Author Topic: Can someone educate me about the RAP session  (Read 9415 times)

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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2005, 10:19:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-02-17 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"A lot of it I noticed had to do with the staff that ran them.  The tone of the rap was definatly set by the facilitator.  I know I for sure had a preference when it came to whose rap I wanted to be in, plenty of staff whose raps I avoided at all cost (but unfortunatly at the end of the day you pretty much have no choice).  Some staff had relaxed sessions, some had extremely loud and intense sessions (that I seriously question the usefulness of).



I remember one staff member imparticularly whose raps I could not stand to be in since he insisted on holding each session yelling at the top of his lungs and was not satisfied untill half the room was yelling at the floor.  Sometimes you just did it so you didn't have to listen to the nonsense that spewed out of his mouth.



Rap lugs were always amusing, and for the most part not funny.



The above poster is right, there definatly were weird feelings associated with going into raps like you were about to witnes something bad.  A lot of kids feared them, I of course grew up being yelled at so it was nothing new to me.  The most amusing aspects were definatly the older student bullying that occured.  This was even more so present in RMA (the old RMA), but I think that was the result of the expectation of the unstable staff that facilitated those sessions.  In the end, I think the affect the rap had on a kid depended on how much he feared his indictors.



CHINSK

(i forgot my password)



"


While I concurr that going into a rap with a staff that you feared or that you knew was not satisfied util as you described, half or more of the students had "done work", going into a rap with a staff you liked only to get blownaway by that staff because THEY were advised that they needed to do that sucked too. Back to the uncertainty again, I guess. How older students did their thing is a testament to the intricacies of the delicate matter of keeping your skin and sanity there. If you didn't do work you were lying about something. If you did too much you were lying about something. Being full of shit, and not knowing what was real at the same time WAS nirvana there. I've been thinking for a long time that the platitudes of what a "succesful" RMA student were and one that was "stuggling" are in themselves confusing. And THAT was encouraged. "You are right where you need to be". Remember that? And being rewarded out of the blue just when you thought that everyone just KNEW you were "full of shit". The gummut was run there on confusing the prey. I was sure I was going to get nailed in a rap sometimes just to have "sunshine blown up my ass" about how I was maturing and really coming to my own just then. Man...it was so confusing, and it still is. Am I doing well, or am I struggling? Too much introspection, way too fast and too early.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
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Offline NivekOgre

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2005, 11:25:00 AM »
I don't know if there are successful students. Many of the ones I was in with committed suicide since.
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o What

Offline Anonymous

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2005, 05:31:00 PM »
:question:  That is insane? John was the only one kid who killed himself at RMA. I don't believe it was because of a rap.
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Offline lookatmenowbitch

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2005, 05:18:00 PM »
they pull it together coz they shut down....how dumb r u???i never cried in raps unless they brought up one of my most horrible insecurities... they loved to see us cry...every time they would bring up the fact that i threw up and that i felt like i needed to be skinny to get guys..and THEN go on the fact that i was a slut...they seemed to enjoy when i cried...they would smile when i did and then theyd move on to someone else,...so shut up about YOUR whineyness about ours ...because we have a right to whine...i went there from 2002 to 2004... i will always remember the days they annihalated me for going to the hospital... they yelled at me for my problems and loved it when i cried... they never helped me grow strong...
just more weak with a hardened face
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Offline Intrinsic_Entropy

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2005, 05:56:00 PM »
Haha, i remember RAPS fondly. I had quite a few indictments over my 2 years at BCA, several due to the fact that I would fall asleep during the RAP sessions. Man, talk about a way to piss the staff off.
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Offline Anonymous

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Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2005, 05:58:00 PM »
i had a major problem with narcolepsy in raps, they would make me do work assignments allllll day for that shit
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2009, 02:40:22 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.

 :twofinger:  what an asshole and kool-aid drinker you are, pussy.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2009, 03:17:23 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
:question:  That is insane? John was the only one kid who killed himself at RMA. I don't believe it was because of a rap.

I was at cedu-rs from Jan. 1991 to Jul. 1992.   I know that at least (2) people whom
I knew there - Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson, committed suicide not long after they
had "GRADUATED" from cedu. If my memory serves correctly - Beau & Sasheem were
also from the same "peer-group".  They both finished cedu's program: 2-1/2 yrs. of
raps, profeets, work shops, and the rest of cedu's abusive '"emotional growth"
money-scamming bullshit!  

