On 2006-04-02 05:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-01 16:14:00, Eudora wrote:
"Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.
Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.
But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?
You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?
Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.
How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.
Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them! ::puke::
There's just so much more. Every minute of every day, what with all the snitch culture, fear of anyone discovering how fucking miserable you were and holding your feet to the fire till you confessed your private "bad thoughts" to the entire group so they could swarm like hungry pirhanas and tear apart, analyze, condemn and degrade your very soul while staff (you) mused over just which kind of torture to impose for the crime of being honest about that place being a fucking unending nightmare.
I'm glad I knew better than to ever tell you anything real or important.
See, to me, this kind of warped culture had been SOP since I was around 6. By the time I was 9 or so I knew it was fucked up and I was just going to have to play the game till I came of age and could book it to some other state and, finally, finally, be myself for once in my sorry assed life. Straight was, from my point of view, a monumental hassle, boring, a waste of time, depressing, infuriating, frustrating, but not eternal. Unlike most of the rest of you, I also knew very well that you get out eventually. It was a sanity saver. I couldn't have put it into words at the time. I tried a couple of times when I was hitchhiking around and someone would ask what was so bad that I was running from. I just couldn't really explain it.
What I didn't know is that you people didn't have that edge. Without that edge, it was more than just unpleasant in the moment. It was a very effective mindfuck. People were broken, damaged, even driven to suicide and other desperate measures slowly but slowly, by degrees, right in front of us. Worse? We all helped do it to them. We had to, at least to some degree, just to survive.
Worse still? When we had done our job effectively and someone really did finally have a total nervous breakdown, we all joined in (willingly or not) in pointing and clucking and damning them, "What a shame, what a shame! See, we knew that kid was fucked up and in need of help. What a cryin shame he didn't accept the help we so generously offered." And then they were shunned, after however long isolated from the real world and having had a scorched Earth campaign run on their lives.
Sorry as hell I didn't recognize back then that I had an unfair advantage. Because I didn't know that, I played my role, delivered my lines and just assumed it wasn't effecting anybody. I'll always be sorry as hell for that.
And you might think I'm being cruel or bitter or can't get over it and that I should just be polite and leave your fantasies intact. Why put you through it, right? What other motive could I possibly have except to inflict pain on you.
Well that's not my motive. I remember you well, Marnie. And you too, Speed Racer. Both of you are unusually kind, decent people, if a bit misguided. And I've often wondered how you made out. I'm sure everyone who knows you sees how kind you are and they probably trust your advice. So what happens when someone asks your advice in dealing with their troubled, rebellious or pot smoking kid?
If you don't know what the fuck you did, if you still persist in shading it in soft, glowing terms, except for the things those other, overtly sadistic staffers and inmates did, you'd probably help them find a TC for that kid, one based on the same fucked up model, but one that does a slightly better job of hiding the casualties. So your fantasies and your good intentions might very well result in some other kids being broken and demoralized, their lives trashed and their families and friends taken away from them of you ain't got the guts to face what we did in there.
All good intentions aside, that makes you very dangerous people. Those comforting lies can be very expensive to innocent others.
If you don't want to talk about the real dear, you'll have to make yourself a private forum where you can delete those ideas you don't care to entertain. If you're going to engage on this topic without censorship and control, sorry guys. Again, you're very nice people and I remember you both very fondly. But this is for real.
The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.
"
You ask for staffers to post here to gain insight. If it doesn't fit into your perspective, you go off on a tirade. Justified? Absolutely. But, as I've said before, I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the same things either in the program or on staff. Sorry to disappoint. This is my perspective whether or not you belive me or think I'm a sadistic fuck.
I'm sorry I don't remember you because it might help to understand things a little better. By the way, I would never recommend any type of program like Straight for treatment of drug use. "
Sorry for this long post...Ya know...Sunday morning...Jamacian Blue Mountain Coffee and Babbling Botanicals or Chatter Weed...at any rate...be forewarned...this is a long ass post
"Not all of us staff members knew of the mistreatment that was going on. I was on staff in Sarasota at the very beginning and did not see the things that have been shared here. "
Hmmm, sounds very familiar and certainly runs parallel to an early post (which I think you wrote) that said---
"I used to be a junior staff member in Sarasota and led raps to try and make people think and guess at what we were actually talking about. Little did most people know I had no idea what I the topic was either."
In both instances that I have quoted you claim to be completely oblivious to the world around you. You had no clue...YOU HAD NO CLUE??? Huh?
I was incarcerated before you John, and much of the more systematic/sadistic/systemic abuse took place after my time. But was is abuntantly clear to me...justa pee-on client...was that the ground work that paved the way for such abuses was set long before I even got there. You, came in after I did, and you could not have escaped what other people did not.
It amazes me, astounds me, that the
hate/fear/distrust/anger/deception/cruelty/humiliation/intimidation that a whole
group experienced (and remeber very clearly to this day) witnessed and participated on a daily basis...that you, somehow did not observe (much less experience) any of this. Before the extreme phyisical violence there was the subtle physical violence. And what preceded that was the blatant mental and emotional violence...which I have said, preceeded and or paved the way to the wholesale acceptance of physical abuse....and ya didnt experience or witness any of this???
Hate to use the phrase....But where in the fuck was your awareness...
I read and have read several times that you sincerly believe you helped people. There is an arrogance about this that just makes me seethe in rage. Such Arrogance! You as the "helper" (if you really helped) can have no earthly idea if
you helped or not. In the same breath, I think you may not know the damage you may have created. And still there is an effort to entertain the illusion that you are sheltered from your past...because you were just helping. I couldn't or rather I "didn't see the abuse because I was too busy "helping people". That sounds like Mother Theresa not admitting poverty & starvation because she was too busy tending to the leppers.
