Author Topic: St.Pete straight 1979  (Read 38174 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #210 on: April 01, 2006, 03:44:00 PM »
As fars As Aimee Murphy - I heard she had a BAD stroke some years back. - Mike Murphy has not been with her for years

Marnie Sykes
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #211 on: April 01, 2006, 05:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-01 11:08:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-01 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:



 I do believe I was helped by the program and I needed it at that partucular time in my life."




Stop smoking angel dust.  I don't buy for half a second that you didn't think or didn't know that what happened every day at Straight was fucking abusive.  You are/were either insane, blind, incredibly stupid, or a goddamn liar trying to cover up your complicity in abuse.  You were paid to abuse children.  How do you "feel about that", Staffer?  Straight didn't help anyone, you included.  You "needed Straight at that time in your life" like you needed to have your arm removed because you had a hangnail.  You need a fucking lobotomy if you still think you were "helped by Straight" or that you were "one of the good staff".  Get high, get fucked, and fuck off.  



Also, I'm curious, was your brother Ken Sykes in St. Petersburg?  What happened to that poor kid day in and day out was fucking cruel and inhuman, even by Straight's standards.  The kid (his dad worked for Lockheed or Honeywell, or some defense contractor) was fucking obviously mentally challenged, and his kind and loving family put him is Straight to further aggravate the situation.



PEople like you really make me fucking puke.  You take NO responsibility for the abuse you participated in , every goddamn day (ironic, isn't it, that after preaching 'take responsibility for your actions' all the time that you refuse to do so yourself---fucking hypocrite).



Stop shovelling shit my way, and stop bullshitting yourself.  You were a paid professional child abuser, and you think it was OK because you are too stupid to see through the lies you help to propagate.



Fuck off.[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2006-04-01 11:09 ]"


Sounds like you're stuck in the past my friend.  I stand by what I said. Despite what YOU think, there are people that actually were helped.  And no, I did not see the abuses that have been described here. Sorry. Yes there were staffers who were on power trips and tried to abuse what power they had.  Dave Crock was the biggest asshole there was.  I was intimdated by him  and he was the primary reason I left.  I was taught that I didn't need to be embarassed and humiliated because I made a mistake in running a rap.  So, I grew some balls, quit and got back to the real world where I could simply get fired if I fucked up at work; I could have have a girlfriend; and I couold go to school like a normal kid.

Look, you will never believe me and I will always stand by what I said.  You see, I don't back down by overbearing assholes anymore.  Straight wasn't a vavcation for me, but I think it's what I, not you or anyone else, needed at the time.  Peace.  

This email is not from Marnie.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #212 on: April 01, 2006, 05:40:00 PM »
Soun's like yer stuck in th' past mah friend, cuss it all t' tarnation. ah stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Despite whut YOU reckon, thar is varmints thet acshully were he'ped, cuss it all t' tarnation. An' no, ah did not see th' abuses thet haf been dexcribed hyar. So'ry. Yessuh thar were staffers who were on power trips an' tried t'abuse whut power they had, cuss it all t' tarnation. Abner Crock was th' mos' trimenjus asshole thar was. ah was intimdated by him an' he was th' primary reason ah lef'. ah was taught thet ah didn't need t'be embareessed an' hoomiliated on account o' ah made a mistake in runnin' a rap. So, ah grew some balls, quit an' got back t'th' real wo'ld whar ah c'd simply git fired eff'n ah fucked up at wawk; ah c'd haf have a galfriend; an' ah couold hoof it to skoo like a no'mal kid, cuss it all t' tarnation.

Look, yo' will nevah believe me an' ah will allus stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Yo' see, ah doesn't back down by on overbarin' assholes ennymo'e. Straight warn't a vavcashun fo' me, but ah reckon it's whut I, notcha o' ennyone else, needed at th' time. Peace.

This hyar email is not fum Marnie.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #213 on: April 01, 2006, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-01 14:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Soun's like yer stuck in th' past mah friend, cuss it all t' tarnation. ah stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Despite whut YOU reckon, thar is varmints thet acshully were he'ped, cuss it all t' tarnation. An' no, ah did not see th' abuses thet haf been dexcribed hyar. So'ry. Yessuh thar were staffers who were on power trips an' tried t'abuse whut power they had, cuss it all t' tarnation. Abner Crock was th' mos' trimenjus asshole thar was. ah was intimdated by him an' he was th' primary reason ah lef'. ah was taught thet ah didn't need t'be embareessed an' hoomiliated on account o' ah made a mistake in runnin' a rap. So, ah grew some balls, quit an' got back t'th' real wo'ld whar ah c'd simply git fired eff'n ah fucked up at wawk; ah c'd haf have a galfriend; an' ah couold hoof it to skoo like a no'mal kid, cuss it all t' tarnation.



Look, yo' will nevah believe me an' ah will allus stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Yo' see, ah doesn't back down by on overbarin' assholes ennymo'e. Straight warn't a vavcashun fo' me, but ah reckon it's whut I, notcha o' ennyone else, needed at th' time. Peace.



This hyar email is not fum Marnie."


wow; snoop dog must be your daddy nigger boy
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #214 on: April 01, 2006, 07:14:00 PM »
Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.

Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.

But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?

You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?

Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.

How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.

Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them!  ::puke::

There's just so much more. Every minute of every day, what with all the snitch culture, fear of anyone discovering how fucking miserable you were and holding your feet to the fire till you confessed your private "bad thoughts" to the entire group so they could swarm like hungry pirhanas and tear apart, analyze, condemn and degrade your very soul while staff (you) mused over just which kind of torture to impose for the crime of being honest about that place being a fucking unending nightmare.