I have some open questions for all of you pro-cedu sheeple who still "drink the kool-aid":  
If Cedu really worked (and the rest of us "just didn't get it"), then why did (2) kids kill themselves after spending 2-1/2 yrs. being "helped" by the so-called "experts" at
cedu & "graduating" from the program"?  Wasn't the whole point of the cedu experience
to give these kids the "necessary tools" they'd need to overcome their problems and live successful lives?  Weren't low self-esteem & suicidal behavior (along with poor academic performance, learning disorders, drug addiction, defiance of authority, eating disorders, domestic violence, etcera...) exactly the sort of problems that cedu's "marketeers" told parents that 2-1/2" yrs in the program would "fix"?  Why didn't it "fix" Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson, who both "graduated" together from the same "peer group" no less?  
I mean, it's not like Cedu didn't have enough time with them - they had 2-1/2 years!

"EMOTIONAL GROWTH THERAPY" IS A BIG FRAUD!!! - That's my answer, what yours?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2009, 03:51:43 PM »
Cedu was nothing more then a scam.  No education, no therapy from qualified therapists, etc.  The blood of those two kids are on Cedu's hands.  God rest their souls, by the way.  It makes my heart break to think of what they went through.

There is indeed an answer, and I happen to have it.  SCAM.  There are NO other answers.

We have to move forward, us survivors.  And, we have to live our lives in memory of Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson.  We made it through, they didn't.

My love to my fellow survivors.

To those that still value their "Cedu experience," really you fucks are clueless.  And, I personally don't give two shits about the friends you made, the wonderful times hiking, or anything else.  

I'm sick to fucking death of you asswipes from classmates.com that have little disgusting reunions, and that keep in touch with each other.  PUKE.  Why the hell don't you dig up Carmen Earle and John Padgett's graves, place their rotting corpses in a chair, and have a rap session for old time's sake?!

Better yet, why kool-aid drinkers hold hands, and sing old profeet songs, and wipe each other's tears away.   ::puke::
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2009, 11:55:43 AM »
Quote from: "1980 survivor"
Cedu was nothing more then a scam.  No education, no therapy from qualified therapists, etc.  The blood of those two kids are on Cedu's hands.  God rest their souls, by the way.  It makes my heart break to think of what they went through.

There is indeed an answer, and I happen to have it.  SCAM.  There are NO other answers.

We have to move forward, us survivors.  And, we have to live our lives in memory of Beau Riddle & Sasheem Dobson.  We made it through, they didn't.

My love to my fellow survivors.

To those that still value their "Cedu experience," really you fucks are clueless.  And, I personally don't give two shits about the friends you made, the wonderful times hiking, or anything else.  

I'm sick to fucking death of you asswipes from classmates.com that have little disgusting reunions, and that keep in touch with each other.  PUKE.  Why the hell don't you dig up Carmen Earle and John Padgett's graves, place their rotting corpses in a chair, and have a rap session for old time's sake?!

Better yet, why kool-aid drinkers hold hands, and sing old profeet songs, and wipe each other's tears away.   ::puke::

Great Post!  I just wanted to add that after the kool-aid drinkers are done crying
& singing profeet songs, they'll finish the night by smooshing and jerking-off
together in one big "disclosure circle".  :sue:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 04:30:32 PM by Son Of Serbia »

Offline try another castle

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2009, 06:12:56 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
i had a major problem with narcolepsy in raps, they would make me do work assignments allllll day for that shit

Me too. And propheets.. workshops, you name it. Normally the drowsies would always  hit me during the rap portion.

I always marveled at how a lot of us had to fight to stay awake while people were screaming at each other, running their anger, etc.... even if it were simply a middle of the afternoon rap, as opposed to in the middle of the night in a propheet. I'd doze right off as if I were reading a cheap novel.
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Offline RMA Survivor

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2009, 09:03:28 PM »
Raps were held 3 times a week for us on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.  They lasted three hours.  During the week you could put in a "Rap Request" to try and get a specific student or staff member in to your rap ahead of time.  

