ANOTHER WWASPS FATALITY?

[Anonymous]

First of all, I was talking to kids that were already in the program.  And actually quite the opposite.  You said that you think that I was recomending the program to them.  That is wrong.  I did not like the program, I thought that it was stupid, and I didn't need to be there.  I couldn't wait to leave.  But what I did talk to others about was about things they did when they were at home.  What their relationship was like with their parents.  I was only talked to them about whatever they wanted to talk about.  When I was a lower level, an upper level taking the time to come and talk to me, and not talk program meant a lot to me.  Throughout the time I was in the program, I was very cynicall and I hated it there.  It wasn't untill after I left that I realized alot of things I had been missing while I was their.  

You can say whatever you want about it being a cult.  And you can say that you think that I have been brainwashed, I know I haven't.  How do I know that?  Because I still have all of the same friends, I have a better personality, and I have more fun than I did before I went into the program.  If I had been brainwashed that wouldn't be possible.  

You say that you think all of the other graduates will tell you the same thing I do just because they have been brainwashed.  Let me ask you this, if you asked all of the graduates to pick the thing they gained the most from the program, what do you think it would be?  I bet all of them will tell you the best thing they got out of the program was the friends they gained there.  For me, the first kid that ever met in the program are still in contact today.  Those are my real friends, I have them not because of drugs or alcohol, but because we have fun.  Say what you want, but if you ever took the time to do any real research, and that doesn't mean just the negative sites.  I mean really looking, you would get a different picture.  If I met you on the street, I bet you would not be able to tell that I had been to one of these schools.  So if the schools purpose was to brainwash me, they did a really bad job.

Deborah, you said a lot.  When I read what you wrote I noticed you said something about how blaming the kids isn't fair, when it is the parents that need the help.  Well, the program agrees with you there.  All of the seminars that us kids have to go through the parents are supposed to go through too.  And I know in those they do tell the parents that it is not the kid that is messed up, they say that it is the parents fault too.  

Believe me when I say that I know that graduation does not equal success.  My best friend throughout the time we their together graduated before me and went home, slipped back, smoked a joint that was laced and overdosed and went into a comma for 2 weeks before dieing.  I personnaly have other friends that graduated and have not been "sucessful".  The one thing that I see that they have going for them that other kids don't, is that when they decide they want to change, they already have the friends to turn to.  If any one of my program friends called me at any time, and needed help I would drop everything and help them.  Other kids that haven't been through the program, may not have a list of people that they could call day or night and get that kind of help.  

In no way do I think that the program is "perfect".  Like I said before, while I was their I didn't always enjoy it.  I do however see value in it, if nothing else than for the friendships that I gained.  And if that is the only thing I gained, which it isn't, that would be good enough for me.

[Anonymous]

Program Grad,

You mention repeatedly that you made best friends while in the Program.That you are in contact with those friends today.

Please help me understand how that is possible. My experience of the program was that the kids are NOT allowed to take phone numbers or addresses home with them.

I personally experienced parents who allowed their child to be kept at the facility ,dropped to level one or two during PC what ever it was ,the last PC.The one where she was to be going home.Because this kid did not follow that rule and had a list of her "friends" numbers .

I remeber thinking how very sick can that be. The parents were way over the top.  PROGRAMMED.

Explain how you mangaged to get friends phone numbers.

I always thought it was a ridiculous rule.

[spots]

you say.....

" But what I did talk to others about was about things they did when they were at home.  What their relationship was like with their parents.  I was only talked to them about whatever they wanted to talk about.  When I was a lower level, an upper level taking the time to come and talk to me, and not talk program meant a lot to me."
////////////////////////////////

The WWASPS Program format is not different in one facility from another.  Your experience is not the experience of children numbering in the hundreds who have told their stories when they get out. In fact, in the 2 intense years I have been involved with WWASPS, I have never once heard a graduate speak of meaningful friendly talks with other students about home and family troubles.  

