Author Topic: The Final Days  (Read 13439 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« on: November 10, 2004, 10:08:00 AM »
Greg, do any of your followers have an account of the final days at seed school? What hapened ? How did it close? id they continue to see each other afterwards. Once again, no one, but noe one wants to talkj about the 90's. Can you please ask them to post about what life  was like indside seed 90's as we have no information about that. Are there people posting here from the late 90's and even 2000??  Interesting that you have 70's and 80's post, but no one has the courage to post 90's in detail.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2004, 10:22:00 AM »
Dude, it wasn't a school. But that's OK I see from previous posts you were in some religious group but not the Seed.

OK, no posts from the last days of the Seed. I think this is because in the last days, there were only a few, very committed, long-term members. It's possible that it all ended badly as these things do when people who have been part of a closed society break apart. I'm sure no one wants to talk about it.

It seems that people generally wait about 20 years after they leave the Seed to start talking about it - so maybe in 2020 we'll start hearing from people who were around in the last Seed years.
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Offline GregFL

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The Final Days
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2004, 10:22:00 AM »
My followers?  

 :lol:


There are people that post here that were involved in the seed in the 90s. If they want to comply with your request they will.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2004, 04:10:00 PM »
I heard about the Seed when I was 7. that was 1975. I wnet into the program when I was 14 then again later because I had a "relapse", basically I had a couple of beers on Friday after and was an alcoholic. I have been directly involved with the Seed for 20 something years, right up to the bitter end when Art lost it and started accusing all the guys of sleeping with Shelly and became viciously paranoid.  I know one of the staff memebers took his guns away when he started walking around the house with them. Whatever reason the Seed was started, it became a cult and like most organizations and religions it is hard to say whether it did more good than bad. Many kids got off of drugs and stayed that way hopefully.  

Art's personality for control and everyone worshipping him basically let him get to the point where the Seed was a cult. (If you look up the definition it is scary.)  If you have good memories, keep them especially if they help you through life. It was very ugly at the end all the staff met with Art and "blasted him", but he and they were too far gone by then. Decisions were made over every aspect of your life by Art and staff if you lived around the Seed.  Staff at the end tried to play innocent and , but really they ran the Seed at the end and didn't tell Art most things, he was gone by then. It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who dedicated most of their lives thinking they were doing the right thing only to feel like they were swindled and confused at the end.  I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.  

I just hope i'm not crazy
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Offline Antigen

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The Final Days
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2004, 08:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-11 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.

Thank God! I've heard through the grapevine descrptions of the way things turned out that are very similar to what you say. And I have to say, I honestly thought it would turn out a whole lot worse for you guys.  

Quote
I just hope i'm not crazy


We're all a little crazy, friend. Don't sweat it. I think the craziest among us are those who refuse to acknowledge it. Check out John Ashcroft's 5 page letter of resignation, hand written so as to ensure security??? Now that's bug all crazy, if you ask me!

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Somejoker

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The Final Days
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2004, 09:13:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-11 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I heard about the Seed when I was 7. that was 1975. I wnet into the program when I was 14 then again later because I had a "relapse", basically I had a couple of beers on Friday after and was an alcoholic. I have been directly involved with the Seed for 20 something years, right up to the bitter end when Art lost it and started accusing all the guys of sleeping with Shelly and became viciously paranoid.  I know one of the staff memebers took his guns away when he started walking around the house with them. Whatever reason the Seed was started, it became a cult and like most organizations and religions it is hard to say whether it did more good than bad. Many kids got off of drugs and stayed that way hopefully.  



Art's personality for control and everyone worshipping him basically let him get to the point where the Seed was a cult. (If you look up the definition it is scary.)  If you have good memories, keep them especially if they help you through life. It was very ugly at the end all the staff met with Art and "blasted him", but he and they were too far gone by then. Decisions were made over every aspect of your life by Art and staff if you lived around the Seed.  Staff at the end tried to play innocent and , but really they ran the Seed at the end and didn't tell Art most things, he was gone by then. It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who dedicated most of their lives thinking they were doing the right thing only to feel like they were swindled and confused at the end.  I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.  



I just hope i'm not crazy"


WELCOME TO OUR FORUM ANON. We have been waiting for someone like you to come along and educate us from an extreme insiders perspective.  Please tell us more, and if you would be so kind, email me your telephone number at [email protected]. I would love to chat with you.

GregFL
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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2004, 11:49:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-11 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I heard about the Seed when I was 7. that was 1975. I wnet into the program when I was 14 then again later because I had a "relapse", basically I had a couple of beers on Friday after and was an alcoholic. I have been directly involved with the Seed for 20 something years, right up to the bitter end when Art lost it and started accusing all the guys of sleeping with Shelly and became viciously paranoid.  I know one of the staff memebers took his guns away when he started walking around the house with them. Whatever reason the Seed was started, it became a cult and like most organizations and religions it is hard to say whether it did more good than bad. Many kids got off of drugs and stayed that way hopefully.  