On the day of the rap, the staff would be in the office going through all of the requests, along with their own, and putting together all the raps that would take place that day.  Usually four to six, each with 15-20 students and 1 to 3 staff facilitators.  

Raps took place after lunch so everyone was hanging out around the "pit", a seating area in the living room where most announcements would take place.  The staff would walk in, many of them smiling, knowing who was going to be getting destroyed shortly in his or her raps, and then they would announce who was in what rap and what room to go to.  There was often quite a bit of humiliation involved in this process, as someone above noted, where people would get their names called and a staff would make a snide comment about them and students were expected to giggle, laugh or whatever to look good and stroke the ego of the staff.

Once in the raps, you tried to get a good seat, which for me tended to be next to the staff chair.  Most of the "power" staff generally took a seat in a particular spot each time, and since you couldn't yell at someone next to you, sitting next to a staff, or actually two seats over, was a good spot.  And since the students generally put the chairs in to a circle to set the place up, if you were there early you could grab a more comfortable chair.

Once the staff were there and everyone was seated, you had to listen to some psycho-babble speech from the staff before things begun.  Then you'd hear the magic words "Let's have a rap!" and all hell would break loose.  Anywhere from three to fifteen people screaming to get the floor, usually the loudest and most persistent got to go first.  They would mostly be upset at a fellow student for some minor thing they had done like take an 11 minute shower instead of 10, hogging the washer and dryer, not "pulling their weight" or something equally trivial.  On rare occasions you might hear someone get "indicted" as the term was, for something serious like planning to run away, admitting to taking drugs on a home visit (which meant an older student because you didn't go home till after a year, so these people had managed a year or more in the program and yet took drugs the moment they had a chance, suggesting the program didn't really work.)  There could also be "breaking bans", which meant you spoke to someone you had been banned from communicating with, banning itself being a violation of our civil rights and right to freedom of speech.  But mostly the indictments were for the most trivial matters.

Then other people would join in.  In order to talk to someone, you had to be somewhat across the room from them so as not to be physically intimidating as usually people who were talking tended to be on the edge of their seat, fingers pointed, screaming at the top of their lungs, which is definitely threatening.  So you would point at someone across the room, make eye contact, letting them know you wanted to switch seats with them, and if they had nothing more to say, or weren't planning on saying anything to the person being talked to, they would get up and switch seats.  So if you are the person being yelled at, as you watch, two, three, seven, ten, fifteen people all scrambling to move across the room from you, this can generate quite a bit of fear and anxiety because you know every single one of them has something to say.  Not necessarily anything true, or anything relevant, as often people who keep the heat on you rather than let it end and potentially mean someone else gets yelled at.  There was a lot of fake indictments to keep the rap moving but against others, so as to avoid getting yelled at yourself.  

I remember one rap where I could tell a student, whom I barely knew kept switching with me.  Anytime I would switch seats, he would be quick to jump up and change.  Or if he couldn't, he would wait so he could get in to position to be able to indict me when the current person being talked to was finished.  So I made shit up to say to the person to keep things going, saying something everyone could comment on so more people would want to join in and go "Yeah, me too!"  and in doing this I managed to get him to change places one too many times and the staff member caught him and said sit down!  Commenting that he had switched about six times during the indictment on the other student but had not actually said a word.  And this kind of killed the current indictment so suddenly another student got yelled at and since I was sitting right next to the guy, he couldn't say a word.  So I had basically manipulated the rap for over an hour to prevent myself from being yelled at, and I know everyone else did similar things.  It wasn't always hard to know if you were about to be yelled at.  Especially if during the first seconds of the rap, one of those fifteen people trying to get the floor were yelling your name, but lost out.  Waiting and knowing you are going to be screamed at is an intimidating and fearful way to spend three hours.

