Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > News Items
If you like posts by hostile people, you'll love this guy!
Cayo Hueso:
--- Quote ---On 2004-10-17 08:05:00, Antigen wrote:
And if you ask them, you'll find that most of them also drank milk. Correlation is not causation. The trouble w/ your theory is the hundreds of millions of people who use these drugs and don't ever commit crimes against anybody.
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:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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And when I and my friends were smoking pot, we didn't do any of those things. We went to school, got decent grades then moved on to work and adult responsibilities. It's pathetic and weak for you to blame drugs for your own shameful behavior.
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:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
--- Quote --- And I'd bet good money (not to mention non-material things of real value) that I have more influence and credibility w/ my kids by telling them the truth than you do by trying to pass off your brand of hysteria as adult wisdom.
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:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: This has been proven over and over again. My kids are a prime example. They believed me about the real dangers because I didn't try to fill their heads with all the propoganda that is so easily swallowed by the rest of the sheep.
Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
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Anonymous:
"And when I and my friends were smoking pot, we didn't do any of those things. We went to school, got decent grades then moved on to work and adult responsibilities. It's pathetic and weak for you to blame drugs for your own shameful behavior. "
Good for you! Then maybe you weren't an addict! I am. As for blaming drugs for my "shameful behavior" you are right in one respect - it was shameful. And drugs dulled the feelings of shame enough for me to keep making those choices, as well as sapping my ambition to work hard and act responsibly. THAT IS THE NATURE OF ADDCITON. ask any street prostitute, petty thief or criminal who uses drugs. They do it feel better, but at the same time it traps them.
funny how when I stopped doing drugs I had ambition, energy, drive, motivation and became a thinking, ambitious, caring person. I volunteer with incarcerated youth, have a great child, happy marriage, good carrier. A correlation to using and then stopping drugs? You bet. And I hate milk, never drank it.
Now, to be clear, I am not a prohibitionist. I blew my chance to drink or smoke dope in moderation because it became my coping mechanism at a young age. I just want kids to develope enough sense of self and an ability to cope before they start experimenting with any mind altering substance.
Anonymous:
I agree with most of what the last anon poster says..and maybe prohibition is not a realistic way to go,at least with adults even if smoking up or whatever is generally bad for them...but for god's sake people use your common sense...don't worry about whether some "famous" person who you don't know anything about personally did or did not use drugs at some point in time.
Look to your own life and experience..if you do, how can you possibly not see that substance use especially in the early and mid teens is a recipe for disaster? Even if there are exceptions to the rule, this is the rule
And what would make the drug-pushing posters here not be able to see it, except denial and self-justification...really shameful behavior
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2004-10-17 13:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
Look to your own life and experience..if you do, how can you possibly not see that substance use especially in the early and mid teens is a recipe for disaster? Even if there are exceptions to the rule, this is the rule
And what would make the drug-pushing posters here not be able to see it, except denial and self-justification...really shameful behavior
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Well, when I look at my life and the people I've known over half a lifetime, I don't see any correlation between pot smoking and failure. It's not denial, it's just what the evidence shows. I can't think of half a dozen people who I know now who never smoked pot and, really, very few who didn't do more than that. And yet most of the people I know who have serious depression and trouble managing their lives are people who I know through the Program.
Second, the last people who want prohibition to end are dope pushers! For all the same reasons why Al Capone and Babyface Nelson went into the liquor business, dope dealers can only make money as long as their stock in trade is illegal. That's why there are dope dealers in schools but no bootleggers anymore. Who the hell's going to pay exhorbinant prices for some home brewed substance of unknown origin if they have to compete w/ legal, regulated distributors?
It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2004-10-17 09:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
Now, to be clear, I am not a prohibitionist. I blew my chance to drink or smoke dope in moderation because it became my coping mechanism at a young age. I just want kids to develope enough sense of self and an ability to cope before they start experimenting with any mind altering substance.
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Well, I don't think we really dissagree on all that much. I do think there are healthier, more reasonable ways to view substance abuse and to manage the risks than AA's powerful drug/powerless user model. The fact is that most people, by far, use mind altering drugs. Ya' have to count the pharmaceuticals here, as the only difference is in whether or not you've acqured professional permission; set and setting. And most of these people never have major problems with it. Those who do either, like you, swear abstinance forever or learn moderation without any kind of formal intervention or treatment. Just about the entire WWII generation dealt w/ ecconomic depression and poverty, PTSD (formerly known as "shell shock") and all of life's trevails w/o any formal intervention.
Even heroin is nowhere near as universally addictive as the authorities seem to believe. It's a true fact that somewhere around 70% of Vietnam vets used heroin while in that country. But when they came home, removed from the daily horror and the habit, they simply never bothered to look for a local connection. I would imagine that a good many of them puked and sweated for awhile. Not saying it's effortless. Just that the relatively new concept that an addict cannot end or manage their own addiction w/o some kind of formal intervention doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Now this begs many questions. Why do we spend billions of dollars per year for decades now trying to control addictive or abusive behavior through coercive means? It hasn't had any of the intended effect and certainly has engenderd a great deal of suffering, crime and illness.
Aside from a change of set and setting, how exactly does the Program "work"? Is it really necessary to humiliate adolescent kids by demanding confessions, often of a sexual nature, before a group of their peers? And what about the damage done when the staff or group get carried away, as they invariably do, and insist on a false confession?
I'm not saying that you, personally, didn't need a change of direction or a fresh start of some kind. Just that you probably could have done w/o the weird cultic side-show.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer
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