Author Topic: Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The  (Read 20819 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2004, 10:32:00 PM »
Oh, but you are posting here...and apparently so is your dad, you know, the guy still using seed lingo 30 years later calling seed critics druggies.

So know we know, you brother "cured" himself and you needed the seed.

You sure about that? You less of a person than your brother?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2004, 10:49:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:


 By the way, I was in the Seed at the same time, same place as GREGFL, and I don't remember half of what he reports.....
I think a bunch of the complaints here are revisionist history.  I remember reading the St. Petersburg Times stories when we were at the Seed, and most of the stories were based on reports from Seed runaways, screw-ups or their parents, who had an axe to grind. Also, a lot of the reporting was speculation because Art tried so hard to keep the curious public out to protect our anonymity and our growth in the program.  He practiced "the rules" too.




As they would say in the seed  "you are full of shit" ... at least on this topic.

Art allowed the "curious public" to come to open meeting and observe who was there and listen to their coerced confessions. In St Pete sometimes there would be several thousand observers and parents.

Art put HUNDREDS of kids in front of TV cameras and ran their pictures and testimonies over and over on tv stations thruout florida and Ohio. The infomercial is called "the Seed of hope".

Art only inacted the "no talking to the press" rule after making a complete ass out of himself over and over. Even then the press was at every open meeting at the Seed and Art gave countless statements to the press. Was the press all druggies too? I can tell you this, it took the St Pete Independent almost a year before they caught on and started critically reporting seed events. At first the were solidly in the Seed camp until Senate reports came out, people testified that they had been beaten and abused.

Further,early he let the press interview and post newcomers names and MORAL INVENTORIES in local nespapers where he was recruiting new members.

Countless abuse from the period was reported in the press, but here 30 years later you discredit all of those accounts because they were people who had left the seed.

Tell me, if it was so wonderfull, why did they leave? Oh yeah, they were druggies and splits..instant discredit of everything they say.

I am a seed graduate. I have the same "status" as you do post seed.  I am not on drugs. Tell me, why is my memory and the memory of hundreds of people that went thru the seed so easily discredited by you?

Is it because we criticise your beloved cult?

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-11-08 19:52 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #107 on: November 09, 2004, 04:10:00 AM »
Adios!  Enjoy your website.  No more replies or posts from me, so you can have meaningful discussion with those who support your cause.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #108 on: November 09, 2004, 08:45:00 AM »
:cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:  :cry2:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2004, 08:51:00 AM »
Speechless, eh?  I think you need to bone up on some facts. The "cause" as you put it is open discussion and  you just got nothing but a open meeting style testimonial to offer. Sorry your feelings are hurt or your hard wired story is challenged. Whatever it is that bugs you about this open discussion, if you are truly signing off... go in peace.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2004, 09:06:00 AM »
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On 2004-11-09 01:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Adios!  Enjoy your website.  No more replies or posts from me, so you can have meaningful discussion with those who support your cause."


And that just PROVES our point!!!!!  Any criticism of the beloved program will NOT be tolerated!! :rofl:  :rofl: Some of us even asked you very pointed questions after your little tirade.  I guess you don't have an answer...hmmmm.  Interesting.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2004, 09:09:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-08 15:54:00, Anonymous wrote:



I think a bunch of the complaints here are revisionist history.  I remember reading the St. Petersburg Times stories when we were at the Seed, and most of the stories were based on reports from Seed runaways, screw-ups or their parents, who had an axe to grind.



Shhhh...your right..it was only a dream...go back to sleep....shhhh...everything will be fine.....thats it......


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz




[ This Message was edited by: Somejoker on 2004-11-09 06:14 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2004, 09:30:00 AM »
Quote





Shhhh...your right..it was only a dream...go back to sleep....shhhh...everything will be fine.....thats it......





zzzzzzzzzzzzzz


 :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2004, 09:32:00 AM »
PLEASE answer at least THIS one.  How long after you got out did you continue to surround yourself with these people?  I've heard rumors and read on these forums that people ended up being involved with Art or the Seed for years after they got out.  True or not?
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2004, 09:44:00 AM »
Well I think I can answer that for you anon.  This poster apparently didn't go to Ft Lauderdale, but  people that were in the Seed in the mid 70s and early 80s in Lauderdale continued to go to raps for 10 and 20 years. Some estimates were as high as 60 of them while new inductees were floating somewhere around 10 to 20 per year. It became real important for the continuance of the seed to keep as many people dependent on the Seed as possible. They were told they were the cream of the crop, Homo superior, etc.

