Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Memories of being clean and sober
landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-30 23:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-11-30 06:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why don't you attack the contents of the post as oppossed to the person who posted ?"
--- End quote ---
Perhaps because there is absolutely nothing in the post that relates in any substantive way with what any of us were saying. In fact the only thing abundantly clear is that the person posting has an appalling inability to comprehend what they read. 1st grade indeed. "
--- End quote ---
I thought it only fair that I point out that I posted the above since I would certainly like you to have an opportunity to respond to the right person. I suggest before you do though that you might wish to consult a dictionary and perhaps a thesaurus this time so that you might have at least a glimmer of a chance of actually making a point. I realize that I run the risk here of making you lose your fear of humans. Feeding you and all but somthing tells me the risk is pretty small.
Anonymous:
All you guys took from my post was "first grade".
Can anyone explain to me why, after repeated use of "the Seed or AA tools" and having it work for a while, but then eventually ending up back in the group and essentially starting over, you guys keep trying the same thing over and over?
If something doesn't work, then it just doesn't work and logic would dictate a different approach. It seems to be very self-defeating to try and use a methodology that, I don't know, perhaps shows that it does not work for you.
I don't know the answer, but I can see from the expereices that are recounted and repeated that whatever ya'll are doing is a process that keeps on repeating and addressing the same or variations ofthe same issues over and over again.
Believe me, I am no stranger to this. I struggle with this quesiton daily, too.
I know we can't fix every human flaw and be perfect all the time - that would be boring. But I guess I just don't get the whole mentality.
landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-01 05:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All you guys took from my post was "first grade".
Can anyone explain to me why, after repeated use of "the Seed or AA tools" and having it work for a while, but then eventually ending up back in the group and essentially starting over, you guys keep trying the same thing over and over?
If something doesn't work, then it just doesn't work and logic would dictate a different approach. It seems to be very self-defeating to try and use a methodology that, I don't know, perhaps shows that it does not work for you.
I don't know the answer, but I can see from the expereices that are recounted and repeated that whatever ya'll are doing is a process that keeps on repeating and addressing the same or variations ofthe same issues over and over again.
Believe me, I am no stranger to this. I struggle with this quesiton daily, too.
I know we can't fix every human flaw and be perfect all the time - that would be boring. But I guess I just don't get the whole mentality.
"
--- End quote ---
Fair enough but have you read my other posts here? First in my mind that I have had nearly 17 years of sobriety out of the last 20 doesn't seem so terrible to me. You say it doesn't work yet in fact it does for a remarkable number of people. That is a fact. No it doesn't work for everybody. That is inarguable. When I slipped after 14 years of sobriety I was dealing with a son who had lost his hearing to meningitis and his mom who couldn't get over it. And I hadn't really worked the program or sought support from it for a number of years. Does that mean the program failed me? Did I need something? Well perhaps you don't really know what it?s like to be totally obsessed by something that is killing you, robbing you of your values, your family, your health, your freedom and yet not be able to stop. Yes there have been bumps in the road but the funny thing is my life works when I work the program. Keep in mind that I am talking about AA not the seed and there is a huge difference though that wasn't so true at the beginning. If you have never been in the position where you just can't go on drinking anymore yet you still can't stop then you simply can't possibly comprehend what that feels like. For me AA connects me with God and alcohol separates me from him. I have experienced miracles in my life because of that relationship with God. I experienced hell because of my relationship with alcohol. You talk about this cycle of failure seeking redemption and it just isn't the way it is. Though I can confess to sometimes being overwhelmed by the opportunities and success that sobriety brings me nobody would willfully turn away from it to return to the desperation of alcoholic drinking for some pipe dream of forgiveness. The only forgiveness I seek I already have unconditionally. Turning away from that is exactly what the insanity of alcoholism is. It isn't explainable or understandable in any truly scientific way but through experience. If you haven?t had that experience I am glad for you but don't try to boil down my feelings and my own experience which I have expressed unreservedly and un-anonymously here to some narrow viewpoint that fits the way you think things are. Instead of being attacked by you for what doesn't fit into perception of things why don't you share your own experience? At that point I'll listen and take you seriously. In fact it is only because you began to do that in your last post that I responded again, but I'm willing to back up and listen if you?re willing to share your own experience in lieu of attacking mine.