One aspect of raps rarely mentioned is how students at the school were often meant to feel equally guilty about events in their life compared to others who might have had less crap or more crap go on in theirs.  An example would be going to death row in prison for jay walking, whereas someone else went there for murder.  If you had little about your life that was horrible, staff would try and create something.  I know for me, my parents divorce was a rather simple affair, it wasn't a battle, there was no fighting, my father moved close by and he remained a part of our lives.  The divorce had nothing to do with me.  But the staff tried to make me feel horrible about it, suggesting my father divorced my mother and I was partly to blame at age 7.  It was bogus, but this is what they did.  You had to feel guilty, horrible, deep penetrating anguish all the time, and God help you if you had trouble crying because generally they don't stop until you cry.  I also was meant to feel bad for my being adopted too.  All of this to make me feel as bad as people who had raped others, been raped by others, kids who had been molested by family members, kids who had OD'd on drugs, or had severe alcoholism and so on.  I got sent to RMA because I missed some homework assignments but was made to continuously feel bad about myself on the same level as others who had just terrible lives.  And Raps were the main place where this took place.  

So to sum up, Raps for the most part had no positive sides.  In some ways it was better than just punching the daylights out of someone for trivial crap, but there was no other outlet allowed.  Walking up to someone and just saying, "Hey dude, we're all waiting here, next time could you try and keep your shower down to ten minutes?" didn't happen.   Said in a calm voice, most would have just said yes.  But it paid off to say it in a rap instead, and at the top of your lungs. You "looked good" in front of staff if you indicted people in raps, so there was a reward of sorts for doing this even when it was for trivial stuff you should have tried to solve out of a rap.   Raps were about generating deep emotion and anger in the students and then leaving it undirected.  Leaving it undirected might not have been intentional, but it was the usual outcome as there was really no actual therapy, just screaming and yelling.  Staff often used bottled terms that had been so over-used they had no real impact.  The terms were often vague, so students were left to guess what was said and what it all meant.  At the end of a rap, people either pretended to be elated, having really dug deep and experienced something profound, or they had blank stares, were exhausted and had no clue what to do next except stagger down to dorms for dorm time glad they had a day off before doing another rap.  

Do they work?  No.  They claim they helped save thousand of druggies over the years.  But I could walk up to a druggie every day of their life and ask in a calm and serious voice, "You ready to do something else with your life, or are drugs working for you still?"  Unless the druggie really wants to stop and do something else, they won't.  Yelling and screaming aren't going to work.  And if I also say, "And if you do decide to change, I am here for you," I think this is far more positive and would have a better chance of getting through to the person.  Showing them that not everyone has given up on them.  But it has to be said with truth and some amount of care and love so the druggie can know that is there.  That they might not have to do it alone.  But ultimately, unless they want to change and quit, nothing will happen.  

Using raps on teens who have no power to walk out or defend themselves, who might not have actually done anything horrible... it is useless.  Raps were rarely used to deal with the issues related to why the student was sent there by their parents.  It was usually just anger management for trivial shit that happens when 120 people live in close quarters, unable to leave in an environment that is foreign, far from home, scary and full of fear.  Not once while I was there did anyone ever ask me about missed homework assignments.  But they did spend a lot of months trying to determine if I had ever used drugs or had sex, because that shit they loved to talk about.  Why?  Because all of the staff had done it.  And not in a good way.  Staff had been known to have raped people before becoming staff.  Of having been prostitutes.  Of having serious alcohol and drug abuse problems.  And they figured since they had been weak once, everyone else must be lying because they must have done it too.  And this is where making all of the students feel equally horrible about themselves winds up being the whole purpose of raps.  

Hope this description helped.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2009, 05:41:25 AM »
Quote from: Guest
Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.[/qu

this is obviously written by an adult who helped "facilitate" the screaming attacks, not by a 14 year old kid being the recipient of a room full of people yelling hateful, generally unhelpful stuff at them for hours.  Sometimes people doing the "railing" were half out of their seat, screaming/swearing/pointing/spitting/crying/looking like they wanted to kill you.  Many of us sent to these schools had major self-esteem issues already.  One of the most sickening things about this was that students who fell right in line with the program often "proved" they were "fixed" by screaming at you with full force in a rap.  I heard so much stuff screamed at me that was absolute bullshit...said by someone who didn't know me at all.  Many times, it felt that person was simply finding a target in order to get the rewards.  This makes the "therapy" a complete game...run like a popularity contest.  I was at Cascade, where all the ex-CEDU people decided to start over in 90-92, back when it was still at least fairly brutal.  

