Caroline the Wolf

[Anonymous]

whatevs yo

she was messed  up and treated people wrong she felt wronged by..
she oozed sexuality.. she came into raps in lingere.. she fucked students..

it's something that's remembered.. and something to bitch/gabber about..

who cares.. shehas her place.. so we talk about it here and there.

i just check these forums maybe 3 times a year and see everyone else balbbing about it so i add my 2 cents here and there.

she should be flattered.

[Anonymous]

All I have to say is WOW!

I was at RMA in the late 90's and did not know Caroline...she sounds like a much worse lesbo version of Sheila Claremont who was the asshole staff member there during my stay..

I wonder if my mother would have sent me there having known that staff members abused kids, drank w/ them etc. Maybe so..

I am wondering if Nicole Bayley and Nicole Rowell are one and the same?? I know Nicole (who was a team leader when I was there) was a former student and was married to a former student..Anyone know??

I don't remeber ever hearing stories about Caroline when I was there, but some of the names sound familiar (of course Mel Wasserman, Steve Rookey) And were the other Earle mentioned (I believe Dan & Carmen??) related to Tim Earle? Tim was a team leader and I believe he grew up in the CEDU system...so maybe the same family..

I am sad to hear about the abuse some (or most) of you endured at the hands of this Caroline person (orgies w/ students, chicks going down on her, calling girls cum burping whores...) Some seriously sick shit...What a fucking pig!

[RMA Survivor]

I think the  point of contention in this here thread, it seems, was if students who actively participated in the rat squad should be considered just as accountable as people who were staff.

My vote is no... (just a wild guess there. ) Although I fully admit that I couldnt stand the whole student gestapo bullshit, but I DID feel pushed to participate, as not being one of those folks garnered a lot of shame and disrespect from everyone else, and I got nailed for it in raps constantly. My ego just wasnt strong enough to bear that scrutiny without at least trying to go through the motions a little bit. If yours was, more power to you. Wish I was you.

Being part of the authority machine and policing other students was part of the coercion crap. We didnt consent to be there, but the staff chose to be staff. They applied for the fucking job, and could have left at any time, as opposed to us. I dont give a flying fuck, at that point, if they used to be students, because they CHOSE to come back, and it's no fucking accident that some of the most brutal asshounds there were ex-students.

So... context should always be acknowledged, but that doesnt divorce anyone from their responsibility for being a sackwad.

When I was at RMA, two staff members actually had a "split contract".  It left me wondering why, if they applied for the job and were free to leave, they felt a need to team up to escape?  In a normal work environment, you would just say a couple of staff considered quitting their job.  But CEDU/RMA were a different breed.  That staff didn't feel comfortable just leaving, freely, is odd.  I think in another thread somewhere, people pointed out that Mel would make it hard for them to leave, retaliate on them.  This was a cult after all.  

I remember Brett and Lisa Carey arriving in 1984 and appearing to be the most calm, rational, happy people there.  But that soon changed.  I think you could make the argument that staff could get affected by the cult stuff too.  I think many brought in their own baggage however.  Caroline Wolfe, Randy Eide, Russ Decker. These were people with bullying instincts before becoming staff.  The fact all three were former students, and clearly anyone who had been staff around these three when they were students had to know they were bullying types, who got off on power, yet they were hired to become staff.  Probably for those very reasons.  Yet they could take a Brett and Lisa Carey and turn them in to dominating, criminal minded people too.  They couldn't turn everyone in to zombies, but they seemed to have had a system that worked a lot of the time.  But you could also argue the fact people are often fake and don't show their darker sides too often.  So perhaps Brett and Lisa, Richard Armstrong, Bruce Wilson...These people may have had different traits lurking beneath the surface.  When I arrived at RMA, Richard "Rowdy" Armstrong seemed friendly.  He laughed a lot, got along well.  By the time I was there six months, he had probably been there about ten to twelve months.  And then that "other" side of him started to show.  I think he saw that he could act the way he really was and it was acceptable there.  Even encouraged.  In a job interview, you don't act like a domineering jerk.  But once you get the job, once you see how the system works, people often change to old habits.  