I'm glad I knew better than to ever tell you anything real or important.

See, to me, this kind of warped culture had been SOP since I was around 6. By the time I was 9 or so I knew it was fucked up and I was just going to have to play the game till I came of age and could book it to some other state and, finally, finally, be myself for once in my sorry assed life. Straight was, from my point of view, a monumental hassle, boring, a waste of time, depressing, infuriating, frustrating, but not eternal. Unlike most of the rest of you, I also knew very well that you get out eventually. It was a sanity saver. I couldn't have put it into words at the time. I tried a couple of times when I was hitchhiking around and someone would ask what was so bad that I was running from. I just couldn't really explain it.

What I didn't know is that you people didn't have that edge. Without that edge, it was more than just unpleasant in the moment. It was a very effective mindfuck. People were broken, damaged, even driven to suicide and other desperate measures slowly but slowly, by degrees, right in front of us. Worse? We all helped do it to them. We had to, at least to some degree, just to survive.

Worse still? When we had done our job effectively and someone really did finally have a total nervous breakdown, we all joined in (willingly or not) in pointing and clucking and damning them, "What a shame, what a shame! See, we knew that kid was fucked up and in need of help. What a cryin shame he didn't accept the help we so generously offered." And then they were shunned, after however long isolated from the real world and having had a scorched Earth campaign run on their lives.

Sorry as hell I didn't recognize back then that I had an unfair advantage. Because I didn't know that, I played my role, delivered my lines and just assumed it wasn't effecting anybody. I'll always be sorry as hell for that.

And you might think I'm being cruel or bitter or can't get over it and that I should just be polite and leave your fantasies intact. Why put you through it, right? What other motive could I possibly have except to inflict pain on you.

Well that's not my motive. I remember you well, Marnie. And you too, Speed Racer. Both of you are unusually kind, decent people, if a bit misguided. And I've often wondered how you made out. I'm sure everyone who knows you sees how kind you are and they probably trust your advice. So what happens when someone asks your advice in dealing with their troubled, rebellious or pot smoking kid?

If you don't know what the fuck you did, if you still persist in shading it in soft, glowing terms, except for the things those other, overtly sadistic staffers and inmates did, you'd probably help them find a TC for that kid, one based on the same fucked up model, but one that does a slightly better job of hiding the casualties. So your fantasies and your good intentions might very well result in some other kids being broken and demoralized, their lives trashed and their families and friends taken away from them of you ain't got the guts to face what we did in there.

All good intentions aside, that makes you very dangerous people. Those comforting lies can be very expensive to innocent others.

If you don't want to talk about the real dear, you'll have to make yourself a private forum where you can delete those ideas you don't care to entertain. If you're going to engage on this topic without censorship and control, sorry guys. Again, you're very nice people and I remember you both very fondly. But this is for real.

The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #215 on: April 01, 2006, 07:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-01 15:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

Quote

On 2006-04-01 14:40:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Soun's like yer stuck in th' past mah friend, cuss it all t' tarnation. ah stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Despite whut YOU reckon, thar is varmints thet acshully were he'ped, cuss it all t' tarnation. An' no, ah did not see th' abuses thet haf been dexcribed hyar. So'ry. Yessuh thar were staffers who were on power trips an' tried t'abuse whut power they had, cuss it all t' tarnation. Abner Crock was th' mos' trimenjus asshole thar was. ah was intimdated by him an' he was th' primary reason ah lef'. ah was taught thet ah didn't need t'be embareessed an' hoomiliated on account o' ah made a mistake in runnin' a rap. So, ah grew some balls, quit an' got back t'th' real wo'ld whar ah c'd simply git fired eff'n ah fucked up at wawk; ah c'd haf have a galfriend; an' ah couold hoof it to skoo like a no'mal kid, cuss it all t' tarnation.





Look, yo' will nevah believe me an' ah will allus stan' by whut ah said, cuss it all t' tarnation. Yo' see, ah doesn't back down by on overbarin' assholes ennymo'e. Straight warn't a vavcashun fo' me, but ah reckon it's whut I, notcha o' ennyone else, needed at th' time. Peace.





This hyar email is not fum Marnie."




wow; snoop dog must be your daddy nigger boy"

That was a "redneck" translation ya fukkin moron!  :lol:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #216 on: April 01, 2006, 08:04:00 PM »
And, by the way...

Quote
On 2005-08-25 14:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

I used to be a junior staff member in Sarasota and led raps to try and make people think and guess at what we were actually talking about. Little did most people know I had no idea what I the topic was either.


Yeah, right? It was just so much fun having to kiss your ass and pretend you were soooo fuckin clever. Just another little brick in the wall, John. I'm just so glad to hear you got off on our humiliation.

My advice is: invest in Kentucky Fried Peking Duck franchises.
http://radioinsidescoop.com/mt-posts-archive/000511.html' target='_new'>G.I. Joe at November 20, 2005

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #217 on: April 02, 2006, 08:20:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-04-01 16:14:00, Eudora wrote:

"Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.



Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.



But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?



You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?



Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.



How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.



Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them!  ::puke::



There's just so much more. Every minute of every day, what with all the snitch culture, fear of anyone discovering how fucking miserable you were and holding your feet to the fire till you confessed your private "bad thoughts" to the entire group so they could swarm like hungry pirhanas and tear apart, analyze, condemn and degrade your very soul while staff (you) mused over just which kind of torture to impose for the crime of being honest about that place being a fucking unending nightmare.



I'm glad I knew better than to ever tell you anything real or important.