This remark really insulted me.  "mentally ill people put it all together in raps" ???  What does that even mean?  It's really easy to play into the psycho-game that was these schools, really easy to tell them what they want to hear, scream at who's being screamed at, etc.  People with mental or emotional illness may have been able to cry like they were supposed to and scream at the floor to their mom that left them or whatever....but you better believe this didn't necessarily mean the raps had "fixed" them.  

And what about the after effects of all this "therapy?"  I know I personally got into crack after graduating, which I'd NEVER done anything more than LSD before Cascade.  It's not just that we're whiners, complaining that we got yelled at a couple times.  The popularity aspect of following the program always made me sick.  It wasn't about who's feeling better, it was about how much you kudos you could get from the counselors.  Disgusting, and very detrimental to a developing teenage mind.  Not to mention the HOURS a week we had to do this (about 10-12 , not including the freako all weekend "workshops") .  As a highly empathetic person, it was really painful to see someone else get heavily railed, or cry their eyes and snot out over some of the worst things I'd ever heard.  This is why I felt shell-shocked my senior year after I'd finally been released from Cascade.  After everything I'd emotionally suffered from being there, I had no clue how I fit into "the real world" anymore.  Twenty years later, I still feel permanently damaged from that shit. :beat:

Oh, and use the spellcheck, dude.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2009, 12:48:00 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Thank you for this description - but raps aren't that bad. Everything done in them is healing. I can't believe how you people see the world. Our staff indightments can only help you. I have seen a lot of mentally ill people pull it all together in raps and prophets. Raps used to be hard. Now they are whimpy and you are all winers.[/qu

this is obviously written by an adult who helped "facilitate" the screaming attacks, not by a 14 year old kid being the recipient of a room full of people yelling hateful, generally unhelpful stuff at them for hours.  Sometimes people doing the "railing" were half out of their seat, screaming/swearing/pointing/spitting/crying/looking like they wanted to kill you.  Many of us sent to these schools had major self-esteem issues already.  One of the most sickening things about this was that students who fell right in line with the program often "proved" they were "fixed" by screaming at you with full force in a rap.  I heard so much stuff screamed at me that was absolute bullshit...said by someone who didn't know me at all.  Many times, it felt that person was simply finding a target in order to get the rewards.  This makes the "therapy" a complete game...run like a popularity contest.  I was at Cascade, where all the ex-CEDU people decided to start over in 90-92, back when it was still at least fairly brutal.  

This remark really insulted me.  "mentally ill people put it all together in raps" ???  What does that even mean?  It's really easy to play into the psycho-game that was these schools, really easy to tell them what they want to hear, scream at who's being screamed at, etc.  People with mental or emotional illness may have been able to cry like they were supposed to and scream at the floor to their mom that left them or whatever....but you better believe this didn't necessarily mean the raps had "fixed" them.  

And what about the after effects of all this "therapy?"  I know I personally got into crack after graduating, which I'd NEVER done anything more than LSD before Cascade.  It's not just that we're whiners, complaining that we got yelled at a couple times.  The popularity aspect of following the program always made me sick.  It wasn't about who's feeling better, it was about how much you kudos you could get from the counselors.  Disgusting, and very detrimental to a developing teenage mind.  Not to mention the HOURS a week we had to do this (about 10-12 , not including the freako all weekend "workshops") .  As a highly empathetic person, it was really painful to see someone else get heavily railed, or cry their eyes and snot out over some of the worst things I'd ever heard.  This is why I felt shell-shocked my senior year after I'd finally been released from Cascade.  After everything I'd emotionally suffered from being there, I had no clue how I fit into "the real world" anymore.  Twenty years later, I still feel permanently damaged from that shit. :beat:

Oh, and use the spellcheck, dude.
                                                                 speaking of spell checks-----indightments--whimpy--winers--freako--and spellcheck all wrong lol, Just saying dude, lol :roflmao:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Can someone educate me about the RAP session
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2009, 05:54:50 PM »
Great Post!  I just wanted wanted to add that after the kool-aid drinkers are done crying
& singing profeet songs, they'll finish the night by smooshing and jerking-off together in
one big "disclosure circle".  :sue:[/quote]


Serbia, my diet pepsi just flew through my nose when I read your post!  Love it!!!
You rock!   :notworthy:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »