. I only pray that I could have spent more time on the relentless campaign of exposing these capitalist prisons for what they were. But alas, my world has taken on a new and much deeper meaning. And it seems as if there are those who have already beat me to the punch - kudos.....
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2008, 02:51:09 PM »
bum



p
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Offline Anonymous

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Wow
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2008, 06:31:43 PM »
very good points te2105...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2008, 04:09:06 PM »
i went to carlbrook and ran away, and there is some definite brainwashing, but some kids are so far down their own twisted path that it takes some heavy control to move them in a more positive direction
of course, most of the lessons wear off quickly after graduation
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Offline Baby Cakes

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2008, 08:03:14 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
...All because I simply trusted for a moment and let my family love me, and loved my family and let others hold me while i cried and danced with my inner child. I realized that everything that i have been searching for has been within me, i have let my mom be my mom and my dad be my dad because i understand how important i am to this world. Carlbrook made all this possible for me to find and discover. Honestly people that bash this place are just afraid of letting their children go, who dont beleive in going back and facing what eats them alive everyday, people that dont trust...But i understand it is hard and many families think this way before Carlbrook. Its all about love and individual strength.

I understand where you're coming from...I graduated RMA in 93, almost 15 years ago, and I agree with some of what you say. One of the biggest things I took from there was a sense of accomplishing something that no one (including, especially, me) can take away from me. I loved the wilderness trips. I still talk to and am close with people from the school. BUT. I don't know about your school, but RMA did nothing to prepare us for post-graduation. They cut us off from our friends still at the school for 6 months because they expected us to fall flat on our faces. There were staff allowed to work at the school that should have never been let near children. We were verbally abused regularly in attempts to change us. And yeah, we were teenagers, we were fucked up, but it was damn aggressive. Cut off from our families, with a moderated phone call every 2 weeks? Really? Kept up for 24 hours in attempts to break our spirits and then build us back up in the image they chose for us? That shit's illegal. Not to mention the $4500 a month they charged for us to be there. I noticed in your post that you didn't mention tuition?

Look, bottom line...I'm really glad that you came out of there feeling the way you're feeling. But it's true what MAD said in his post, it gets tricky the longer you're out. It takes some time to acclimate and integrate the program with the real world. A lot of people will look at you like you've sprouted big purple donkey ears when you try to tell them about your experience. And you'll find some good people along the way who will listen and try to understand. And you may find yourself feeling differently in a few years, or not. Who knows, everyone's different.

We're all here just trying to make some sense out of it, and we're entitled to our views, just as you are entitled to yours.

But I wish you the best of luck.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2008, 08:07:25 PM »
I had lotsa good sex at that place.
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Offline ChristopherRobb

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2011, 11:38:25 PM »
Anybody interested in Carlbrook please visit the site http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461. It is a public facebook forum that discusses Carlbrook and in which people are not anonymous, thus seeks to eliminate some of the more colorful and less productive aspects trends that occur on this one. If anybody is interested in documenting what went on at Carlbrook and taking it beyond the internet (not necessarily to the courts but gaining more legitimacy for our concern) I am attempting to collect sworn affidavits about the events that went on that aim to capture the truth. If you have told the truth you can use the accounts you've already made on this site and have them notarized. It is relatively easy to do this at a bank. Collecting affidavits of what went on there is important because obviously the extreme level of discontent coupled with severity and volume of accusations merits at least some sort of review by a state agency, the courts, or a specialist in mediation/arbitration. Tell the truth and don't exaggerate in any affidavits or you will be subject to perjury. You are also potentially sacrificing anonymity. You can either post your account on the facebook website or you can send it to my e-mail, [email protected]. I personally am glad that I went to Carlbrook in the long run. Less because of what Carlbrook did but because I did need a change of environment. There are good people there and it saddens me that their employment may be threatened by irresponsible and reckless decisions of their superiors. I do honestly believe every single person, aside from maybe one or two was convinced that they were helping us. However, this issue is bigger then whether you liked Carlbrook or the people there. This is about what is acceptable to do to people, no matter what they have done, against their will. This is about the type of breakdown that happens in many organizations that suffer from a closed, secretive management. There were several things that were unacceptable, regardless of your experience.
What was unacceptable was that Grant Price and others who ran groups and made explicitly "therapeutic decisions" has no formal training, education or certification to be providing mental health services (which is exactly what running a group therapy is doing). Carlbrook is not held to any standards in the provision of such services and that is a problem. There are a reason standards and regulations exist in this field (even if they have problems of their own). I think even those who cherished the experience realize that a lot of what went on was not OK and though intentions may not have been malicious by any party, kids were hurt and traumatized by the purposely constructed environment of acute stress and anxiety. Even if you could "take it" some couldn't. People are different. A one size fits all approach of breaking people down and building their identity back up may be useful in forming a cohesive military unit but it is not in treating kids for problems that in many instances are related to stress and anxiety in the first place. Creating an environment with the level of intensity and stress that Carlbrook did obviously will have different effects on different types of people. The degree of emotional invasiveness can also not be underestimated. Forcing people to disclose things they don't want to is simply unethical. Plain and simple. I see this as not an issue of whether or not you liked Carlbrook or certain people there. I see this as an issue of Carlbrook making egregious and harmful administrative errors and being held accountable like any other organization that provided you sub-standard services. If Johnson & Johnson sells defective Tylenol, like they did, they are held to account. Carlbrook purposely humiliated kids, engaged in arbitrary and bizarre punishment and the therapeutic relationships and incentives are certainly highly unethical if not illegal. I would like to know for certain if they are and what potential damage might have been inflicted. I would like to know if Carlbrook gave kids Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which is a condition that worsens with age. I personally am not OK with so much of what went on at Carlbrook and think that a lack of accountability for past events or sweeping what happened "under the rug" would set a terrible precedent and would only encourage others to provide even worse services to kids. Carlbrook is attempting to legitimize and dilute a form of treatment that has been roundly rejected by medical professionals, the courts, and state agencies. Please join me in writing and notarizing an affidavit.
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Offline Valisov1984

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2011, 04:07:24 PM »
????????????? ?????????
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Offline breal

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Re: Carlbrook-CEDU connection?
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2012, 09:54:36 AM »
YES, CEDU connected.

Where are the newer posts?  

Just because Carlbrook was has changed some of its practices to look above-board and avoid law suits, it's still ALL about the money.  They longer they keep you there, the more money they make!  There techniques are harmful!

"The "therapeutic mileau" is meant to facilitate the "un-freezing" of the psychological structure of a client. But this "break 'em down, and build 'em up" process consistently causes psychological harm and goes hand in hand with extreme forms of cruelty. History shows us that although these methods are powerful, they are dangerous. There is no safe way to restructure a teenager's psychology through aversive treatments and Pavlovian re-conditioning methods. Wherever human kindness and basic contact with the world can only be earned through compliance; when communication with family is forbidden and the identity is assaulted; when a child is not allowed privacy or autonomy over bodily functions; when complaints are met with punishment; when a child is denied compassion and yet prevented from leaving; where "un-freezing" is forcibly coerced...abuse is being used as a "therapeutic tool". This type of social system is a "Bad Barrel" that will consistently produce "Bad Apples." Why do we assume this behavior-change technology can ever be practiced safely? "  Marcus Chatfield,  Straight survivor

Keep pushing for reform and accountability.  Save future kids from harm.
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