Maybe someone who was there, Cleveland or RJR could answer this better, but that is what I have been told.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2004, 09:50:00 AM »
Absolutely fucking AMAZING.  I just can't get over that.  No WONDER these people can't recongize that it was a cult.  They're still IN it!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2004, 09:56:00 AM »
http://www.thestraights.com/images/seed ... inwash.gif

Please go read this.  Here is an excerpt:

There are indications that a cult of The Seed has developed which leads seedlings to associate only with other seedlings and to ostracize those who associate with non-seedlings. This has led to the formation of continuing limited peer groups outside the program which restrict seedlings' interaction with normal society. Allegiance to such a peer group may lead to a transfer of decision-making and opens the possibility that if the peer group shifts direction it may return its members to drug abuse or turn them to other anti-social behavior.  

1974 Report by the Staff of the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. [Saint Petersburg Times, 4-26-74, p. 7B].
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Offline Somejoker

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« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2004, 09:58:00 AM »
for the most part, not really. But you need to understand that when someone spends that much time devoting their life to something, criticism is not taken easily and clarity is sometimes hard.

Understanding is what is needed here.  These people have an important story to tell and I appreciate them being here. I have learned so much that I didn't have a clue about from them. Their contribution here is tremendous.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #118 on: November 09, 2004, 09:58:00 AM »
Couldn't resist, here's more:

I know many returned Seedlings, there are many here at the High School. When they return, they are "straight", namely, quiet, well-dressed, short hair and not under the influence of drugs compared to their previous appearance of stoned most of the time. However, they seem to be living in a robot-like atmosphere, they won't speak to anyone outside their own group. . . I have noticed that it is almost necessary that the Seedlings be rehabilitated into social situations upon their return from The Seed. . . I attempted to visit The Seed in order to speak to them about how we could work with them and what we should do. I asked for help. I was treated rudely, two people who went with me, were denied permission to enter and were closely watched in a separate room. In addition to rude treatment, I was told that The Seed was not interested in helping us. The Seed counselor with whom I spoke, said, "We are not interested in educators or any of the people out there because they don't know anything. The world out there stinks, we will not come to school people."

Seedlings seem to have an informing system on each other and on others that is similar to Nazi Germany. They run in to use the telephone daily, to report against each other to The Seed. . . I used to take kids there. Now, I know that a number of the children are back on drugs and I am not sure whether the method in which they do return home and the difficulties they have in school, is an improvement over their previous condition of being on drugs.

Telephone statement of Helen Kloth, Guidance Counselor, North Miami Beach Senior High School to Paul T. Schabacker, Senior Health Planner, Individual Rights and the Federal Role in Behavior Modification, A Study Prepared by the Staff of the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights of the Committee of the Judiciary of the United States Senate, November 1974, pp. 190 -191

 

It's a question of philosophy. What do you want for an end product? Do you want a robot, or someone who can think and act for himself.  

Thomas Perrin, a former alcoholism counselor talking about the Straight-legacy program Kids of Bergen County [Bergen Record, 7-27-86, p. A17]

 

I wasn't me anymore, I was them. I thought what they thought, I did what they wanted me to. I could feel a sense of brainwashing.  

Twenty-two-year-old Lenny in 1986 describing how he felt after leaving the Straight legacy program Kids of Bergen County in 1984. [Bergen Record, 7-27-86, p. A17]
 

The Seed was funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse which was directed by Drug Czar Robert DuPont who later became a paid consultant for Straight, Inc. Dr. Donald Ian Macdonald, Straight's national clinical director, became White House Drug Czar.  In the first 18 months of operation a half dozen directors left Straight. Board member Theodore Anderson had this to say about Straight upon leaving, It has many of the poor points of The Seed and few of the good points. If I had to recommend one I?d recommend The Seed.


What is meant by backbiting, or criticizing behind one?s back? . . . Some comrades have something to say about other comrades, but they never speak out openly. They always talk behind one's back . . . then this can be called criticizing behind one?s back, which is prohibited by the Party.
From a captured Communist Chinese document in Brainwashing in Red China, the Calculated Destruction of Men?s Minds by Edward Hunter, p. 193. (Edward Hunter invented the term "brainwashing" in the cited book. One effective way Straight controls its members is by forbidding them from talking about what happens in the program. It is called No Talking Behind Backs. On page 61 of Dr. Miller Newton's (Straight's former national clinical director) PhD thesis on Straight he lists the Fourth Handout to the New Parent's Raps, Rule 4: No talking behind anyone's back, staff, families, or clients, by name or inference, neither positive, negative, nor neutral comments. He lists Rule 17: Parents should leave promptly after Open Meetings and raps. No parking-lot gossip.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #119 on: November 09, 2004, 10:18:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-11-09 06:58:00, Somejoker wrote:


Understanding is what is needed here.  These people have an important story to tell and I appreciate them being here. I have learned so much that I didn't have a clue about from them. Their contribution here is tremendous.



"


Point taken.  Guess I got upset when we were told "don't mess with my dad....".  If they're going to be here then they're probably going to see/read stuff that they don't like.  It also still really gets to me to hear people extolling the virtues of the Seed when I know how much damage was done to sooooooooo many in there.  But your point is well taken.  There is always something to learn.
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