See, to me, this kind of warped culture had been SOP since I was around 6. By the time I was 9 or so I knew it was fucked up and I was just going to have to play the game till I came of age and could book it to some other state and, finally, finally, be myself for once in my sorry assed life. Straight was, from my point of view, a monumental hassle, boring, a waste of time, depressing, infuriating, frustrating, but not eternal. Unlike most of the rest of you, I also knew very well that you get out eventually. It was a sanity saver. I couldn't have put it into words at the time. I tried a couple of times when I was hitchhiking around and someone would ask what was so bad that I was running from. I just couldn't really explain it.



What I didn't know is that you people didn't have that edge. Without that edge, it was more than just unpleasant in the moment. It was a very effective mindfuck. People were broken, damaged, even driven to suicide and other desperate measures slowly but slowly, by degrees, right in front of us. Worse? We all helped do it to them. We had to, at least to some degree, just to survive.



Worse still? When we had done our job effectively and someone really did finally have a total nervous breakdown, we all joined in (willingly or not) in pointing and clucking and damning them, "What a shame, what a shame! See, we knew that kid was fucked up and in need of help. What a cryin shame he didn't accept the help we so generously offered." And then they were shunned, after however long isolated from the real world and having had a scorched Earth campaign run on their lives.



Sorry as hell I didn't recognize back then that I had an unfair advantage. Because I didn't know that, I played my role, delivered my lines and just assumed it wasn't effecting anybody. I'll always be sorry as hell for that.



And you might think I'm being cruel or bitter or can't get over it and that I should just be polite and leave your fantasies intact. Why put you through it, right? What other motive could I possibly have except to inflict pain on you.



Well that's not my motive. I remember you well, Marnie. And you too, Speed Racer. Both of you are unusually kind, decent people, if a bit misguided. And I've often wondered how you made out. I'm sure everyone who knows you sees how kind you are and they probably trust your advice. So what happens when someone asks your advice in dealing with their troubled, rebellious or pot smoking kid?



If you don't know what the fuck you did, if you still persist in shading it in soft, glowing terms, except for the things those other, overtly sadistic staffers and inmates did, you'd probably help them find a TC for that kid, one based on the same fucked up model, but one that does a slightly better job of hiding the casualties. So your fantasies and your good intentions might very well result in some other kids being broken and demoralized, their lives trashed and their families and friends taken away from them of you ain't got the guts to face what we did in there.



All good intentions aside, that makes you very dangerous people. Those comforting lies can be very expensive to innocent others.



If you don't want to talk about the real dear, you'll have to make yourself a private forum where you can delete those ideas you don't care to entertain. If you're going to engage on this topic without censorship and control, sorry guys. Again, you're very nice people and I remember you both very fondly. But this is for real.

The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.


"


You ask for staffers to post here to gain insight.  If it doesn't fit into your perspective, you go off on a tirade.  Justified? Absolutely.  But, as I've said before, I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the same things either in the program or on staff.  Sorry to disappoint.  This is my perspective whether or not you belive me or think I'm a sadistic fuck.  

I'm sorry I don't remember you because it might help to understand things a little better.  By the way, I would never recommend any type of program like Straight for treatment of drug use.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #218 on: April 02, 2006, 11:46:00 AM »
Tirade? "a protracted speech usually marked by intemperate, vituperative, or harshly censorious language"? Really? That's a little dismissive.

I really am trying to understand. I'm sorry you don't remember me. Really. You remind me very much of my brother. Same thing, basically. He just loved the Seed. Went through twice and called it voluntary. Takes anything I have to say about it as vile balsphemey and personal insult. But he never did put his kids into such a program. I'm glad he didn't! But it's just really confusing.

How can you have been in St. Pete up until Sarasota moved off and not seen what everyone else did? I don't know much from St. Pete. cause I came in just a couple of weeks before the split off. But I believe these people. And things did't change much after the move. For example, don't you think it's cruel to keep kids from ever getting enough sleep then punish them for dozing off? That happened once to me in St. Pete. and the policy never changed after the move. Oh, how about reading people's personal journals in front of the whole damned group and then having a nice li'll group critique of the content? Do you think that's a decent thing to do? Would you do that to someone now?  
 
Where you there when Wanda Minton came down? Remember Charles Pendergrast and how much he enjoyed making little girls cry? Seriously, do you think all that singing and smiling was sincere and spontanious? To this day?

I just don't get it. If it was so helpful and you don't remembery any of the fucked up parts, even though you were in on all levels, then why would you never send anyone to a place like that?

Again, not making an accusation, just sincerely trying to understand.

science is the record of dead religions.
--Oscar Wilde

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Offline Woof-a-Doof

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« Reply #219 on: April 02, 2006, 12:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-02 05:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-01 16:14:00, Eudora wrote:


"Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.





Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.





But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?





You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?





Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.





How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.





Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them!  ::puke::





There's just so much more. Every minute of every day, what with all the snitch culture, fear of anyone discovering how fucking miserable you were and holding your feet to the fire till you confessed your private "bad thoughts" to the entire group so they could swarm like hungry pirhanas and tear apart, analyze, condemn and degrade your very soul while staff (you) mused over just which kind of torture to impose for the crime of being honest about that place being a fucking unending nightmare.





I'm glad I knew better than to ever tell you anything real or important.





See, to me, this kind of warped culture had been SOP since I was around 6. By the time I was 9 or so I knew it was fucked up and I was just going to have to play the game till I came of age and could book it to some other state and, finally, finally, be myself for once in my sorry assed life. Straight was, from my point of view, a monumental hassle, boring, a waste of time, depressing, infuriating, frustrating, but not eternal. Unlike most of the rest of you, I also knew very well that you get out eventually. It was a sanity saver. I couldn't have put it into words at the time. I tried a couple of times when I was hitchhiking around and someone would ask what was so bad that I was running from. I just couldn't really explain it.