So I guess I am saying that CEDU/RMA provided a place where people were encouraged to be abusive.  And some staff who were hired saw this and left, and some found a home they could really get in to.  No restraints.  So you could have a cook like Steve Rookie, or a handyman like Richard Armstrong apply for a job that they thought was normal, and then find themselves drinking the Kool Aid, seeing the power, and letting out their own hidden darker sides and changing in to a different person than who they were at the start.  And that may have been intentional, actually desired by Mel Wasserman and Co.  For former students, CEDU/RMA recruited those whom they knew would have no problem going along with the system.  But for staff they hired, they probably preyed upon weak people, knowing they could potentially mold them in to the slave masters they were really looking for.  Turning people who were capable of being kind, in to people who actually preferred not to be.  

In the CEDU Documentary, when Liam interviews the former staff member named Dennis, Dennis is clearly mentioning how when they try and hire people, they have a questionaire which things like, "How do you feel about corporal punishment in a school setting?"  Answers would be very revealing, enabling them to weed out those who were too kind and with too strong of personality to dominate and control.  Instead looking for those who might admit to pulling the wings off of butterflies as children.  Those whose answers revealed traits they wanted.  Something to suggest they would probably be willing to go along with abuse and not report it.  

My comment about Caroline Wolfe specifically.  CEDU and RMA didn't work.  They didn't fix people.  Bullies like Caroline Wolfe were bullies before attending the program as students.  CEDU didn't make Caroline a bully, she chose that on her own and was allowed to become staff because they knew she would not need a leash.  They could set her loose, feed her power and she would do the rest all on her own.  As above, no restraints.  Caroline was a sex addict, prostitute, whatever, before going to CEDU.  The program there didn't fix her of that either.  They knew she was a young, blond, fairly attractive female who was still a sex addict when they promoted her from student to staff, they knew she was a bullying type.  They knew what she was capable of, what she would do with her power.  But that was who she had been before going to CEDU.  Caroline didn't become a staff by chance.  They wanted her because they knew she was a weak person who would produce the results they wanted.  And boy did she deliver.  Just as Russ Decker and Randy Eide delivered.

[Anonymous]

So, what has happened to this cunt anyways?  Seriously, where did she go after Cedu closed?

I saw a short video of her.  Jesus, what a phoney!

[try another castle]

Brett and Lisa Carey got sucked in because they were your average conformists: well meaning folks who don't really understand that sometimes it's important to go against the grain. I doubt they would even know how, or know when it would be appropriate to do so. I don't really remember Lisa's history, but Brett was your average Pink: A Preppy guy who was in a fraternity, probably would have become an investment banker if he hadnt come to work on the duck farm. Maybe something more crunchy, (hippified) I dunno.


They were both totally unremarkable individuals...  but if you lived next door to them, you'd have them over for barbeques, because they seem nice enough, just not interesting enough to become close friends.

[Che Gookin]

Brett and Lisa Carey got sucked in because they were your average conformists: well meaning folks who don't really understand that sometimes it's important to go against the grain.

Yeah I can understand that one, it takes a real hard ass to tell a program to shove it up their ass. Sadly, for 4 or so years, I wasn't one of those hard asses.

[RMA Survivor]

I agree with you Castle.  Good description of Brett and Lisa.  Not just conformists but the kind of people who probably would have grown up to be the true image of politically correct.  But they were a little off to begin with.  When I first met them, I remember Brett mentioning he had something to do with Up With People.  You can Wiki them if you've never heard of them.  Maybe Up With People isn't a cult, but it is a little unusual.  And Brett and Lisa seemed prone to joining such a program.  Just looking for some place to fit in, join, associate with, be a part of.  Not out blazing their own trails, but followers looking for leaders to follow.  It would not surprise me in the least to find out Mel Wasserman attended an Up With People event and met Brett and Lisa there.  Mel out looking for new, weak-minded minions, Brett and Lisa wanting nothing more than to become minions.  

But as you said, they'd be friendly neighbors, people you'd invite to a Bar-B-Q.  But you know they'd volunteer to bring several dishes, all of which would be pleasantly happy dishes, probably bland because they'd have to contain all the "latest fad" purely organic, non-fat, non-anything ingredients.  But you'd smile politely and thank them for being so thoughtful.  People would pick at their dish but not really want any.  And if you hadn't been neighbors with them, a day after the party you'd forget they ever existed they would have been so boring.

They wouldn't be the ones to form a Christmas Caroling group to roam the neighborhood, but they would certainly be the first to volunteer to join, volunteering to knock on doors and get others to go along.  Just to be a part of it.  Not thinking about it.  Just wanting to be a part.  And that's why they were able to fit in at RMA/CEDU.  Two people who would never look past the surface of anything to see what was lying underneath, not questioning anything, never seeing or noticing anything out of the ordinary.

[Anonymous]

Mpst regular good ordinary people adapt to the culture of the workplace they are at even when they sometimes don't like it. I know I do. In a relatively normal workplace it is a sensible and tactful way of not killing your career. There is not a moral issue with it. So it is not surprising that there would be some decent people that brought into some of the most crazy and fucked up ideas on how best to "help" these kids, particularly when everyone around them appeared to see it as normal. Im sure there were some psychos that just found their nieche and I dont know if Caroline Wolf was one of those or if she was just a damaged little girl who was made worse by their therapy. In part i pity her but she sure seemed to mess up a lot of kids.

The other thing that strikes me about so many programs is they are so far away & most couples were there as a pair. So other people come home from their office job or whatever debrief about it to their friends and partners and if there is something odd may hear someone tell them it is not kosher. If on a day to day basis the only feed back you get is that you are saving lives and the only people you ever discuss your work with are colleagues it can be really easy to just go with the flow and be swept up in it. Look at Zimbaros work on the psychology of good and evil

[RMA Survivor]

Interesting points.  When I was there, I didn't get the impression that the majority of the staff spent any time with anyone other than those working at the school.  I am sure some of the townsfolk who came to work there had local ties and relationships, but those who came from elsewhere seemed to spend the bulk of their time on campus, often on their days off.  I am sure that helped to reinforce the concept that they were all just helping the kids as one big happy family.  No negative feedback whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Or any feedback even vaguely questioning the program, like i come home and describe a typical day to my partner who does not work in the corporate sector and will hear him say he couldn't stand the conformist culture of it all or sometimes i will tease him about his medico colleagues being like an arrogant cult. Both of us recognise a certain level of truth in what the other is saying even if it is not so bad for either of us to chuck in our jobs.
The other thing that strikes me is that so many program staff that are not old scholars of the school are straight from college. Everyone knows that as much as I hate to use these words the mid 20s is a time of emotional and professional growth. For a lot of middle class kids it is the first time that they are exposed to people that think differently to them or that some of their ideals are challenged in a real world sense. A young teacher or psychologist for instance may discover some of the methods the really beleived in are just not practical in a real world setting. Or they are exposed to a mix of older more experienced and potentially jaded colleagues and equally green contemporaries as well as the jerky boss versus the kick ass mentor. All of this shapes professional development and personal growth naturally. But when everyone shares the same view and tells you that outsiders just dont get it and the process of this happening is slow and steady, it can mean adopting some prettty crazy world views without really knowing it is happening.

[RMA Survivor]

I totally agree 2 Cents.  It's like most people who grow up living in the same town, hanging out with the same friends, seeing the same people over and over again for 18 years.  Your view of the world is based on the input of a very small group of people.  In fact outsiders are often...I don't know if you would say feared, but often ridiculed just for being different, like a natural instinct.  You live in a very closed off world.  Then as you say, you perhaps go off to college, maybe in a different state, or just not where all your friends go, perhaps not around your family all the time, and suddenly you have to "fit in" again.  And in doing so you start to listen to other peoples experiences, their view points and you finally have to make decision on your own about what to believe, what to accept.  No longer do you have all your friends around to help guide you, so you start to listen and learn and understand that your limited view of the world is not all there is.  

And I agree about the 20's.  You might graduate high school and go off to college at 18, but it takes some time to let down your guard, be able to hear other people and stop thinking you already know it all, that you're Superman.  And this process speeds up the farther away from home you are, the farther from your friends and family you are.  

