Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

I was in the Cleveland Seed and went to Florida when it clos

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cleveland:
Wow, MG, I remember this vaguely. As always, everything happened in secret. I remember the Safecard group, because they all seemed so tight. Leeann and Terry - especially  prominent people in my mind. And of course, Patty H., who told me not to go to art school because 'art is for girls.'

 It seemed that maybe you didn't get called on as much in the group, is this true?

Anyway, when you 'left,' I just remember - what happened to her? When a guy disappeared, we might never speak about him again. But the girls - I knew nothing about what was happening there. Remember the joke about the 'chicks' doing nothing but cooking, cleaning and sewing?' Meanwhile the guys were sneaking peaks at porn when the newcomers weren't around!

Anyway, that is so sad. Who knew what they thought you had done? And why? Did someone plant a rumor, or was it jealousy or what? All this in the name of love. I feel for you on this. At least I left on my own, which was hard enough at the time.

Antigen:
Sorry for being cryptic, MG. I'm talking about a group (sometimes it's a school, other times it's a treatment center... depending on legal advice of the day, it seems). It's called Whitmore Academy and is operated by Cheryl and Mark Sudweeks.

Here's the forum:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=35&3860

And here's the initial topic on them:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rum=35&673

When I read your story, it just reminded me of someone who very occasionally posts as mom2three
Here are those posts: http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term= ... mit=Search

Now that I look over that whole mess, it probably is too cryptic and confusing for anyone to just jump in and get it. But you might want to drop a line to mom2three.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
--- End quote ---

MG:
Hi,
I will check out all those links, and thank you.  I don't even know who those people are.  I was unaware even of Straight, which apparantely started before I left the seed in 81'.  The answer Wally's question about me being called on.  Sometimes I got called on a lot and other times it felt like I was in the doghouse........which would make you go look in the mirror a lot, in your own eyes, and chew yourself out, and wonder what the fuck was wrong with you?????  Anyone else?  The whole "your eyes are the mirror to your soul".  I remember getting one inch from the mirror and looking in there like I would see something amazing floating by that would give me the answer to it.  all.......... :rofl: Other times working so hard full time and then swimming like a fish and playing tennis, running with everyone, then cleaning for them on the weekend too.  I was exausted and could barely keep my eyes open sitting there not even having had dinner yet.
Mary

MG:
The sewing joke.....that is really not funny!  I resemble that comment.  We were really poor growing up and I sewed most all my own clothing and I even took the blue ribbon in a fair against old ladies for a reversable suit I made.  I made Art a totally hand embroidered and quilted pillow, which is a lot lot lot of work!  Resented that pillow all these years...LOL  Now I say if you tell anyone I can sew I will have to kill you.  Those jokes if they were made were sure not made to our faces!  As dedicated as I was I don't think anyone would have gotten a pillow out of me had I heard it!

cleveland:
That whole sewing joke makes me think of the little bit of competition betweed the 'guys' and the 'chicks.' I remember when I came in the Seed I thought it was really weird that the guys and girls sat on separate sides of the room. It seemed even weirder when I was an oldcomer and my only contact with the girls was playing football on the beach. We might say, 'good catch Mary!' or whatever but that was it. Sat on separate towels in separate sections.

I remember pretty intense raps when I was a newcomer about 'games' - basically, sex. It was pretty confrontational. It brought out a lot of shame for me, at 19 I had a very romantic view on relationships, but actually had been in a few that felt hurtful. I remember one staff member, Nona, who seemed to imply that she had been a hooker - 'there was nothing - NOTHING I wouldn't do to get high' I remember her saying and I'm thinking, whoa. That seemed pretty crazy, and she's crying and we're all crying and I'm basically feeling pretty bad about being male.

But later, it seemed that the guys and girls competed for Art's attention. Guys did 'guy' stuff, helped Art with his boat, dug ditches for the ball field, like that. Girls sewed stuff, painted, did crafts. The guys kind of made fun of that, but also, we were trying to feel better about being separate from the girls.

I remember John P. and Cindy dating. I remember how strange that was. They were the first I ever remember, and there were no Public Displays of Affection or anything like that. I worked with Randy who was married to Terry, but they were a long-established couple and Randy was an 'honorary' Seed kid, which meant the rules were different.

I remember being jealous of the Safecard crew, where guys and girls worked together. This was rare. It seemed like there were some friendships that came out of this. But for me, I lived and worked with guys exclusively.

I guess the end result of this was, on the plus side, we (guys) felt like we were good guys, treating women as equals, not objects. On the minus side, we had no relationships with women as friends, partners or in love.

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