Any fond memories, lessons or other positive aspects of The

[Somejoker]

On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.  It is so great to hear from people who remember  the Seed for  the great work they did.  Art  and all the staff  were heros, working endless hours to help us get through some rough times. "

Rjfro22, were you on staff?
Do you currently live in Ft Lauderdale?

thanks in advance.

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.  

Really? I guess they never told you that you were a worthless piece of shit and that your parents didn't want you anymore. That bit really worked a number on my youngest brother.

When my dad went down for his "checkout" interview, he wouldn't sit for a smart assed 16 year old demanding answers to personal questions and dictating what he could or couldn't do, who he could and couldn't associate with. So, he "flunked" his checkout and wasn't allowed to attend open meeting or to come around the house once my brother made oldcomer. Regardless, he still thought my brother needed the Program, so he paid and donated and collected donations from friends, even though he wasn't allowed to see my brother.

Those delicious cold cuts you got for lunch sometimes? Fuck Art, he didn't buy them, even though he certainly had the means by then. Thank Louie DeFasio of Roma Deli in Pompano and John McNulty for soliciting those ongoing donations.

All the while, maybe even the night I remember sitting in the car out in the old orange grove w/ my dad while my mom attended open meeting, you sadistic sons of bitches were telling my brother that his dad loved his beer more than him. Poor Tommy, right? If only he knew the truth. But, alas, he's so thoroughly washed that he didn't believe me when I told him the truth.

He didn't get straight, either. I found out just a few years ago that the day he came home to help get me into Straight he was strung out on coke. He's been through 3 marriages while bouncing from one XA group to another. If you're going to take credit for anyone's success, then you have to take responsibility for his failure. After all, you turned him against his own father when he was only 14.

Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By  any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
http://www.masscann.org/quotes.htm' target='_new'>Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young,  DOJ/DEA

[rjfro22]

No, I was never a staff member,  but I was asked to stay on, but I decided to move to California and start a new life.  To be a staff member   was such an unselfish act and I was not ready for that, and my hat goes off to those who choose to help others
unconditionally.

[GregFL]

thanks for the answer rjfro22. You left out whether or not you currently live in ft lauderdale.

thanks again.

[GregFL]

On 2004-10-14 12:23:00, rjfro22 wrote:

"Everything I learned in the Seed were positive life affirming lessons, I am  grateful for the Seed   for giving me these gifts at  an early age.   "

Everything?

You mean like screaming at 14 year old girls that they were so full of shit they couldn´t even fuck a coke bottle?

Like reducing to tears anyone that didn´t agree totally with someone.

How about it is okay to lie to someone if the end result was they would get "treatment" aka entry into the seed?

Like screaming in peoples faces at top volume?

Like holding people, illegally I might add, captive inside of rooms at night and watching them defecate because they hadn´t "earned the right" to privacy.

How about learning that your life was worthless before you found an affirming group of people?

crap, the list of fractured lessions learned in the seed could go on for pages.....

[rjfro22]

GregFL
             I live in Los Angeles since
1976. I think we were in different programs,
I remember tough love when needed,  the group even came down on me at times and I learned a lot from it. I never saw anything like what you have discribed.

[GregFL]

The seed constantly tweaked the culture. I personally witnessed as did others at the St pete seed little tiny 14 year old girls stood up, berated sexually in front of the entire group.

The "I bet you couldnt even fuck a coke bottle" routine was repeated ad naseum and usually left the little girls crying and spent. Also, "guys never liked you, they only used you for sex"  "you were nothing but a joke on the streets" type bellittlement was not only common but routine.

I have noticed a phenom with people who support the program and that is they often have shut out the negativity and refuse to discuss it.  I think it has something to do with really buying into the big lie that you were worthless and going to die without the almighty help of the seed, and that all means were justified by the redemption (purity as one recently described it) the seed gave you.

I didnt need to be saved by those nuts. I could have done just fine not spending 12 hours a day in that hot warehouse without adequate food or water in constant fear of being confronted and having my freedom stripped from me.

I am sincerely glad you are posting  here rjfro22, I just think you really havent stopped to critically examine the processes you went thru that cause you to be a grateful graduate of thought reform.

check out these quotes.


 "The whole trick is to make you feel like the lowest scum of the Earth. I knew it was wrong. I wanted to stand up there and tell them they were all full of it but I didn't know my court order was phony".

Archie Mcrimmon, former seed employee, describing the "come down on you therapy", remembered that Seedlings were forced to stand up in front of the whole group of Seedlings and listen to hours of abuse and also reflecting that he stayed there because he was told he was court ordered, which later turned out to be phony.


or....


 "If you don't, she will die".

Told to a potential Seed parent by a Seed father. The mother then called the girl out of class by telling her she had a doctors appointment, and the Seed father then, according to the girl, kidnapped her from St Pete Catholic and beat her on school premise. The Girl showed an evening independent reporter black and blue marks on her legs which she claimed resulted from the incident. The resulting scuffle in which the girl screamed and kicked as she was dragged to the car was witnessed by teachers and students in the schoolyard.

No charges were filed against the man by the St Pete police. The chief of police was a Seed parent.

The St Pete Independent 6/74

[Anonymous]

At the time when everything felt so surreal and uncertained about 3 days into the Seed
I can remember a golden afternoon light filling the back rap room bringing to me for the first time in what seemed years  a overwealming peace of mind. I remember thinking "It's over" I can finally breath again as I looked out toward the truckers shed and the side lot.

[Somejoker]

what was the significance of the truckers shed, and does it relate to "Truckers" handle.

Thanks for the explanation in advance.

[Anonymous]

This was not meant to be a cryptic message.
The Truckers shed was the Shed on the side lot where all the tools were kept for gardening and maintance of the building.Big in the early 70's when the Strd84 Seed opened the guys who did the work on the grounds were nicked named "The Truckers" so the shed was called the Truckers shed. I was just trying to convey a mood.

[Anonymous]

cool. I figured you were being literal when you said that but I was always curious why he called himself trucker. I actually thought he may be a long distance driver right now.

You cleared it up. Thanks.

[GregFL]

I visited the Lauderdale Seed twice, once while an oldcomer and the other time when I was an oldtimer for about 2 months.

When I was an oldtimer I showed up with my sister, newly graduated expecting a warm welcome. For some reason we thought it would be cool to stop by.

 They were all suspicious at first, sat us down at a desk and grilled us on why we were there. Soon John loosened up and took us in an introduced us to the group, brought us back for a minute or two talking to Art and then basically said goodbye.

I remember walking out with my sister and saying "that was weird" and leaving. I don't think we much discussed it after that but it really creeped me out the way they acted. I think that was my last formal contact with the seed.

[TRUCKER]

Yes I was a trucker.Does any one remember the large snakes that were caught in the old building
at the end of the asphalt lot?

[TRUCKER]

TRUCKER

[Anonymous]

Some of the best people I have met in my life are from the Seed.I've been away for many years now but it never fails I will be driving home and some old memory will resurface and a smile will come to my face.
 On one occassion I was spending sometime with a cousin of mine that knows a couple of other Seed guys although,he never went to the Seed not so much as a single open meeting he made this statement to me that took me by surprise. "come to think of it Some of the best people I've met are from the Seed".