If you went to work for IBM in the 80's, or the FBI, you'd have to accept their culture to some degree.  At least on the outside, you'd have to get used to dressing like them, talking like them, being like them, or you wouldn't fit in and be accepted.  IBM and the FBI are bit like cults in a way.  I think people will often say or do things they wouldn't normally say or do to get hired at a job.  And I highly doubt RMA or CEDU gave any more full and complete of a picture of what they did to new hires than they did to our parents before we arrived there.  And then you take in to account that some of these newly hired staff arrived from out of state, you could get to wonder if they'd be willing to just quit immediately after a week or two? Faced with the idea of moving again, which is costly, finding a new job again, which takes time?

Maybe they were eager for work, not questioning a lot during the interview assuming, and probably with good reason, that this was a normal work place dedicated to helping kids (Because if it was abusive yet had been around for decades wouldn't someone have shut them down?) that has been around for decades...So it must be a worthwhile job.  And with CEDU and RMA not telling them the whole story before they were hired, many probably just took the job figuring it was going to be a great work experience and nothing more.  Afterward, who knows?  A lot of people hate their job but don't quit.  I had a brother in law who worked for Safeway while going to college.  Got his Masters, married my sister.  My sister got pregnant soon after so he needed his medical insurane from Safeway so that put the job change on hold.  My niece got very sick after her birth and he stayed on with Safeway because his medical insurance covered everything.  Then a year later my sister got injured and again he had to stick around because a new job might not provide the same coverage.  Then came my nephew.  And then my sister needed a very expensive surgery.  So despite his desire to leave, circumstances kept coming up where he didn't.  Changing jobs isn't always a simple thing.  And as I mentioned in a previous post, I heard that the CEDU schools had a tendency to let you know they'd make your life impossible if you left.  Not sure how true that is, but I am sure there are many reasons why various staff, who might have been normal people like Brett and Lisa Carey, stayed on despite what was happening around them.  

Nils Tonsman (I think that was the name of the German teacher RMA hired in 1985) was from Germany.  Imagine traveling all that way for a job to teach German, and then finding out what you had gotten in to.  Leaving would be a tough choice.  Your options limited.  A secure job versus insecurity and unemployment.  His green card might have depended on his staying employed.  

And Dr. Nikki Bush from ASTART, when interviewed in Liam's CEDU Documentary, specifically mentions a staff member coming up to her before she had even fully unpacked her car, telling her the place was crazy, she wouldn't like it...  So despite this, Dr. Bush stayed on a bit longer to see what was up, and the other staff member knowing what was true, was still there.  However, that staff member had to know that the grapevine at CEDU/RMA and the backstabbing and desire to look good could easily have caused this side conversation with Nikki Bush to eventually come out.  That she had warned a new staff arriving?  Full time for a student.  Was that staff member strong for staying, strong for warning others?  Or stupid to stay?  

Many students bought in to the program as well.  Surrounded by so many people either looking good and faking it or truly drunk on Kool Aid, there was no way of knowing which, but possibly a tendency to fit in and accept it all or fake it yourself.  Staff too had to have experienced this same thing.  I am sure most who arrived who were not former students would have to have thought what they were seeing and witnessing was very strange.  But went along with it, hoping to be enlightened as to why this was somehow good and not bad?  I mean, these people convinced our parents, played our parents off on us, manipulated all communication, controlled everything they possibly could...  I think they went out of their way to screen new hires to find the weakest willed, yet those capable of abuse or at least tolerating it, to come work for them.  They created...or rather stole their system, and so they had a good idea of how to use it to get what they wanted.  And it worked.  I think students and staff and parents were all prone to accept it.  

Sorry I went off on a tangent there.  Your post above wasn't entirely about what I just commented on.

[Anonymous]

No I get it. It turns out that an old friend of mine did about 3 months on staff at a brat camp (he posted his story in the bratcamp thread) On day 1 he felt like this was not what he imagined but did not want to seem like a quitter. He also was not from the US so wondered if it was a cultural difference ext. There ended up being about 10 excuses he made to himself for staying even though he did not like the program at all and thought it was actually damaging to the kids. It wasnt until a kid fainted and was not immediately given medical attention that he decided that he thought the place was crazy and that by working there he was a part of the abuse of the kids.

