Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Conversion: the "Three Day Miracle"

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cleveland:
Interesting.

I really didn't know about much of this besides The Seed; pretty amazing.

I looked up WWASPS in an online dictionary, and it came up with some damning evidence:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.c ... nd+Schools

Keep up the good work!

cleveland:
Why is there a suit by PURE? I read their webpage and it is anti WWASPS.

There is so much more to this than I would have thought.

GregFL:
Long story cleveland, and really in my opinion just a missed attempt to gag free speech. I fully expect it to go away, but I can say this because I am not a party to the suit. It is best left alone right now until it goes away...which I believe and hope it soon will. My final word is that Ginger deserves a lot of credit for putting herself out here by providing vision, bandwith and software for these forums.

Meanwhile, if we keep doing what we are doing, bringing this discussion out into the open, the truth will find its way. We welcome all opinions to this forum and all participants because we firmly believe this is the only way the truth will be known. All forums here are totally unmoderated with the exception of  The seed discussion forum which is only moderated for personal attacks...anything else here is open game.  I will vehemently defend anyone's right to post their opinon here and will defend any and all from personal attacks no matter what their position or opinion.

I think we are hijacking an interesting thread with this diversion. Your initial post deserves more attention than we are giving it.

Seven Years?  WOW. I was in the seed for about 7 months and it had a profound affect on me. Seven years is a long long time. You know more about the seed than perhaps all of us.

Tell me one thing...where the hell is Maggie Canfield and where the hell is Suzie Connors and John Underwood?  I would so like to talk to one of these people.  Last I saw of Suzie Connors I was working in the Lauderhill mall in the record store and she came in and bought the "saturday night live" album for a friend at christmas. Her comment was...."she likes disco..I no nothing about this shit, which is a good album". This was the only thing she would say to me but she was polite.  Maggie I had seen about a 1 1/2 year earlier and spoke to her briefly in the same mall. their group home was right down the street in an apartment complex, the same one where I had my confrontation with Art Barker.

cleveland:
Staff was totally different in my day. It is possible that Suzy Connors and John Underhill came to the Seed when I was there; they were kind of legendary.

Seven years was a long, long time. I missed the early days of intense activity; I came in after it was a voluntary program and you couldn't be sent in by the courts, or by your parents against your will.

Robert Chun (Chung?) came in from time to time. His visit was always special and he was always accompanied by Art. He was one of two African Americans I remember.

I was around enough to be close to the inner core, but I was never an insider. I was sort of a dutiful guy to run errands and help out, but I was never entrusted with real status. I think this is because I was honest enough to have doubts, and self-depricating enough to think that I was the problem.

After seven years, I had tried to branch out. I wanted to work with my hands in a boatshop; I was told no. I wanted to study art; I was told "art is kind of a feminine thing, and artist are weird people, aren't they?" - I wanted to date someone (Sr. staff no less - what was I thinking?!) and I was told, "she loves everybody" (and I thought I was special!). So, I remember on my seventh anniversary, I got a plain card that said, "seven years is a long time" - that's it - signed by the woman (or "chick") that I was in love with.

And I though, It sure the fuck is! It wasn't long after that that I left.

So, I have been in two of Art's houses, on his boat, lived with some of the senior staff, and played way too much football on the beach (I was probably the only one who hated this more than Raps!)

Art, Libby and staff were always pleasant to me, in spite of the fact that I could not be myself and was intensely repressed and unhappy, it is hard for me to think of them as evil people. Mislead, misinformed...I never saw physical punishment (but plenty of shameful mental torture) and I did see kids with big problems "change" (or at least imitate) happy, hard working and sober people. But - what a cost. And look at all these other horrible programs that have taken mind control even further.

Yes, viva free speech!

GregFL:
Cleveland, I don't think of them as evil either.

Misquided..yes.

Cult members...yes.

A tad weird....certainly.


But Evil? No way.

In their minds they were saving the world, they were "getting kids straight", they were fighting a war against a evil. In this rabid belief that they needed to save us kids at all costs, many people were emotionally and mentally harmed, many families were broken, many lives shattered.

On the anon anon home page, Ginger has a quote that I think says it best..

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-- C.S. Lewis.

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