Giving you the benifit of the doubt...I will venture to say that perhaps (maybe) your use of the word "help" or "helping" is in and of itself misleading. Not knowing (remembering) you personally, I rely on what you have said and what others have said about you. My idea of you is that of a decent person. That you are kind and thoughtfull of yourself and the world around you. That being said...Think of this as a matter of semantics. You, back then...back in the day "extended your hand" to others (and called it "helping"). Your focus was on that "extended hand". What you have not noticed or have yet to relise is that Straight had your "other hand" and you had no idea then (or now apparently) what Straight was doing with the "other hand". Fertile ground for the "Messiah Complex" to take root.
All behavior at some point was accepted and promoted under the guise of "theraphy". Upon my arrival at the Milton Roy building there already was an air of intimidation about the staff, the groups responce was fear.
Remember "Running"...being hauled around the preimiter of the building by the belt loop running as hard as they could push you....remember that? Recall the "Exercise
Raps" where individual puddles of sweat merged into one big puddle...remember people passing out and landing on thier faces...It was important that we had exercise in our "therapy" right? Remember that part (a huge part) of our "theraphy" was...um...CONFRONTATION. On the surface, confrontation sounds logical and so it
was a justified means of "treatment". John, you never got stood up and raked over the coals? Ok, so ya didnt get slammed to the floor, thrown into time out, have a staff member hump your ass while 5-6 people held ya down and 6-7 stood and
watched...BUt I know you had to have been "stood up" and you felt defensless as "we" systematically took you appart...How many times had you sat in group...terrified of being stood up....TERRIFIED. No one learns from a teacher that employs terroistic measures...I think it was you who said that you had no idea what
you were talking about while leading the groups...and yet it was justified "theraphy"...Dude, thats pretty fucked up right there. While you had no idea what
you were talking about (which you admitted) and their were kids infront of you terrified....TERRIFIED.
Then consider our "leadership"...Forever it seemed Helen Peterman was the heart and soul of the program...oh yeah Jim Hartz to. But Mz Pete was in control...we knew it...staff knew it...parents knew it. It sucked. It really sucked bad. There seemed no end. Then somewhere along the line someone relized there were no
licensed professionals associated with the program.
Enter George Ross...a baffoon, really....seriously, a baffoon. I was on my second third phase about that time...just entering the 4th phase when George made his
presence. The whole rational self anaylisis thing brought about a hyper-awreness of
ourselves and our surroundings. To further control a continually unsettled group this
crap was used increasingly against each other in groups.
Together this combination of the intimidation and fear that Helen brought to the table with George Ross's baffonish intellect where simply a breeding ground once Miller Newton came into the picture. Miller brought cruelty (in the name of
theraphy) to a whole new level. Thank god he was only there for last months of my incarceration in Straight.
My point is that Straight got progressively worse and to add insult, it was done in the
name of "theraphy". Conditions that staff brought about and which we allowed thru
our own compliance. Because we were compliant and acting participants (in some way shape or form) and the mindset we were to employ made it easy for the likes of Miller Newton to charm and destroy. Any cult worth it's salt has that...a
charismatic leader. And each of our "leaders" were charismatic...cept George.
As I said, I was a pee-on client...and I was there same time as you were. I didn't suffer at your hands....no, thats not the point. But you were there, you suffered because of staff...I know ya did...and you went on to the same group that inflicted the suffering. And in your best honesty you say " I am appalled at what I've read here and have thought quite a bit about those times, but I did not experience the
same things either in the program or on staff." Ok, maybe...I cant relate to Atlanta, Orlando, Sarasota or any other program in another location long long after I was
there.
But dude...I know what it was like when I got there and I know what the group was like when you got there. We made it possible for the horrors that you read on this site. The very least I can do is to not disrespect any of those who were locked up long after I was gone. I do it very simply, I discuss my experience. Spending energy to write about what I did not experience is not only a waste of time but
antagonises and disrespects those who have. And as I have said, it comes across as most arrogant...as if implying it never happened.
This denial, this illusion that Straight was a good thing is so easy to pop thru...to
those who experienced it. Example, this year after 27 years I got together with a
cousin, who also went thru Straight...long after I did. In our first change to talk, at
some point in the conversation he suddenly blurted out "Well, just gotta apply the
first step I guess"...I was stunned! I asked him, "Do you really believe what you just said...could you show me an example of how that would help?" He lowered his head and his voice and said humbly, "No". By that point it was like not talking about the white elephant in the room and I couldnt stand it, so I made another reference to Straight and he got real firm and said, "It's not something I talk about!" to which I replied....Dude, your my cousin, my blood, and you experienced what I did and worse...this IS the time to talk about it. Within minutes he began a one way conversation about his experience in Straight and the time following.
It amazed he and I both that he was some what still a Straight supporter and he rang the very same bell that you do...it helped me and I helped others...the moment of dis-illuisionment was painfull for my cousin, which seemed odd
because dis-illusion was suppossed to be a good thing. He let go of years of bullshit, finally he was with someone he could say exactly how he felt with no reprisal he would have surely gotten from his immediate family if he spoke honestly about his experience at Straight.
BTW: Marnie and Marti...two different people right?
I knew a Marti...Heath was it? If memory serves me she slapped the living fuck out of Chriss Casslor (how ever ya spell his name)once. She slapped him when he got real close, she was on front row. He was stunned and further pushed her to slap him again if it made her feel better...so she did and knocked him way the fuck back...atta girl marti