My child was pulled at Level II after 10 months in Casa by the Sea.  During that long time, she never spoke directly to her parent.  She was not allowed to speak to other students during the day except for "group".  When she first entered, her dorm of 25 girls was allowed bedtime talk of 10 minutes in the dark.  In short order, when the talk was discovered to center on "displeasure" with the program, the bedtime talk period became 5 minutes of closely-monitored conversations and topics, Level III's only, with other girls allowed to listen but not contribute.

Girls became friends, but conversations were only snatched behind the back of staff or during basketball games.  Giving hand signals while playing the games (forbidden) became a game in itself.  The background lives of the girls were not shared in one-on-one conversations.  Instead, the required daily journal entries of 2 pages were read in group the next day...and if there was not enough "angst" or revelling in new "enlightenments" of the Program, the kids were required to make it up...just fill the page and read your private diary the next day.  That's how you learn things and become "friends" with people you can't even talk to.

Visitors often speak of the weird silence in an institution of several hundred teenagers.  There is chatter among Upper Levels (about to graduate) who are paraded before parents as typical of the experience their children will have at WWASPS.  These same kids are specifically threatened with not contacting friends when on a near-graduation home trip...including former Program friends, if they could even find them.  Have you heard of a 5-year class reunion for WWASPS Class of 2000? Nope.  You are a "graduate", are you not, and school graduates typically reconvene away from the school.  Prep school graduates wear school colors for years, keep detailed newsletters going about graduates' lives, and...ta-da!...send money back as alumni for the rest of their lives.  Now why would WWASPS pass up such an opportunity to let Program graduates get together, exchange phone numbers, publish a listing of the pleased students, promote allegiance to the Program that helped them reform their lives?  The Program cannot afford to have two or more people get together and compare notes, even if the children could later send gobs of money, so those children go to "negative sites" like this one.  

Even you, Dear Graduate, must have heard the somewhat-desperate invitation from your local support group to have Program kids attend their meetings.  The support groups are really heavy on rah-rah parents, but the kids who have been through it are noticeably absent.  If a kid does come, it is ONCE, usually answering a demanding parent.  The farther away these kids get from the Program in time, the less they will agree to support it publically.  Wouldn't it be nice for a support group to sponsor a graduates' Night at Disneyland?  Yeah, right.

You said, "...Other kids that haven't been through the program, may not have a list of people that they could call day or night and get that kind of help."  I can't imagine why you think that.  Friendship bonds are made constantly, and survive well without a traumatic Program as a common experience.  

There is absolutely no opportunity for casual exchange and development of supporting friendships in WWASPS.  It is important for the Program to position itself as the only authority or nurturing role, and the Program definitely does not allow young people to mingle and chat freely as do most teens.  A graduate apparently needs to be out for a year or more to understand what "friends" really are.

[Anonymous]

Spots - Who told you all this, your Level 2 child?  Maybe Casa is different, so if you had visited SCL you would not have experienced any of what you wrote.  I can't speak of Casa by the Sea, but SCL is nothing like what you describe.  

The person that wrote about friendships he/she had while there and that continue is my experience as well.  Phone numbers are exchanged at the graduation seminar with the parents present.  Friendships are not discouraged, but rather encouraged.  

When I attended the meetings in Arizona and the Bay Area, the grads and early outs "chose" to go to the support group meetings.  They go to connect with each other, but they are also a very important part of the meeting, not only for the parents, but for each other.  Yes, some do only go once, but most go for several months.   I've never heard one of them say they liked being in a program, but I hear over and over how they know what's really important in their lives now, and it's not drugs or self-destruction. They have a great support system if they use it.    

I'm saddened by the news of the girl that took her life.  I doubt if there is blame, either of the girl or of the care she received.  If someone wants to commit suicide, they will find a way. This is just my opinion, but I would imagine her pain started long before she was admitted.

[BuzzKill]

My son tells the same story as Spots granddaughter as far as the forbidden fruit of phone numbers. Consequences for having this info are serious if caught.
I expected you to say what you said about the exchange of info at graduation. But what if you were a level three kid and were found with a list of numbers of level 1,2 and 3 kids? What then?
WHY?
That is the question.