What I didn't know is that you people didn't have that edge. Without that edge, it was more than just unpleasant in the moment. It was a very effective mindfuck. People were broken, damaged, even driven to suicide and other desperate measures slowly but slowly, by degrees, right in front of us. Worse? We all helped do it to them. We had to, at least to some degree, just to survive.





Worse still? When we had done our job effectively and someone really did finally have a total nervous breakdown, we all joined in (willingly or not) in pointing and clucking and damning them, "What a shame, what a shame! See, we knew that kid was fucked up and in need of help. What a cryin shame he didn't accept the help we so generously offered." And then they were shunned, after however long isolated from the real world and having had a scorched Earth campaign run on their lives.





Sorry as hell I didn't recognize back then that I had an unfair advantage. Because I didn't know that, I played my role, delivered my lines and just assumed it wasn't effecting anybody. I'll always be sorry as hell for that.





And you might think I'm being cruel or bitter or can't get over it and that I should just be polite and leave your fantasies intact. Why put you through it, right? What other motive could I possibly have except to inflict pain on you.





Well that's not my motive. I remember you well, Marnie. And you too, Speed Racer. Both of you are unusually kind, decent people, if a bit misguided. And I've often wondered how you made out. I'm sure everyone who knows you sees how kind you are and they probably trust your advice. So what happens when someone asks your advice in dealing with their troubled, rebellious or pot smoking kid?





If you don't know what the fuck you did, if you still persist in shading it in soft, glowing terms, except for the things those other, overtly sadistic staffers and inmates did, you'd probably help them find a TC for that kid, one based on the same fucked up model, but one that does a slightly better job of hiding the casualties. So your fantasies and your good intentions might very well result in some other kids being broken and demoralized, their lives trashed and their families and friends taken away from them of you ain't got the guts to face what we did in there.





All good intentions aside, that makes you very dangerous people. Those comforting lies can be very expensive to innocent others.





If you don't want to talk about the real dear, you'll have to make yourself a private forum where you can delete those ideas you don't care to entertain. If you're going to engage on this topic without censorship and control, sorry guys. Again, you're very nice people and I remember you both very fondly. But this is for real.


The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.



"




You ask for staffers to post here to gain insight.  If it doesn't fit into your perspective, you go off on a tirade.  Justified? Absolutely.  But, as I've said before, I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the same things either in the program or on staff.  Sorry to disappoint.  This is my perspective whether or not you belive me or think I'm a sadistic fuck.  



I'm sorry I don't remember you because it might help to understand things a little better.  By the way, I would never recommend any type of program like Straight for treatment of drug use.  "


Sorry for this long post...Ya know...Sunday morning...Jamacian Blue Mountain Coffee and Babbling Botanicals or Chatter Weed...at any rate...be forewarned...this is a long ass post

"Not all of us staff members knew of the mistreatment that was going on. I was on staff in Sarasota at the very beginning and did not see the things that have been shared here. "

Hmmm, sounds very familiar and certainly runs parallel to an early post (which I think you wrote) that said---

"I used to be a junior staff member in Sarasota and led raps to try and make people think and guess at what we were actually talking about. Little did most people know I had no idea what I the topic was either."

In both instances that I have quoted you claim to be completely oblivious to the world around you. You had no clue...YOU HAD NO CLUE??? Huh?

I was incarcerated before you John, and much of the more systematic/sadistic/systemic abuse took place after my time. But was is abuntantly clear to me...justa pee-on client...was that the ground work that paved the way for such abuses was set long before I even got there. You, came in after I did, and you could not have escaped what other people did not.

It amazes me, astounds me, that the
hate/fear/distrust/anger/deception/cruelty/humiliation/intimidation that a whole
group experienced (and remeber very clearly to this day) witnessed and participated on a daily basis...that you, somehow did not observe (much less experience) any of this. Before the extreme phyisical violence there was the subtle physical violence. And what preceded that was the blatant mental and emotional violence...which I have said, preceeded and or paved the way to the wholesale acceptance of physical abuse....and ya didnt experience or witness any of this???

Hate to use the phrase....But where in the fuck was your awareness...

I read and have read several times that you sincerly believe you helped people. There is an arrogance about this that just makes me seethe in rage. Such Arrogance! You as the "helper" (if you really helped) can have no earthly idea if
you helped or not. In the same breath, I think you may not know the damage you may have created. And still there is an effort to entertain the illusion that you are sheltered from your past...because you were just helping. I couldn't or rather I "didn't see the abuse because I was too busy "helping people". That sounds like Mother Theresa not admitting poverty & starvation because she was too busy tending to the leppers.

Giving you the benifit of the doubt...I will venture to say that perhaps (maybe) your use of the word "help" or "helping" is in and of itself misleading. Not knowing (remembering) you personally, I rely on what you have said and what others have said about you. My idea of you is that of a decent person. That you are kind and thoughtfull of yourself and the world around you. That being said...Think of this as a matter of semantics. You, back then...back in the day "extended your hand" to others (and called it "helping"). Your focus was on that "extended hand". What you have not noticed or have yet to relise is that Straight had your "other hand" and you had no idea then (or now apparently) what Straight was doing with the "other hand". Fertile ground for the "Messiah Complex" to take root.

All behavior at some point was accepted and promoted under the guise of "theraphy". Upon my arrival at the Milton Roy building there already was an air of intimidation about the staff, the groups responce was fear.  