Art's personality for control and everyone worshipping him basically let him get to the point where the Seed was a cult. (If you look up the definition it is scary.)  If you have good memories, keep them especially if they help you through life. It was very ugly at the end all the staff met with Art and "blasted him", but he and they were too far gone by then. Decisions were made over every aspect of your life by Art and staff if you lived around the Seed.  Staff at the end tried to play innocent and , but really they ran the Seed at the end and didn't tell Art most things, he was gone by then. It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who dedicated most of their lives thinking they were doing the right thing only to feel like they were swindled and confused at the end.  I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.  



I just hope i'm not crazy"




O.K. here we are at the core of the final days. Now, would someone please tell us what happened?


Tell us the sory in detail. By the way anon I hope you can tell us a little more about your involvement with the seed. Finally, someone who has the courage to start speaking about what really happened, in detail. Remember, anything we can not really speak about menas we reallhy are still brainwashed (as if er akeeping secrets to protect this people that taught us that anonimity essential in life).
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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2004, 11:53:00 PM »
Quote

On 2004-11-11 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I heard about the Seed when I was 7. that was 1975. I wnet into the program when I was 14 then again later because I had a "relapse", basically I had a couple of beers on Friday after and was an alcoholic. I have been directly involved with the Seed for 20 something years, right up to the bitter end when Art lost it and started accusing all the guys of sleeping with Shelly and became viciously paranoid.  I know one of the staff memebers took his guns away when he started walking around the house with them. Whatever reason the Seed was started, it became a cult and like most organizations and religions it is hard to say whether it did more good than bad. Many kids got off of drugs and stayed that way hopefully.  





Art's personality for control and everyone worshipping him basically let him get to the point where the Seed was a cult. (If you look up the definition it is scary.)  If you have good memories, keep them especially if they help you through life. It was very ugly at the end all the staff met with Art and "blasted him", but he and they were too far gone by then. Decisions were made over every aspect of your life by Art and staff if you lived around the Seed.  Staff at the end tried to play innocent and , but really they ran the Seed at the end and didn't tell Art most things, he was gone by then. It's a shame, because I know a lot of people who dedicated most of their lives thinking they were doing the right thing only to feel like they were swindled and confused at the end.  I definitely would not drink any cool aid offered when the Seed closed.  





I just hope i'm not crazy"





O.K. Here are the secrets of all asecrets, please 90's people tell us and 200 people tell us what happened on the final days.


Note: this is not my post, I only edited for format problems.[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-11 22:25 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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The Final Days
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2004, 12:00:00 AM »
I have 'heard' that there was a major confrontation- and that the the group split between Lybbi and Art. and many people were very torn, I got away years before -but can only imagine how horrible the unraveling was- I know there are those watching this site- who were there 'til the end- you hold the key to the ultimate closure for many of us   DO THE RIGHT THING - let those of us who are trying to make sense of it find our answers- that would be just.
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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2004, 08:05:00 AM »
This is great that someone's talking about this - not to 'hurt' anyone, but to be open and honest, so that people can understand their experience and not feel like they were crazy. Thank you!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2004, 03:17:00 PM »
The worst part was the holding back of information. We were trained that to protect certain privileged individuals we did not need to know the "whole story," even if their behaviors and actions directly affected our personal lives. I do not believe that this was one individual, but several.

As Americans, we take for granted that our society is supposed to be open. In other words, we except that the media and other social venues be as "objective" as possible. We might not know the entire truth about our political leaders, yet we push to the limit and believe that it is "our right" to know.


Many years of training, however, taught us that in group it was not "our right" to know the whole story. We were taught that the inner circle always had to know and approve our every action, but when it came to the lives of the inner circle, it was O.K. if we did not know the "whole story." After all, they were priviliged.


I certainly believe that each individual has the right to privacy, with limited exceptions applied to those in leadership (whether the groups be small or large). Openness in matters that affect the group is a core responsibility of a true leader.

There is no circumstance in life that we should not know the whole story when it affects our own personal lives. Obviously, the secrecy and shading of information was a way of keeping those empowered in power.