As for this poor kid; I have my doubts it was in fact suicide. I suspect it was a restraint death and the suicide story just the program (as always) deflecting blame for what they did onto the kid.

However, if it was suicide, the program is still fully responsible for this tragedy. In their own statement they say she was at risk. They are not qualified to counsel suicidal teens; the program is grossly inappropriate for any mentally ill person; and they are libel for having accepted her into care. In my opinion.

I'm hoping the family isn't so blinded by the veil of tears ; or programmed into idiocy; that they can't see this. I hope they start screaming for justice.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is a huge consequence to have phone numbers while you are in the program, but during PC3, right before I went home.  There is a part of the seminar dedicated to allowing graduates to exchange numbers.  On top of that, it is possible to find out anyone's phone number on the internet.  About not being able to talk to anyone.  I had never heard that before.  Your right, there are times, when we are supposed to be quite.  Like in school, in group, or other specified times.  The only restriction other than those times is that they don't allow two level one's talk to eachother, or a level one and a level two.  Why?  Because typically those are the kids that are angry, and they don't want those kids sitting around being negative all day together.  Because then they won't do anything.  They will just sit there and talk about how much everything sucks.

About the friends thing.  Without a doubt those people are my best friends ever.  Have you ever been through something that was incredibly hard physically or mentally?  Well, the program is extremely mentally and emotionally hard.  Whenever anyone goes through anything like that they become extremely close.  Like sports teams.  A sports team sweats, bleads, succeeds and fails together.  Being in the program, there is no sweating or bleading, but there is a lot of success's and failures we go through.  And when you add the fact that I lived with these people, it makes them even closer.  It is hard to explain, and couldn't imagine trying to understand it coming from anyone elses perspective.  The other kids there were my only way to vent.  

About how kids never go to support group meetings.  That isn't entirely accurate.  Since I have graduated I have been to 4 support group meetings, and the only reason I haven't been to more, is that I only graduated in May, and now I am now in college.  I also have done one better, I have staffed two parent seminars.  And now you are probably going to say that I am the only one that does that.  And I will resond by saying that I am not.  In the two I staffed, each one had a different graduate with me staffing.  And the seminars in Chicage had an entire staffing team made up of like 4 or 5 graduates for a couple of seminars throughout the summer.  You have to remember that when we graduate, we all get jobs and goto school.  We don't have tons of free time.  So the only time most graduates can get involved is during the summer.

Whoever said that they thought this was a restraint death, I don't know how you could think something like that.  And personnaly when I read that, I got a little pissed off.  Instead of you mourning her death or trying to find ways to help depressed kids, all you have to say is that it is all the programs fault.  Do you know what you are talking abuot?  Have you done any real research?  As sad as it is kids commit suicide all the time in todays society.  It is terribly sad that it happened, and me being a graduate from Spring Creek, it hurts me a little more.  But don't down grade her death by using her as a way for you to carry out your self rightous mission of trying to close down these facilities.  If you met the people that work at Spring Creek, you could never say that.  In the entire time I was there, they didn't treat me as a "prisoner", or a "captive".  But they treated me as a friend, when I started to treat them with respect.  

I can not, and I will not speak to some of the things that Ken Kay, and others up there with him have said, because I have never met them.  But for Cameron(owner of Spring Creek), and the others that work at Spring Creek I can say this.  They helped me beyond what I ever could have asked for.  They were there for me, when I needed someone.  And they aren't perfect either.  Some of them had struggles  (simmilar to kids in program) when they were younger.  That makes them more than qualified in my eyes.  I have been to see counselors, and I have been to see "professionals", they pretend that there lives are perfect, and act as if they never had any problems at all in their life.  The people at Spring Creek, while they may not have a pHD, but there willingness to talk about their lives in comparison is something that I learned more from than any doctor telling me what I need to do, and what is wrong with me.

[Anonymous]

Individual program graduate person-type, (I'm working hard not to use any patronizing diminutives here) I know it's not your fault that you were sent, and that you just got out in May, but keep in mind that you may well feel very different about your experiences in five years or so.  Many others have.

On the other hand, if you are perfectly happy and never have another day of trouble in the world, great.

