Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Group Think
GregFL:
You two guys just outline how different the seed was for different people. For the vast majority of us, we graduated and got the hell away from it as soon as we could.
You guys that choose to stay around take an entirely different perspective from the seed experience than the 'normal' seed attendee or graduate. Most of us that graduated and then tried to leave never had that severe attachment or hard breakup that you others' had. I always wondered how you people viewed your experience as it seemed such an alien concept to me that someone would stay around there voluntarily after they could just leave and go on with their lives.
I see evidence in your writings that guilt laden coersion was a part of the reason you guys stayed around, mixed with a sense of idealistic purpose and misplaced loyalty. I hope you don't take this wrong, but it seems a bit sad that you guys devoted so much time and energy into the seed instead of devoting that energy into living a less directed and controlled life. It is also inspiring that you were able to break away and come to terms with the experience and find purpose away from the group. It is a really, really, interesting story you tell.
jgar:
Hey Walt and thanks,
This to me was such a mind fuck. At first as I tried to strike out in the world thinking that I was so sure of what was right and what I needed to say and do and finding out how easily people would drop me or avoid me(both from the Seed and new acquaintances). Than at some point true loneliness kicked in and a very real sense of being so alone. Still I held onto the idea that if I made some adjustments and continued to move forward I would come out OK. It?s funny how with time so many questions get answered and a fuzzy picture slowly begins to clear. The group never realized that hiding behind its wall would stunt one?s growth. I agree with you in saying my true growth happened outside the group once I had learned certain basic lessons.
I remember at first how careful I was in daring to question some of the Seeds positions as if I was being some sort of heretic and would be burned at the stake for daring to think different. I was very cautious with dealing with other graduates who were still involved careful as not to say the wrong thing. On one occasion I was shunned by another graduated because I was no longer part of the group and how hurt and angered I was by this situation but yet this only confirmed to me the importance to go and develop in my own way.
I will say that not until I began to post on this sight did I dare to strike out with some negative aspects so openly in my words. In truth I would not even allow myself to think of these things fearing that this could cause my unraveling and ultimately my destruction.
To this day I will state that the Seed did change me when I needed to change but this did not mean that I needed to be an indentured servant for the rest of my days.
?But than again it?s only life after all?. (Indigo girls ?Closer to Fine")
[ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-21 07:40 ]
Johnny G:
THere was a period where the Seed was trying to retain people, as the newcomer rate was pretty slow - and everyone was from some distance away.
In my case the only people I knew outside the program didn't have a lot to offer (I was working at JT Reese, stay cool roofing, construction). So the easiest thing to do was to stick around - also the rhetoric encouraged that. I think if I had stayed in Cleveland I would have gone home after I graduated. My mother came to hate Art Barker about a weekafter I moved to Ft. Lauderdale so I think I would have pretty much disappeared.
I think the Seed gave me the opportunity to get out of the mess I had gotten myself in - one can second guess the prison dead or crazy bit but I gotta say I came out better than I went in.
As far as being around as long as I was, as mentioned above, the program encouraged that. I also had set a goal of not fucking up for 5 years and leaving under my own power(5 years seemed to be a milestone - and the folks I initally viewed as more together had been around that long).
I accomplished that and left very shortly thereafter - I did feel like I left in the nick of time; A Staff member had mentioned spending more time in the group after a conversation I had with a female seed kid got reported up the ladder.
I was fortunate to be around for the period after the open meetings and before the football games at the beach. That was a good (but short lived) time when there was a definite break in the routine and control - went mud boggin' in Jeffs truck (cracked the windshield with my head) and got stuck up to the axles. Twisted a few wrenches, did some fishing, had fun.
I also think it eased the transition quite a bit that I worked away from other seedlings, so I could be myself at work (someone noticed that I was happiest on Monday morning and almost bummed out on Friday afternoon)
Once the football games started I was lucky to be able to "watch the house" most of the time.
I worked my leaving in with a visit home so I could work things out in a more timely manner, came back a week early, got my stuff one afternoon and moved to Coconut Grove. I wasn't really interested in what the Seed thought of my decision.
It took me a couple years to get adjusted to the freedom and the social aspect of life, I felt like Rip van Winkle.
cleveland:
Johnny G.
Your post brought back many memories - Stay Cool roofing, J.T. Reese, and some good times, too. I remember that brief period of almost freedom as a time when the Seed staff was trying to figure out what to do with the graduates who were sticking around, especially when we weren't at work or in the group. Most of us got assigned to tasks - watching Art's house, working on his boat, cutting grass, fixing cars. We were glad to do it too - we were working together, and having a blast sometimes. We also had a bit more free time on the weekends, once the regular weekend raps were shortened, then eliminated. I drove down to the Keys with Jim H. and a couple of other guys - we drove 70 miles an hour on the wrong side of the road, poached lobsters from the bay, and laughed our asses off - all the fun you can have sober and celebate at age 20! We did a midnight fishing trip in the everglades, and a couple of other things, until staff came upon a solution - endless weekend games of football and baseball! And I do mean endless - starting at 11:00 am or so and going on until 1:00 am or so at first, plus digging out the drainage ditches in the back field and making a baseball diamond by hand. And let me tell you what - I am a particulary bad and uninterested ball player. I would rather get a root canal. And since that became our only weekend option for some years after you left, my life was hell - OK, not as bad as prison or death, but certainly torture. Plus, the jealous feelings for those who were gifted at sports, because of the attention they got and because they were actually having fun doing something that I couldn't stand - it was like a never ending 7th grade PE class of dodgeball.
I'm still bitter, can you tell?
Anyway, after I left, freedom tasted so, so, so sweet. Of course, I was lonely and confused at times too, and made many mistakes but - I think I made the most of my freedom.
And Greg, yes, it's crazy that there is a group of us who volunteered for 5-7-10 years to be a part of this small small group - but Johnny G. remeinded me of why I stayed, and why I left, too.
jgar:
Just for the record I was not fond of the football games. I loved going to the beach but not the endless football games and I was not crazy about playing spades. I just figured you take the good with the bad. I did really enjoy body suffering or the bogie boards or snorkeling.
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