Remember "Running"...being hauled around the preimiter of the building by the belt loop running as hard as they could push you....remember that? Recall the "Exercise
Raps" where individual puddles of sweat merged into one big puddle...remember people passing out and landing on thier faces...It was important that we had exercise in our "therapy" right? Remember that part (a huge part) of our "theraphy" was...um...CONFRONTATION. On the surface, confrontation sounds logical and so it
was a justified means of "treatment". John, you never got stood up and raked over the coals? Ok, so ya didnt get slammed to the floor, thrown into time out, have a staff member hump your ass while 5-6 people held ya down and 6-7 stood and
watched...BUt I know you had to have been "stood up" and you felt defensless as "we" systematically took you appart...How many times had you sat in group...terrified of being stood up....TERRIFIED. No one learns from a teacher that employs terroistic measures...I think it was you who said that you had no idea what
you were talking about while leading the groups...and yet it was justified "theraphy"...Dude, thats pretty fucked up right there. While you had no idea what
you were talking about (which you admitted) and their were kids infront of you terrified....TERRIFIED.

Then consider our "leadership"...Forever it seemed Helen Peterman was the heart and soul of the program...oh yeah Jim Hartz to. But Mz Pete was in control...we knew it...staff knew it...parents knew it. It sucked. It really sucked bad. There seemed no end. Then somewhere along the line someone relized there were no
licensed professionals associated with the program.

Enter George Ross...a baffoon, really....seriously, a baffoon. I was on my second third phase about that time...just entering the 4th phase when George made his
presence. The whole rational self anaylisis thing brought about a hyper-awreness of
ourselves and our surroundings. To further control a continually unsettled group this
crap was used increasingly against each other in groups.

Together this combination of the intimidation and fear that Helen brought to the table with George Ross's baffonish intellect where simply a breeding ground once Miller Newton came into the picture. Miller brought cruelty (in the name of
theraphy) to a whole new level. Thank god he was only there for last months of my incarceration in Straight.

My point is that Straight got progressively worse and to add insult, it was done in the
name of "theraphy". Conditions that staff brought about and which we allowed thru
our own compliance. Because we were compliant and acting participants (in some way shape or form) and the mindset we were to employ made it easy for the likes of Miller Newton to charm and destroy. Any cult worth it's salt has that...a
charismatic leader. And each of our "leaders" were charismatic...cept George.

As I said, I was a pee-on client...and I was there same time as you were. I didn't suffer at your hands....no, thats not the point. But you were there, you suffered because of staff...I know ya did...and you went on to the same group that inflicted the suffering. And in your best honesty you say " I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the
same things either in the program or on staff." Ok, maybe...I cant relate to Atlanta, Orlando, Sarasota or any other program in another location long long after I was
there.

But dude...I know what it was like when I got there and I know what the group was like when you got there. We made it possible for the horrors that you read on this site. The very least I can do is to not disrespect any of those who were locked up long after I was gone. I do it very simply, I discuss my experience. Spending energy to write about what I did not experience is not only a waste of time but
antagonises and disrespects those who have. And as I have said, it comes across as most arrogant...as if implying it never happened.

This denial, this illusion that Straight was a good thing is so easy to pop thru...to
those who experienced it. Example, this year after 27 years I got together with a
cousin, who also went thru Straight...long after I did. In our first change to talk, at
some point in the conversation he suddenly blurted out "Well, just gotta apply the
first step I guess"...I was stunned! I asked him, "Do you really believe what you just said...could you show me an example of how that would help?" He lowered his head and his voice and said humbly, "No". By that point it was like not talking about the white elephant in the room and I couldnt stand it, so I made another reference to Straight and he got real firm and said, "It's not something I talk about!" to which I replied....Dude, your my cousin, my blood, and you experienced what I did and worse...this IS the time to talk about it. Within minutes he began a one way conversation about his experience in Straight and the time following.

It amazed he and I both that he was some what still a Straight supporter and he rang the very same bell that you do...it helped me and I helped others...the moment of dis-illuisionment was painfull for my cousin, which seemed odd
because dis-illusion was suppossed to be a good thing. He let go of years of bullshit, finally he was with someone he could say exactly how he felt with no reprisal he would have surely gotten from his immediate family if he spoke honestly about his experience at Straight.


BTW: Marnie and Marti...two different people right?

I knew a Marti...Heath was it? If memory serves me she slapped the living fuck out of Chriss Casslor (how ever ya spell his name)once. She slapped him when he got real close, she was on front row. He was stunned and further pushed her to slap him again if it made her feel better...so she did and knocked him way the fuck back...atta girl marti
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #220 on: April 02, 2006, 02:03:00 PM »
On 2006-04-01 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-01 11:08:00, RTP2003 wrote:


"
Quote


On 2006-04-01 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:





 I do believe I was helped by the program and I needed it at that partucular time in my life."







Stop smoking angel dust.  I don't buy for half a second that you didn't think or didn't know that what happened every day at Straight was fucking abusive.  You are/were either insane, blind, incredibly stupid, or a goddamn liar trying to cover up your complicity in abuse.  You were paid to abuse children.  How do you "feel about that", Staffer?  Straight didn't help anyone, you included.  You "needed Straight at that time in your life" like you needed to have your arm removed because you had a hangnail.  You need a fucking lobotomy if you still think you were "helped by Straight" or that you were "one of the good staff".  Get high, get fucked, and fuck off.  