Good luck with all that.

Timoclea

[Anonymous]

Many grads have felt differently about their experiences several years down the road. That's good news, really.  I feel differently about many experiences in my life than I did when they happened.  All in a good way.

[Brown]

Hey, I am the graduate that has been posting here a couple of times.  

Your right, I may feel differently a couple years down the road.  But I doubt it.  But if I do, I do.  Right now, I honestly feel that it was good for me.  When I read alot of the negatives, and some of the people don't seem even willing to even listen to what I have to say, it gets frustrating.  One person asked why they should believe me?  That is a good question.  There are a lot that probably feel the same way, but yet these same people will sit there and post things that they heard about the abuses.  Well unless they actually lived it then they trusted someone else on the internet.  Why can't you listen to me?  Just because I am not agreeing with what the popular thing to do on these forums is.  I was there, I know there was no abuse.  If you don't believe me, there is nothing I can do.  All I want to do is just let people know what I expierenced.

[Anonymous]

Hey Brown - just wait, you'll be you are brainwashed and don't even know it. LOL! :wink:

[Anonymous]

On 2004-10-11 22:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey Brown - just wait, you'll be you are brainwashed and don't even know it. LOL! :wink: "

I missed a word or two - What I meant to say is: just wait, you'll be accused of being brainwashed and don't even know it.

[Brown]

Well, i am definitly not brainwashed, and if that was the goal of the program like I said before, they did a really bad job.  I have the same brain, I like the same things, I have much of the same friends, i have the same personality.  I know alot of you out there probably believe that I am just brainwashed, and that all graduates are too.  But I bet if you met any graduate on the street, at work, or even were friends with one.  I bet you would have no idea that they were in the program unless they told you.  

Oh yeah, not everyone likes the program that graduates.  I don't.  But what I do have is a huge respect for it and the staff that work there day and night.  They give up about 50% of their lives to the program.  They are there all the time.  And give up holidays with their families some times.  They don't complain, why?  Because they really are there to help me and the thousands of others that are there or have been there.  When people talk about the "beatings" and the "mocking" that the staff take part in, it takes away from the committment that they put forth.  Especially when those stories aren't even true.

I don't the Owners of WWASP.  I do know the owner of Spring Creek.  And I know that he truly does care.  I can tell you that he has personnally given alot to the facility up there.  He is a very hands on owner.  He really takes an interest in the programs of all the kids he can.  Throughout my time there, I got to talk to him a couple of different times.  Every time he helped me whether he realized it or not.  The owners of WWASP (Ken Kay and them) may be complete assholes.  I would have no idea.  But believe me, the people that are there day in and day out do care and really try to help.

[Anonymous]

I find it amazing, the way Brown and the other cult member say the exact same things, using the exact same words... creepy.

[Brown]

And I find it amazing how incredibly stupid and ignorant you truly can be.  Heard any other "cult members" say that one before?  It is the people like you that sit there and don't have any first hand knowledge at all, and just repeat things that you here others say.  And then accuse me of being the one that is a member of a "cult."  And say that I say everything using the same words that all the other "cult" members use.  

Actually really look.  They don't hide anything.  If you really look, you can find stories, and pictures that are from these places.  You could if you wanted.  But then again you are probably just happy sitting there in your ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Relax, Brown. This is not a group session. Fortunately for me, I'm not in a WWASP concentration camp, so there's no need to give me "feedback". Save that for your program buddies.

You say, "really look". I looked. I read The Source, I read WWASP propagnda sites, and I read many sites such as this. It just doesn't add up, Brown.

Brainwashing can be defined as Doublethink, meaning, the ability to see two contradicting realities at the same time. That is what you do. You the "reality" of program ideology, and you see the real world reality, of abuse, torture, and cultic mentality. Unable to sort out teh real from the not, due to your programming, you turn to the one and only answer: WWASP's answer.

Right now, trying to talk to you would not mean much. You are still under the influence. However, I would like to talk to you 5 years from now, when some of it will undoubtly wear off.

I wish you good luck and happiness in your life. You deserve some of that after everything you've been through.