Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Portrait of Art

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GregFL:

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And personally, I'm as offended by the Drug Free America types as I am by the stoners who argue that toking up is a sacrement (yeah I know it is for some and peyote is sacred too and all that but whatever)...but let's just admit that not all mind altering experiences are done to improve self or society but for the fun of getting fucked up...or to self-medicate.
 "

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Smoking pot as a sacrament? I reject that outright.

I think of pot smokers very similar as alcohol users or tranqualizer poppers. Most of them are self medicating or recreating.  I find no personal offense in it. I don't think they should be arrested nor do I care to join them. The drug war itself is another subject I have very strong feelings about.

Using any substance, whether it be pot or alchohol, has varying affects on different people. Pot is a big negative for me, and I choose not to.  My choice and I am happy with it. You wanna smoke, be my guest. I won't think less of you unless you do it in a destructive way.  same with alcohol, you wanna have a glass of wine, be my guest. You wanna polish off the bottle, get sloppy and make an ass out of yourself and your friends, no thanks.

cleveland:
One important point I want to make here is, that Art had the potential for abuse given the system that was set up at the Seed - and as far as I know, he didn't abuse it.

Outside of playing endless games of football and baseball (and making sure Art's team always won), what else was he gaining? I mean, he could have been taking advantage of women in the program, and there was no evidence of that at all.

Greg elsewhere here has posted regarding the financial aspect of the Seed, and perhaps there is some truth to that. I know that Seed graduates set up businesses, some with Art's assistance, but I don't know if he profited or not. As far as money raised by the Seed, I don't know. We were so frugal, everything was Spartan. Art lived a simple life as far as I could see.

Even though it seems that Sembler and others abused their power in Seed-type offshoots, I think Art was by and large honorable. I've never seen evidence to the contrary.

I don't think this excuses the flaws of the Seed at all to me, but I think speculation, character attacks and baseless acusations weaken an honest assessment of the positives and negatives of our personal experiences, and a thorough assessment of where this effort to help people came to be oppressive and unsustainable.

Anonymous:
I think from hearing the posts of you guys that were in there for the final years that the seed was a much different place in the 80s than it was in its heyday in the early 70s.

But Cleveland, Art gained what he wanted which was to be hero worshipped. He couldn't get a large group to do it in the 70s so he increasingly brought his group smaller and smaller and made his world the same.

Maybe Art didn't have all the money I once thought he had, but tell me...what do you think that property was worth on SR84? What about the land he sold for a shopping center? What about his "senior holding" deals he has? What is in their one wonders?

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---One of the negative results is evident in some of the long termers that post here. They have found themselves in their forties or fifties, not well socialized to the real world, no children, no sex life to speak of and somewhat confused about their experience trying to make sense out of what happened.

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hi greg do u think thisis why some did not marry for years

GregFL:
maybe that question is better directed at these people here. Maybe they can answer better since they were there and experienced it firsthand. I do know that if you were "IN" at the seed, your potential marrying mates were limited to other seedlings and then the dates had to be approved by Art...and for some damn strange reason, none of these seedlings had kids.  Someone answer why please.  Was Art Opposed to Kids? What was the deal?

Are you the anon that wishes to speak to me via phone? If so, please Message me now so I can call you because I am going out of country thursday for 4 days.

Thanks.  Looking forward to speaking to you.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-10-25 08:52 ]

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