Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Sorry Folks, the Seed helped me!!!

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Ft. Lauderdale:
Antigen - I walked around everyday thinking about killing myself.  I was never happy as a kid.  To be perfectly honest my father didn't really like me.  I had alot of emotional problems.  My Dad was an alcoholic my mom in and out of nut houses. Sure I was not an average american kid.  We did go to private schools & my Grandparents were well off. I used drugs for 2 yrs 16 to 18years old.  I never shot drugs.  I was a senior in HS.  I got my stomach pumped once.  I was deathly afraid of shrinks.  I really thought I was bonkers, I was f---ed up- no stability at all.  I needed structure- not forever structure not mind control- I needed discipline and lots of it -I gained strength because of it- inner strength- I started having a sence of humor about myself. This was probably one of my major saving graces- for my own sanity. I really do believe if I did not have that structure that would not be so.  I've had a few suscides in my family as well (Aunts) Yes ...so everything I heard at the seed rung loud & clear.  Antigen I never knew your family but from what you describe they sound weird so do you to me just like I probably do to you.  I'm sure a shrink would really have a field day with you too.  I really don't mean this in a mean way its just what I see.  The Seed did alot of good thats what I saw and still see from those helped.  Believe me It wasn't perfect.  There are alot of big mahofs that I wont have anything to do with. By the way before my Dad passed away a couple of years ago He was sober in AA for 25 yrs.  I have never taken a drink in over 30yrs he didn't in 25 - that must say something.  I voted for Kerry.  I'm not a total Liberal but I'm not a total conservative either.  I'm divorced .  I'm not perfect nor ever claim to be.  I've lived in diffrent cities - maybe even some reasons I don't drink is because of my father.  But why you must tear down people that believe the way they do is the issue.  If I knew how this friggin phrase thing worked I could go line by line and come up with something line by line as well but its not necessary either.  I have enjoyed reconnecting with some people on this site but I think I'm done. I do appreciate that alot. I do hope everyone finds there own way through this journey.
I really do wish everyone the best.  ::bigsmilebounce::

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2005-01-06 11:29:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

  But why you must tear down people that believe the way they do is the issue.  .

I really do wish everyone the best.  ::bigsmilebounce::

"

--- End quote ---


perception here Ft Laud.  I have grown to understand and even appreciate your sense of humor, but do you forget how you started here...as a attack troll anon telling people to fuck off?  Do you not see that Ginger talks mostly about program IDEAS and not people?

Ask yourself why you perceive anti program people as attacking you. As yourself why you can insult someone, come back and say you are going to "give them love" and then get pissed when they don't immediately respond in kind?  what gives here?

As far as your personal story..we all have one. My mom was a hard core alkie...walked out on the family when I was twelve. My pop never had been a father and continued along that path until throwing us in the seed.

I have been "sober" in the sense I don't hardly drink unless it is a party or I have friends over. I have had a case of beer in my house for a year...and a bottle of vodka unopened for six months.  I don't do drugs.  None of this I attribute to the steps or to art barker. I don't need to "step" my way to logical conclusions..that is that mind altering substances are not good for me.

However, post seed were the most destructive years of my life. I lost my family..I lost my self worth..I lost my reputation among my friends and became known as a "troubled kid" that went to drug rehab.

I am lucky in a sense I survived..but not drugs..the intense anger, loss of family and self hatred I gained in mind control camp. Our experiences have vastly different results. I am willing to listen to your side and think you should be more willing to listen to others.

Now, that being said...we wish you would stay around here and continue to participate. I have grown fond of your warped presense here!

 :grin:

marshall:
I spent a few months in prison before I went into the seed. I can look back now and see that prison helped me in some ways too. I've heard people that claim their being diagnosed with cancer has helped them in some ways. The list could go on...divorce, death of a parent (forced me to grow-up), etc. Whether we turn a particular experience into something positive and whether we learn or grow from that experience varies tremendously from person to person. What hurts one person may benefit another.

But would I want to go back to prison? Would we wish to have a parent die or get cancer...even though we might ultimately grow from such misfortunes? I have met some people who seemed to have been helped by various relgious cults or sects too. In their early years Jim Jones' People's Temple did a lot of good works for the poor...they helped people. Does this justify what happened later? Does it mean it wasn't a cult?

I can see many ways that the seed seems to have helped me too. I can also see other ways that it seems to have caused me harm. From the vantage point of many years later, I don't think any of us can be sure that our psychological problems are the result of the seed. Nor do I think we can be sure whether any positve attributes we think we have (including not using drugs) are the result of the seed.

How many of us will die of cancer or heart disease one day as a result of the seed's wholesale approval and justification of smoking? Couldn't all of these people claim that the seed helped kill them? I know I was not able to stop smoking until several months after I graduated and stopped attending the seed.

Why do most of us insist that the seed must be completely good or evil? Like most things or people, I see it as a little of both. I've been married to the same woman for nearly 25 years. I have 3 grown children and 3 grandchildren. I've smoked pot once since the seed. I drink wine or beer on occasion...and have for the last 26 years without ending up an alcoholic, insanedeadorinjail. I am not powerless over drugs or alcohol. That was a lie the seed drilled in. Whatever ways that the seed may have helped me, I would not wish such an experience on anyone...anymore than I would recommend prison.

GregFL:
:nworthy:

Antigen:
Ft. Lauderdale, I'm really not tearing anybody down. I know how that's done. And, if you want to go semantical w/ me, one valuable lesson I learned from the Program has been how damaging that can be and to avoid doing it.

What I am doing is pointing out that the Program (not you, not Jimmy, not anybody) is more than just minorly flawed, it's dangerous. It can and does do a lot of harm to a lot of people.

I'm sorry to hear that you had such a messed up childhood. And I'm glad everything has worked out in the end. I don't think that makes you weird, though. I think a decent shrink is like a decent DA; they could diagnose a ham sandwich. If you get to know people well enough, you find out that damned near everybody has at least a few nuts in the family tree. So did I.

 But I still think there probably were other options that would have been as good or better for you and your dad w/o drawing my family into it at all. And you must understand that the other families were a necessary part of the Program, right? I mean, it wouldn't have worked at all had it been one on one or w/o the notion that the world was turning all druggie and it was "us against them", right?

Our family's involvement w/ The Seed made everything worse, not better. And I'm hearing the same thing from, far and away, the vast majority of people who look up their particular Program name on the net and find these forums.

Believe it or not (and I'm guessing you won't) I still wouldn't make a public issue of this at all, except for one minor detail. The Program, as defined by the Drug Free America Foundation (formerly Straight, you know the history) is the most widespread, publicly mandated and funded method of "treatment" for my kids' generation. In 2000, their lobbyists actually tried to pass federal legislation limiting all federal juvenile drug treatment funding to only facilities that use the "Therapeutic Community" model. Thankfully, that failed, but not by much.

DARE, once mandated in 80% of public and private school districts in this country, is based on Program dogma and some of it's methods. A lot of activists have made a lot of noise and drawn a lot of sanctimonious ire onto themselves in order to get DARE out of the schools. The same thing needs to be done w/ these more intense, lock-down programs. That's why I tear the Program down. But not you or anybody else. Just the Program.

Fear is the parent of cruelty, therefore it is no wonder if religion and cruelty have gone hand-in-hand.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic
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