Anonymous:
Well you are right. I absolutely cannot relate to the continued obsession that some people have. And perhaps that is why I just see it as something that is so black and white - if it's bad for you then its bad for you and you just don't do it. Period.
I did experience addication with freebase cocaine for a while back in the early 1980's, post-seed. I saw what it did to my health, my personal realtions, my honor, and least of all my bank account. I guess I was lucky in that I did stop. And while I may get slammed for sounding ungrateful to some group or higher power, I just stopped. Period. There was no back and forth on the issue, no bargaining with god, no groups, no nothing. But I did lie there shaking and sick and sleepless and I never touched it again. I don't think that makes me any better or worse than anyone else. I just chose not to use again because the consequences were so fucked up and I could see it was a killer.
Now? I have way too much to lose now to ever even think about going back, let alone taking a snort or picking up a pipe. The past is the past. I am not proud of it and I had all but forgotten those few months until this time.
I've not meant to be cruel in my statement, but sometimes it seems that the seedlings who go on to AA or other step-type programs really do wear that as some kind of badge of honor - like unless I have lost like you guys I can't possibly understand how complicated your feelings and thoughts are or how important they are. Maybe tht's not the intent of what you or others put out there, but honestly, that's what I perceive. Somehow, my thoughts and feelings are less valid becasue I don't subscribe to your belief system. Funny, isn't it that we both make each other feel that way. What is it about us that causes that?
I went to the seed, I smoked pot maybe a half dozen times before my parents got brainwashed and put me in there and I did a hell of a lot more drugs post-seed than I care to remember. But I still managed to walk away because I paid attention to the results.
What I can't understand is why there would be any question in any persons mind about whether or not he or she could do that again (you drink -me smoke freebase cocaine (is that now crack?)).
Is there a question in your mind that maybe you can drink? Is there some kind of "want" to do it even with knowledge that you never should because of the results? Look at what Walter wrote about his sister and the drama. Is that what it is?
For me? It's just not an option. I have have no desire to. Alcohol might be pervasive but like coke, you still gotta make an effort to search it out. And while one is searching, there's time to change your mind.
You also wrote this:
It isn't explainable or understandable in any truly scientific way but through experience. If you haven?t had that experience I am glad for you but don't try to boil down my feelings and my own experience which I have expressed unreservedly and un-anonymously here to some narrow viewpoint that fits the way you think things are. Instead of being attacked by you for what doesn't fit into perception of things why don't you share your own experience?
Sooo...First of all, what difference does it make if I chose to remain anonymous ? I have replied back and put myself out, too.
While you may have perceived my initial post as an attack, I look at your collective stated experiences (and I've been reading here on this board for well over a year), and then I read what JaLong writes back which I will leave you to review again-then I think on my experience and I wonder why you guys feel the need to get so "strokey" and pet each other for living and getting through life. Isn't that what we should be doing anyway? Hell, we all live life. We experience happiness, sorrow, loss, and goodness - everything. It's the human condition. The sun is still the same and so is the grass, birds and the flowers. Forgive me, but I think it's just a matter of whether you pay attention to what's there.
If the stove is hot - don't touch it. It's the lesson I was taught, it's the lesson I taught my kid. I guess I am just that simplisitic. Anyway, that's my experience with addiction. It didn't take much to turn me off of it entirely.
ChrisL:
Quote "I think on my experience and I wonder why you guys feel the need to get so "strokey" and pet each other for living and getting through life. Isn't that what we should be doing anyway? Hell, we all live life."
I give the strokes, because I like the strokes, strokes and pets are good, good....
"If the stove is hot - don't touch it. It's the lesson I was taught, it's the lesson I taught my kid. I guess I am just that simplisitic."
Err.. yes that is pretty simplistic...I think the point is that yes some of us (very few) have the ability or the will, or power to do it on our own, whatever the "it" is, give up, sacrifice, change, love, start doing something, stop doing something... I just always found it so much better, easier, sweeter,(insert adjective) meant more and continues to mean more (to me, no one else) when I made the commitment to a group and shared my success with a group, whether this is your friends, colleagues, AA group, family, church, higher power or yourself (provided of course there is more than one voice...) no seriously though,
Also everyone makes mistakes, slips, screw ups, thats a part of being human, just because something doesn't work the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th ... time doesn't mean you just give up... the fun is in the trip not the arrival. Hell it took me 4 times to quit smoking (working on 8+ years this time), but I kept trying, Love you guys & gals!
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