Also, I'm curious, was your brother Ken Sykes in St. Petersburg?  What happened to that poor kid day in and day out was fucking cruel and inhuman, even by Straight's standards.  The kid (his dad worked for Lockheed or Honeywell, or some defense contractor) was fucking obviously mentally challenged, and his kind and loving family put him is Straight to further aggravate the situation.





PEople like you really make me fucking puke.  You take NO responsibility for the abuse you participated in , every goddamn day (ironic, isn't it, that after preaching 'take responsibility for your actions' all the time that you refuse to do so yourself---fucking hypocrite).





Stop shovelling shit my way, and stop bullshitting yourself.  You were a paid professional child abuser, and you think it was OK because you are too stupid to see through the lies you help to propagate.





Fuck off.[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2006-04-01 11:09 ]"




Quote

Sounds like you're stuck in the past my friend.

Look, Dickweed, you are no friend of mine. And I am firmly in the present, the here and now, my thinking is "based on objective reality", not through "rose colored glasses", as yours obviously is.  Let's play a little game of pretend.  Let's pretend that there was no physical abuse, no denial of food, water, sleep, or bathroom facilities, that Straight was just about "sharing our feelings" and "working the Program".  OK?   Well, Dickweed, even if that were the case, which it damn sure was NOT, Straight, Inc. would have been a dangerous, harmful institution.  Like the example given by Eudora regarding getting kids to confess to a group of people the most intimate details of their lives, placing the blame on them for being victimized, etc., etc.  

Quote
 I stand by what I said. Despite what YOU think, there are people that actually were helped.

If by "helped" you mean abused, humiliated, degraded, taught to loathe themselves, had their spirits broken, or brainwashed into thinking that they got something good out of Straight, then, yeah, I'd agree that some people were "helped" by Straight, Inc.




Quote
 And no, I did not see the abuses that have been described here.

And I stand by my statement.  You are/were either blind, insane, incredibly stupid, or a goddamn liar.  Right now my money's on "incredibly stupid" or "goddamn liar".


Quote
Look, you will never believe me and I will always stand by what I said.


Damn right I don't believe you, and I will not believe you until you quit selectively editing your memories.  

 


Quote
You see, I don't back down by overbearing assholes anymore.  Straight wasn't a vavcation for me, but I think it's what I, not you or anyone else, needed at the time.  Peace.



So "backing down to overbearing assholes" was a practice required of you in Straight?   Hmmm, continue with that line of thought and maybe you will come a little closer to the truth of the experience you had at Straight.  Personally, I think you were a paid professional child abuser who cannot cope with the guilt you would feel if you admitted it to yourself, so you minimize it by telling yourself "oh, well, at least it helped me.....no vacation to be sure, but it was what I needed".  Even if it was what YOU needed, what about the other 99% of the group?  Are you qualified top make that statement for them?  

Also did you ever verbally humiliate, give consequences to, or order the physical restraint of someone while you were on Staff?  How 'bout lead a rap requiring kids to give out intimate details about personal issues?  Of course you did, you were on staff at Straight.  And that, my non-friend, is child abuse.  and you, my non-friend, as a paid staff member, were a child abuser[/b].


I don't give a flying fuck which child abusing ex-staff member the original email came from, both of yas sound like you're drowning in Kool Aid.[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2006-04-02 11:04 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
RTP2003 fought in defense of the Old Republic

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #221 on: April 02, 2006, 03:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-02 09:07:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

Sorry for this long post...Ya know...Sunday morning...Jamacian Blue Mountain Coffee and Babbling Botanicals or Chatter Weed...at any rate...be forewarned...this is a long ass post


Ooh, just what the doctor ordered! Setting in the soak it up raht about ....now!

Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #222 on: April 02, 2006, 03:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-02 09:07:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

BTW: Marnie and Marti...two different people right?

Truer words were never written.

Quote
I knew a Marti...Heath was it? If memory serves me she slapped the living fuck out of Chriss Casslor (how ever ya spell his name)once. She slapped him when he got real close, she was on front row. He was stunned and further pushed her to slap him again if it made her feel better...so she did and knocked him way the fuck back...atta girl marti


I've heard that story before. God, what I wouldn't give to have been there!

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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Offline seamus

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« Reply #223 on: April 02, 2006, 03:57:00 PM »
The John mentioned here is not John"the undead" Meara just for the record.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #224 on: April 03, 2006, 11:00:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-04-02 09:07:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-04-02 05:20:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2006-04-01 16:14:00, Eudora wrote:



"Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.







Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.







But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?







You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?







Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.







How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.







Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them!  ::puke::







There's just so much more. Every minute of every day, what with all the snitch culture, fear of anyone discovering how fucking miserable you were and holding your feet to the fire till you confessed your private "bad thoughts" to the entire group so they could swarm like hungry pirhanas and tear apart, analyze, condemn and degrade your very soul while staff (you) mused over just which kind of torture to impose for the crime of being honest about that place being a fucking unending nightmare.







I'm glad I knew better than to ever tell you anything real or important.







See, to me, this kind of warped culture had been SOP since I was around 6. By the time I was 9 or so I knew it was fucked up and I was just going to have to play the game till I came of age and could book it to some other state and, finally, finally, be myself for once in my sorry assed life. Straight was, from my point of view, a monumental hassle, boring, a waste of time, depressing, infuriating, frustrating, but not eternal. Unlike most of the rest of you, I also knew very well that you get out eventually. It was a sanity saver. I couldn't have put it into words at the time. I tried a couple of times when I was hitchhiking around and someone would ask what was so bad that I was running from. I just couldn't really explain it.