Let us not forget that our freedom is the most valuable of all God-given rights.
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Offline 90's Guy

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The Final Days
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2005, 10:26:00 PM »
I believe I need to clarify that I hold no resentments against The Seed or Art. On the contrary, I believe that my years at The Seed (since I cannot change the reality of  20 years of my life) were valuable as I shared my life with some good people. I do hold some special memories form those years.
On the other hand, I see  my time with the group as a controversial and negative experience when I look at all of the bullshit that was fed to us, especially the internalizing of ?believing that some people were more ?aware? than others?BETTER THAN OTHERS. What a joke?  This I believe was the most damaging part of what happened to me throughout the 80?s and 90?s. I really believed it hook line and sinker, but now I see how the ?new agey? quality of the cult was for the birds in that normal people do not set up a hierarchy of importance as if one person is better than the other. I saw many members damaged psychologically from this nonsense. For me, the group was definitely a mirror of White machista culture, valuing everything that was not part of Anglo dominance (including sexuality) as less than. This was very obvious from day one to the end.  What earned you points with staff was #1 being White, savvy in business, and money (the older the better). Diversity was not respected in the group and was actually discouraged. Diversity was tolerated up to the point where it was cute to be slightly different, but always there was a reminder that you were not good enough unless you knew how to make money. The funny part was that many members were not given the opportunity to excel (unless they really bucked the system?like in my case), and other members had the ?red carpet rolled out? to suit their personal needs. This was ironic, of course, since the staff proclaimed that no one was ?treated as a special character at The Seed.? Believe me there were several special characters that received the blessing for most decisions that they thought was convenient for their future. Interestingly, in the last years, key staff members who had been on top for years, were not given the same special status by Art since there were other favorites at that point, namely members that were involved in business with him. Anyway, for some the Seed became the ?country club? that it always publicly rejected in statements, such as ?The Seed is not a country club.?

   Another aspect of the place that I now laugh at is its love for ?secrecy? as if everything that happened was ?White House? material. The world would go on outside of the Andrews Ave. walls and Arts house, and we were made to feel as if each and every business or personal problem in the group was so ?important? that we must be sworn to secrecy if we even wanted to hear the ?Truth? from the inner circle. What bullshit!!!! The least they could have done was filled in each member (after they had sacrificed the last 20 years of their lives to ?the cause?) of the internal problems that brought it to the end. Instead, the people ?in power? split in two camps and decided that it was best to,  now, start filling people in on all the petty crap that had divided them (mainly money and power). Of course, those that had always been left out of the loop were now expected to pick a side or if not it was a sign of ?disloyalty.? At least, the 70?s gen. only had to deal with the manipulative guilt games coming from one major group, but those that stuck it out to the end (and were never part of the inner circle) suffered the worst of the ?drama scenes?-being pulled emotionally by two camps for loyalty (if you will). All of it was a bunch of crap. Thank God, I?ve come to realize there are people with real problems in the world (besides millionaires that have nothing better to do but mentally masturbate). I can see why they had no children to feel responsible and compassionate towards; they might have had real problems to worry about, instead of what was going on within the ?inner circle" or the "drama of the moment." Everything was treated as life and death when life and death was really going outside the group. Funny, all the things, they tried to teach me not to do they ended up doing themselves. I think it is hilarious!!!
[ This Message was edited by: 90's Guy on 2005-02-01 19:41 ]
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Offline Antigen

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The Final Days
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2005, 03:38:00 AM »
What a cool outlook! Woops! Did I say cool?!

Seriously, though. I think you're astonishingly lucid and resilient.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2005, 01:08:00 PM »
me too. Thanks for that post!
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Offline cleveland

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The Final Days
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2005, 02:27:00 PM »
Thanks for this post. This makes me really glad, more than ever, that I left the Seed when I did. I spent many years at the Seed, hearing that one thing was happening, but feeling and seeing another altogether different reality. I heard that honesty was the first and most important thing - what I saw was that honesty was punished. I heard that we were all equal - what I saw was that some had special privileges, while others did the grunt work. I heard that helping people was the most important thing, but I saw some who spent a lot of time pursuing their personal goals with Art's blessing, while others did the thankless day to day work. I heard that I would get the power of awareness, what I got was willing myself to be unaware.

When I had the courage to ask a question, I was told that "that's not important." I guess I wonder - not important to whom? Oh, right, me - so I guess I'M not important. That's what I took from that.

Doing one thing while saying another causes what's called 'cognitive dissonance' - you can't hold two opposite thoughts in your mind at the same time without becoming confused or crazy.

I think the previous post is right on the money. Art was a 1940s guy, from a poor Catholic (I think), single-mom family in Brooklyn. What kind of world would he invent but one where there is a rigid power structure, where sex is shameful and suppressed, where money and power are acumulated by the 'elite' of the group, and where the underlings are tantalized with visions of moving up, gaining acceptance by the 'inner circle,' and at the same time, told to be grateful for what is their 'lot in life?' As I was often told, 'ours is not to question why, ours is but to do or die.'

And I will say it again - what happened at the Seed can happen anywhere, where even good intentions can be soured by secrecy, power and rigid roles for people.

Thank you, 90's guy, for helping me to get clarity on this.

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