Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Dicussions with parents about seed experiences

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Stripe:
I am 47 years old, my brother is now 52.  My parents are now 82 and 84, mom and dad respectively.  

Our folks put us (me and my brother) in the Ft. Lauderdale Seed in March of 1973. For lack of a better explanation, my behavior intially the  "cause" of our internment.  

My mother was a public school teacher and taught at the high school where I attended.  Apparently, a Seedling got her ear and told her what a wonderful place the seed was, how it changed her life, etc., and because of my radical behavior (having smoked pot maybe 10 times)our folks decided to "nip it" in the bud.  Anyway, long story short, my brother was injured at the time and my folks were given the choice of either both of us being put in, or putting my brother out on the streets with no place to live and no way to make a living while his leg healed.  My brother, bless his heart, opted come in there with me.  I wish I had known then the  sacrifce he was making for me.

Fast forward 32 years. After much introspection, etc., another seed freind and I come cross this site.  I began to remember things about the place and remember what happened to me there.  

I have since spoken with my mother about their  decsion to put us there - father was not included in the discussion b/c of his health at the time.  Our folks were sold a bill of goods on what the possible horrible outcomes were for me and my brother - and what great results would come from participation.  When I told my mom some of the things that happened there, she was shocked.  She cried and apologized.  Did I mentions she's 82 years old now? I explained there was no need to apologize because they were lied to - how could they have known what really went on there?  I never told them - how could they have known?

It's been a good experience for me and my brother to get this out in the open - between us and our forlks, instead of everyone  thinking/pretending it was a good and positive experience for us.  Understanding the reality of that time then helps me to understand my life choices and reality now.

Have other people discussed the aspect of such "involuntary commitmet" with their families or the persons responsible for signing the contracts or paying the fees?  How did the discussions start and what were the results?  

My experiece is obviously on-going and I want to be very careful not to cause my parents any hurt as they were only doing what they thought was right- based on the information given to them.

BTW - please don't respond with comments like "I was responsible for putting myself there by my "bad behavior".  This is actaully a serious inquiry to help me heal my family.

Thanks.

cleveland:
You raise some good questions. As for me, by 1978 the laws had changed and people could no longer be put in The Seed on an involuntary basis. It's one of the big reasons the program dwindled and became marginal - it was at it's peak when tons of kids were coming in involuntarily, signed in by parents of by the courts. I've read a lot about that elsewhere.

As for me, my drug use was fairly minimal for a kid in the 70s, my big problem was depression and anxiety - I was overwhelmingly sad and was suffering panic attacks too. I had no idea what was wrong with me. So, I signed myself in because a staff member told me they could help me, and because I was really afraid that if I talked to a Psychologist they would tell me I was crazy. So sitting on hard chairs and singing Jingle Bells seemed a better alternative.

From your posts I see that you feel that your experience was harsh and abusive. For me, it was different - mostly consisting of fairly strong discipline tempered with lots of humor and expressions of love. Not so bad, especially at first, until I later wanted to move on with my life and make adult choices and found myself stymied by the structure and rigidity of the Seed.

As far as my parents, they were pretty disfunctional - my dad had divorced my mom, remarried and emotionally checked out - my mom was on her way to developing full-blown alcoholism, so I was essentially on my own, even if it looked different from the outside. When I told my parents I was going in the Seed, I more than half hoped they would talk me out of it, or tell me I was OK, but they didn't have a clue and maybe they were a little glad to just shunt me off somewhere. I've never spoken to them about it fully - my father, who I am now closer too, feels guilty about his absentee years, and my mom is dealing with her own demons.

As for my siblings, they are both in AA, which I feel has a lot of the same Seed faults (although an AA person has a lot more freedom than we did!) but they are not drinking or using so it's hard for me to judge them on it.

After I left the Seed I got the help I needed, both from psychologists and support groups, but later just by discovering that I am a good person, I deserve to have a good life and I am OK. It was an uphill battle; I feel I had to recreate parenting within myself since the support I needed as a kid was really missing, even though I lived in a 'nice, suburban family' that was ready to implode under the weight of denial, substance abuse, anger and unhappiness (and this had been going on for several generations, too). At present, I am happy, at peace and feel supported. My family is still kind of nutty, but I love them and understand that this is all part of the healing that's necessary. I am not angry at the Seed, I do not think it was a grand conspiracy, but I do think it was ignorant of what people needed beyond slogans and 'tough love' and all of that.

Good luck in your search for wholeness and happiness!

GregFL:
No easy answers here Stripe. For me the best thing I did was remove the anger from the topic and clearly and unemotionally present the reasons why it was bad for me.

My father was an adamant program supporter and helped start Straight, Inc. after the seed left St Pete. In fact he was one of the original founders.During this time him and I were totally estranged. Somewhere here there is a story about what happened to me andhow at 16 he tried to thro me back into the program and I left.  I didn't speak to him for 4 years from age 16 to 20, and then we had a strained relationship for many years after that surrounding my being angry about not being validated for what I had been thru.  This issue remained unresolved until I got about 40 when I removed the anger, decided what he thought was no longer important but that I would not allow him to claim the Seed "saved" me without an intellectual, not emotional, discussion.

It worked on some level. He understands partially why it was so negative for me and others. Other times he claims it "saved my life" to family members behind my back, even when it is common knowledge it broke our family up and I did far more drugs after the seed than I ever did before.

Go figure.

I would tell anyone this. Don't force anything on your parents. remove the emotion and speak to them adult to adult about what happened to you. Let them off the hook, tell them you don't blame them or hold them responsible. Don't expect miracles or total understanding. Finally, have the talk only if it helps you, don't do it to try to change them.

GregFL:
Cleveland, the Seed in 1973, when Stripe and I were there, was a bit of a different animal then when you were there.

First, it was expanding rapidly and was anything but voluntary. Just in 10 months from 2/73 to 12/73 the Seed grew by 2100 kids,a nd I venture to say only a handfull of them signed themselves in. It was basically a teenage prison camp held in warehouses. Group was sometimes up to 1000 kids at a time.

The place was a revolving door of kids that didn't need addiction treatment but instead needed families.  We were locked up, threatened in smug ways that if we tried to escape we would be brought back and then "court ordered", which increased your 'sentence' and was greatly feared.

During this swinging door time of the seed there are documented cases of physical abuse...some of it even hit national publication, and some of the stories are contained here in the pages of the SDF...oldcomers spanking kids with their pants down, newcomers being threatened with and then beaten by their parents at the direction of the staff at the seed,a staff member taking a 13 year old boy into the "back room" and hitting him, kids being thrown down hard and piled onto if they tried to run....I even participated in one such ordeal in the parking lot with a senior staff member and another watching which left the kid, about 14, bleeding and bruised. He then was sent right into the group by the person in charge of st pete at the time.

Those from later years that played football with Art and pranced around in front of him in their bikinis while he patted their little teenage behinds have a completly different experience than us 73 and 74 prisoners did.

Yes, my experience, like Stripes, was harsh. This is why also sometimes flames erupt when someone comes along and says the Seed saved them and all that, when most of us were just little kids ( I hadn't even hit puberty yet) that werent' addicted, didn't want to be there and were only there because we had no alternative.

I think your experience was harsh too from what I read, but in a totally different way.

My point is we all, me included, need to try not to paint everyone's experience here with a broad brush.

cleveland:
You're right Greg. The experience was different at different times, and for different people. If people feel angry, they sould talk about it. If they feel grateful, they should feel free to talk about that too. I think it's all part of what was there, and these are decade old memories too.

No body ever hit me; but I do remember being jabbed - hard - in the back if some bozo oldcomer thought I was 'into my head' during a rap. No one ever sat on me or pinned me down; but I did submit to a strip search, an oldcomer slept on a cot in front of my bedroom door when I was a newcomer and I was required to keep the bathroom door open at all times - humiliating. On the other side, some of the people there were fun to be with, especially 'after the raps' when we were home - we'd laugh, and play jokes on each other, and have a great time. When I was with a newcomer, I sincerely wanted to help them; I tried to, as best I could and with the limited Seed vocubulary that I had, to make them feel good about themselves - I didn't abuse anyone. Mostly, we played ping pong, watched TV, and cooked meals and such. Sure, a lot of what I told them was over-simplified sloganeering, but I was trying hard to believe it myself.

Also, although Art surrounded himself with young, attractive women, I never sensed anything 'sleazy' - if anything, the Seed was very prudish about sex. I do think Art cared about the people around him - OK, he was an egotistical megalomaniac as well, but no monster - in my experience.

People did yell at me, tell me I had fucked up, and all of that - and they were often wrong, misjudged me and my motives, or they were spewing slogans themselves. But it certainly wasn't much different from what I experienced in other aspects of my life.

If all of this happened within the context of a family, or the military, we'd think it's kind of 'normal.' The word cult can be used, because we did give up a good bit of our autonomy to be a part of this; but people do it all the time, especially insecure, lost or lonely people. Some of the same things happen when you're in college, or on a team, or part of a corporation. It's a cult when it's destructive. And I recognize, that for some, maybe many, the Seed was destructive. In my case, it's really a hard thing to measure. I gained commeraderie - I lost freedom. You can see that in the end I chose the uncertainty of going my own way and leaving the Seed behind. But I recognize that people have this need to belong and they will give up a lot for it, often too much, as in a bad relationship.

Sorry for that damn long-assed post, I can't seem to get this out small concepts - too complicated for that.

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