What I didn't know is that you people didn't have that edge. Without that edge, it was more than just unpleasant in the moment. It was a very effective mindfuck. People were broken, damaged, even driven to suicide and other desperate measures slowly but slowly, by degrees, right in front of us. Worse? We all helped do it to them. We had to, at least to some degree, just to survive.







Worse still? When we had done our job effectively and someone really did finally have a total nervous breakdown, we all joined in (willingly or not) in pointing and clucking and damning them, "What a shame, what a shame! See, we knew that kid was fucked up and in need of help. What a cryin shame he didn't accept the help we so generously offered." And then they were shunned, after however long isolated from the real world and having had a scorched Earth campaign run on their lives.







Sorry as hell I didn't recognize back then that I had an unfair advantage. Because I didn't know that, I played my role, delivered my lines and just assumed it wasn't effecting anybody. I'll always be sorry as hell for that.







And you might think I'm being cruel or bitter or can't get over it and that I should just be polite and leave your fantasies intact. Why put you through it, right? What other motive could I possibly have except to inflict pain on you.







Well that's not my motive. I remember you well, Marnie. And you too, Speed Racer. Both of you are unusually kind, decent people, if a bit misguided. And I've often wondered how you made out. I'm sure everyone who knows you sees how kind you are and they probably trust your advice. So what happens when someone asks your advice in dealing with their troubled, rebellious or pot smoking kid?







If you don't know what the fuck you did, if you still persist in shading it in soft, glowing terms, except for the things those other, overtly sadistic staffers and inmates did, you'd probably help them find a TC for that kid, one based on the same fucked up model, but one that does a slightly better job of hiding the casualties. So your fantasies and your good intentions might very well result in some other kids being broken and demoralized, their lives trashed and their families and friends taken away from them of you ain't got the guts to face what we did in there.







All good intentions aside, that makes you very dangerous people. Those comforting lies can be very expensive to innocent others.







If you don't want to talk about the real dear, you'll have to make yourself a private forum where you can delete those ideas you don't care to entertain. If you're going to engage on this topic without censorship and control, sorry guys. Again, you're very nice people and I remember you both very fondly. But this is for real.



The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.




"







You ask for staffers to post here to gain insight.  If it doesn't fit into your perspective, you go off on a tirade.  Justified? Absolutely.  But, as I've said before, I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the same things either in the program or on staff.  Sorry to disappoint.  This is my perspective whether or not you belive me or think I'm a sadistic fuck.  





I'm sorry I don't remember you because it might help to understand things a little better.  By the way, I would never recommend any type of program like Straight for treatment of drug use.  "




Sorry for this long post...Ya know...Sunday morning...Jamacian Blue Mountain Coffee and Babbling Botanicals or Chatter Weed...at any rate...be forewarned...this is a long ass post



"Not all of us staff members knew of the mistreatment that was going on. I was on staff in Sarasota at the very beginning and did not see the things that have been shared here. "



Hmmm, sounds very familiar and certainly runs parallel to an early post (which I think you wrote) that said---



"I used to be a junior staff member in Sarasota and led raps to try and make people think and guess at what we were actually talking about. Little did most people know I had no idea what I the topic was either."



In both instances that I have quoted you claim to be completely oblivious to the world around you. You had no clue...YOU HAD NO CLUE??? Huh?



I was incarcerated before you John, and much of the more systematic/sadistic/systemic abuse took place after my time. But was is abuntantly clear to me...justa pee-on client...was that the ground work that paved the way for such abuses was set long before I even got there. You, came in after I did, and you could not have escaped what other people did not.



It amazes me, astounds me, that the

hate/fear/distrust/anger/deception/cruelty/humiliation/intimidation that a whole

group experienced (and remeber very clearly to this day) witnessed and participated on a daily basis...that you, somehow did not observe (much less experience) any of this. Before the extreme phyisical violence there was the subtle physical violence. And what preceded that was the blatant mental and emotional violence...which I have said, preceeded and or paved the way to the wholesale acceptance of physical abuse....and ya didnt experience or witness any of this???



Hate to use the phrase....But where in the fuck was your awareness...



I read and have read several times that you sincerly believe you helped people. There is an arrogance about this that just makes me seethe in rage. Such Arrogance! You as the "helper" (if you really helped) can have no earthly idea if

you helped or not. In the same breath, I think you may not know the damage you may have created. And still there is an effort to entertain the illusion that you are sheltered from your past...because you were just helping. I couldn't or rather I "didn't see the abuse because I was too busy "helping people". That sounds like Mother Theresa not admitting poverty & starvation because she was too busy tending to the leppers.



Giving you the benifit of the doubt...I will venture to say that perhaps (maybe) your use of the word "help" or "helping" is in and of itself misleading. Not knowing (remembering) you personally, I rely on what you have said and what others have said about you. My idea of you is that of a decent person. That you are kind and thoughtfull of yourself and the world around you. That being said...Think of this as a matter of semantics. You, back then...back in the day "extended your hand" to others (and called it "helping"). Your focus was on that "extended hand". What you have not noticed or have yet to relise is that Straight had your "other hand" and you had no idea then (or now apparently) what Straight was doing with the "other hand". Fertile ground for the "Messiah Complex" to take root.



All behavior at some point was accepted and promoted under the guise of "theraphy". Upon my arrival at the Milton Roy building there already was an air of intimidation about the staff, the groups responce was fear.  