I can definitely see how the physical isolation and sheer start up costs would deter a young grad from quitting. Nobody wants to go home at christmas feeling like they could not cut it in the post collegiate world.

[Che Gookin]

No I get it. It turns out that an old friend of mine did about 3 months on staff at a brat camp (he posted his story in the bratcamp thread) On day 1 he felt like this was not what he imagined but did not want to seem like a quitter. He also was not from the US so wondered if it was a cultural difference ext. There ended up being about 10 excuses he made to himself for staying even though he did not like the program at all and thought it was actually damaging to the kids. It wasnt until a kid fainted and was not immediately given medical attention that he decided that he thought the place was crazy and that by working there he was a part of the abuse of the kids.

I can definitely see how the physical isolation and sheer start up costs would deter a young grad from quitting. Nobody wants to go home at christmas feeling like they could not cut it in the post collegiate world.

Lol, I know this poster. Nice to see you around. Don't be a stranger.

[Anonymous]

I will attest that the staff when i was there would talk in raps about their personal lives including friendships with people outside the school. They would say they had to be on bans with some friends who weren't part of the program. I remember brett and carey doing the same things with people who were making some negative decisions that they couldn't be around and blah blah.

the place was a cult. the staff who worked there always fell into line, because they were there all the time and didn't have time to rampage with logger drunks on the outside. their livlihoods still depended on making themselves look good to the school. Look at the staff who lived on campus for more clues about how far it went to their heads...they believed in mels "vision". or they're interepretation. everyone played their parts. the staff I mean. the kids you could count on to fall into line or they were gone in a heartbeat. the staff...jeez. i just can't. but nice previous posts.

[RMA Survivor]

I will attest that the staff when i was there would talk in raps about their personal lives including friendships with people outside the school. They would say they had to be on bans with some friends who weren't part of the program. I remember brett and carey doing the same things with people who were making some negative decisions that they couldn't be around and blah blah.

the place was a cult. the staff who worked there always fell into line, because they were there all the time and didn't have time to rampage with logger drunks on the outside. their livlihoods still depended on making themselves look good to the school. Look at the staff who lived on campus for more clues about how far it went to their heads...they believed in mels "vision". or they're interepretation. everyone played their parts. the staff I mean. the kids you could count on to fall into line or they were gone in a heartbeat. the staff...jeez. i just can't. but nice previous posts.

Now THIS is testimony that clearly points to the cult aspects of Mel Wasserman's "vision".  That staff felt comfortable banning themselves, or being banned by the school from interacting with people they knew on the outside.  And to talk about their own lives before and during their stays there, it seemed like so many of them were so much more "fucked up" than the students were.  Hearing staff talk about some of the insane stuff they did, criminal activities, drug use and so on.  And they all felt that since they had gone through issues, this somehow qualified them to be therapists themselves and solve everyone's problems.  

To get so sucked in to the cult, as a staff member, that you felt you had to divulge your own lives to total strangers seems so bizarre.  I mean, I can understand an actual therapist giving related feedback to a patient as a way of making a patient feel a little more comfortable and at ease so they will get more in touch with what they are feeling, but this is a different sort of calculated process.  The therapist would not feel obligated to share or compelled to share but would only do so in order to help the patient.  But most times the therapist does not insert themselves in to the patients therapy, but rather sits back and focuses on having the patient share with them, in a private setting, what troubles them.  I could not imagine going to a therapist who was crying and yelling at a Kleenex box sharing their feelings with me in the room with them.  I would run for the door.  

But yes, their livelihoods certainly depending on them acting in a certain way to please and fit in.  I guess a lot of jobs require some level of fitting in, but obviously not on this level.  And as students, some of our punishments (well all of them) involved being banned from various people and activities including being banned from speaking to our own family members.  I know on my full time I was banned from the entire school save two or three staff, banned from everyone outside of campus including my mother, father and siblings.  Could you imagine taking a job where they would ban you from interacting with your spouse, children, former friends and associates?  What a power trip!  And to accept that?  I can't even imagine allowing an employer to assume such authority over my personal life.  

Great post HHb.