Remember "Running"...being hauled around the preimiter of the building by the belt loop running as hard as they could push you....remember that? Recall the "Exercise

Raps" where individual puddles of sweat merged into one big puddle...remember people passing out and landing on thier faces...It was important that we had exercise in our "therapy" right? Remember that part (a huge part) of our "theraphy" was...um...CONFRONTATION. On the surface, confrontation sounds logical and so it

was a justified means of "treatment". John, you never got stood up and raked over the coals? Ok, so ya didnt get slammed to the floor, thrown into time out, have a staff member hump your ass while 5-6 people held ya down and 6-7 stood and

watched...BUt I know you had to have been "stood up" and you felt defensless as "we" systematically took you appart...How many times had you sat in group...terrified of being stood up....TERRIFIED. No one learns from a teacher that employs terroistic measures...I think it was you who said that you had no idea what

you were talking about while leading the groups...and yet it was justified "theraphy"...Dude, thats pretty fucked up right there. While you had no idea what

you were talking about (which you admitted) and their were kids infront of you terrified....TERRIFIED.



Then consider our "leadership"...Forever it seemed Helen Peterman was the heart and soul of the program...oh yeah Jim Hartz to. But Mz Pete was in control...we knew it...staff knew it...parents knew it. It sucked. It really sucked bad. There seemed no end. Then somewhere along the line someone relized there were no

licensed professionals associated with the program.



Enter George Ross...a baffoon, really....seriously, a baffoon. I was on my second third phase about that time...just entering the 4th phase when George made his

presence. The whole rational self anaylisis thing brought about a hyper-awreness of

ourselves and our surroundings. To further control a continually unsettled group this

crap was used increasingly against each other in groups.



Together this combination of the intimidation and fear that Helen brought to the table with George Ross's baffonish intellect where simply a breeding ground once Miller Newton came into the picture. Miller brought cruelty (in the name of

theraphy) to a whole new level. Thank god he was only there for last months of my incarceration in Straight.



My point is that Straight got progressively worse and to add insult, it was done in the

name of "theraphy". Conditions that staff brought about and which we allowed thru

our own compliance. Because we were compliant and acting participants (in some way shape or form) and the mindset we were to employ made it easy for the likes of Miller Newton to charm and destroy. Any cult worth it's salt has that...a

charismatic leader. And each of our "leaders" were charismatic...cept George.



As I said, I was a pee-on client...and I was there same time as you were. I didn't suffer at your hands....no, thats not the point. But you were there, you suffered because of staff...I know ya did...and you went on to the same group that inflicted the suffering. And in your best honesty you say " I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the

same things either in the program or on staff." Ok, maybe...I cant relate to Atlanta, Orlando, Sarasota or any other program in another location long long after I was

there.



But dude...I know what it was like when I got there and I know what the group was like when you got there. We made it possible for the horrors that you read on this site. The very least I can do is to not disrespect any of those who were locked up long after I was gone. I do it very simply, I discuss my experience. Spending energy to write about what I did not experience is not only a waste of time but

antagonises and disrespects those who have. And as I have said, it comes across as most arrogant...as if implying it never happened.



This denial, this illusion that Straight was a good thing is so easy to pop thru...to

those who experienced it. Example, this year after 27 years I got together with a

cousin, who also went thru Straight...long after I did. In our first change to talk, at

some point in the conversation he suddenly blurted out "Well, just gotta apply the

first step I guess"...I was stunned! I asked him, "Do you really believe what you just said...could you show me an example of how that would help?" He lowered his head and his voice and said humbly, "No". By that point it was like not talking about the white elephant in the room and I couldnt stand it, so I made another reference to Straight and he got real firm and said, "It's not something I talk about!" to which I replied....Dude, your my cousin, my blood, and you experienced what I did and worse...this IS the time to talk about it. Within minutes he began a one way conversation about his experience in Straight and the time following.



It amazed he and I both that he was some what still a Straight supporter and he rang the very same bell that you do...it helped me and I helped others...the moment of dis-illuisionment was painfull for my cousin, which seemed odd

because dis-illusion was suppossed to be a good thing. He let go of years of bullshit, finally he was with someone he could say exactly how he felt with no reprisal he would have surely gotten from his immediate family if he spoke honestly about his experience at Straight.





BTW: Marnie and Marti...two different people right?



I knew a Marti...Heath was it? If memory serves me she slapped the living fuck out of Chriss Casslor (how ever ya spell his name)once. She slapped him when he got real close, she was on front row. He was stunned and further pushed her to slap him again if it made her feel better...so she did and knocked him way the fuck back...atta girl marti

"

I greatly appreciate your post.  It has made me think in more detail and some of the things you point out are true.  Look, I was a fucked up misguided kid with a dysfunctional family situation on a path to nowhere when I entered Straight.  Yes, I was stood up in group and humiliated like the rest.  I didn't like it one bit, but, I took it as a way to better myself.  I was led to see how my life was (a good athlete and straight "A" student) prior to getting into drugs and the divorce of my parents and how quickly this progressed.  I was barely 12 when I entered the program.  I took what was thrown at me as away to get back that life I had.  Would I have grown out of this?  I don?t know and I don?t know if anyone could say.  Call this naive (as Ginger has in the past) but I needed stability and direction and I got my shit together.  I was excited about getting back to being a kid again and I wanted to help others so I joined staff (again naive, I suppose).  I never deliberately treated people poorly or in anyway physically hurt anyone.  Your analogy of the outstretched hand is very effective.  By association with the staff I would have to admit that I mistreated people by not seeing what was going on and doing something about it. However, it was never my intention to do so.  I guess when I say I still believe I helped people I'm really speaking about my intentions.  There is no way to prove or disprove whether or not I helped anyone.  Based on what is said here nobody was ever helped.  I simply do not believe that because I know I was personally.

You have given me additional insight and I greatly appreciate it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »