Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

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Anonymous:
Just for the record the Seed never condoned or had anything to do with Straight. The Seed was very much against the formation of Straight or any other rehab that was formed out of the Straight mold.
Straight was a direct result of some over zealot Seed parents that went rogue. I never was witness to any of the alleged atrocities at the Seed that occurred on a daily basis at Straight. After reading some of the Posts from Straight survivors I don't think I would have accomplished much at Straight other than to build a good healthy resentment toward Straight.
 Straight claims in the beginning to be born from the Seed but a much closer look reveals many differences and a much more violent approached to how people were handled. I can only speak from my own experience the Seed overall at least for me did more good than bad.
I know it will be argued that this is a mute point and the end result was still the same. The Seed still spawned the Straight program. Speaking only for myself and again I will emphasis with no personal experience with the Straight program. It seems to me that the Straights were born from the egotism and greed of the Sembler?s who used Straight for their own self-promotion with no regard toward the lives they were affecting. The Assembler?s justified this by claiming to have saved the lives of many children. The Sembler?s loosely used the Seed as a mold but taking all the bad points of the Seed with very few of the good points. This is why the Seed was so against the formation of Straight or any other rehab claiming to be based on Seed practices.
 As per Ginger ?Ginger I feel for you?. No one should be forced to go through what you went through. Although it may seem that we sometimes be on the opposing ends of this Forum. I can understand your pain and anger. My heart does go out to you.

Anonymous:
that isn't the only reason the Seed was against it. It trampled on Art's private little kindom to have other Seed type rehabs out there. Straight was a direct copy of the seed right down to the placement of the chairs, the hours, the rap sessions, the steps, everything.

The end result was the same, many harmed people and some people that claimed it saved their lives. Many people abused and many people saying abuse never happened.

Different people responding to the same cultic thought reform practices, one under a cult leader and the other under a business model.

In other words, no major difference.

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2004-10-19 14:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"that isn't the only reason the Seed was against it. It trampled on Art's private little kindom to have other Seed type rehabs out there.

--- End quote ---

I think that's probably true. As angry as I still am about the whole thing, I don't think Art ever allowed himself to entertain the notion that he was doing anything but good. Remember all the rants against shrinks and schoolpeople (those who didn't sing The Seed's praises, anyway) and other, traditional, rehabs? Then when they set the consent form requirement on his federal funding, he just couldn't bring himself to admit that The Seed was experimental and dangerous.

Well Straight, Inc. fanagled a line into that same funding source. I think Wes has it documented somewhere on thestraights.com. Basically, NIDA ran the money through LEAA and LEAA made grants to Straight.


--- Quote ---In other words, no major difference.

--- End quote ---


No, I wouldn't say there were no major differences. It was essentially the same program and culture.

Straight was more Izod Lacross and less tye-dye. Straight was pro-religion where The Seed was athiest. The only thing we were allowed to read on 2nd phase was The Bible. Oh yeah, the phases were numbered instead of named. But they were the same.

You could get into some deep shit by walking into group or being seen anywhere by another Straightling (and there were always some close by) for failing to maintain a blithe smile on your face. "Your face is hard, just like when you were on front row."

They had a much better business model. Instead of anchoring on a cultive personality, they operated under a corporate plan. That's just a reflection of Sembler's expertise and culture, but it is a major, very important difference.  

Essentially, Art had a pipe dream wherein he played the superhero while Sembler had the expertise and the means to actually garner serious ecconomic and political influence.

I won't say Sembler was in it just for the money and accolades because his granson wound up in one of the programs formerly known as Straight in either Detroit or Cincinatti (can't remember offhand) just a couple of years ago. I'm sure these people are at least as sincerely convinced in the rightness of what they're doing as Art ever was. Maybe more.

I think there's a misconception about the physical violence at Straight. While I'm pretty sure it was more common than at The Seed, it was by no means as rampant as people seem to think. Remember that Straight was open for around 16 years w/ over 20 locations at it's peak. Those out of control incidents where people got physically injured or tossed around stick in people's minds because that's something anybody can understand. The entire two years I was in Straight, I was only restrained once and marathoned once for around 2 hours. I'm not at all sure that it was significantly more physical or violent than The Seed, though I'm sure we never played no damned softball!

The similarities are far more significant. I was able to watch this going on, even though I didn't fully appreciate what I was seeing till years later, because I already knew the game. So it didn't shock or bother me when my parents stood up and delivered their lines at open meeting. I knew already that my mother was ashamed of me, angry with me and didn't want me back home till I (was broken) started getting straight. And I knew just as certainly that my dad didn't really feel that way, even though he said that he did.

But to the real virgins? The little girl who had smoked pot one time and insisted that she really wasn't a druggie and that she'd be gone after her "two week evaluation" (very fucking funny, huh)? She was absolutely crushed. That was the last thing she had expected to hear from her doting father. You could almost hear her heart break. That's what happened to my very first newcomer. And I was sorely tempted to fill her in a little bit, she was in so much pain! But I knew also that the Program is very, very effective and that, if I took her into my confidence, she might very well have an attack of concience weeks or months later and turn me in.

That's the kind of thing that sticks w/ you; that betrayal, turning family against each other, that isolation in a crowd, pretended love and acceptance... the snitch culture. Those aspects of the Program were carried though unchanged.

But here's something I've wondered about. Awhile back, somone asked me if I was the 'cute little blond kid' at open meetings. I was. And I've often wondered what you guys thought about that. I vaguely remember overhearing conversations among the adults, like maybe my grown brothers, about how messed up it was to take a little kid to open meetings and those endless, smoke filled coffee klatches at Denny's afterward. Didn't you guys think it might be a little messed up? Or did you think like my mom did; that I was one lucky kid to be getting the "gift" of The Seed right from the start?

What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?  
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Anonymous:
Ginger do you think that Sembler might of had a hidden agenda?
Did he try to influence the Straightlings and mold them into mindless followers for his political gain? Kind of like the Hitler youth movement that occurred in Germany in the 1930's.
Do you think Art Baker had a similar agenda?

Antigen:
I actually do think there's a legitimate comparison to be made between the drug war and other, more infamous government/social cleansing programs. And both Art and the Semblers, not to mention a good many others, are or have been dedicated to this agenda.

But it's not a hidden or secret agenda. They're right out in the open with it. Remember the "pot-smoking = terrorism" ONDCP ad campaign that came out during the Super Bowl 2002? Or, prior, under Clinton's admin, drug czar, Barry McCaffrey using federal demand reduction funds to get script writers to slip a little more propaganda into your nightly entertainment? Did you catch any of the news in around... 2000 or so, when Sen Bill McCullum was pushing for field tests in Florida of bioengineered fungus designed to attack marijuana, cocaine and poppies?

I'm not asking rhetorically. All of these stories got significant ink in the press in their time. But drug policy has been an interest of mine since a good many years before I started looking into details about The Program. So I don't know if you would have even noticed or discussed these kinds of stories or not.

But yes, I do think it's probably not a coincidence that TOUGHLOVE® groups started sprining up in Australia just after Büsh I sent Sembler there as ambassador or that the first ever private prison corporation was established in Italy just after Büsh II sent him there as ambassador.

More recently, Congress has increased the limit on the number of military personnel and 'advisors' allowed on the ground in Colombia. Now, we've been involved in Colombia's civil war for a very long time already. But some of the principle people in the Drug Free America Foundation (DFAF) have, in the last couple of years, set up the Drug Prevention Network of the Americas (DPNA) and, shaw nuff, now we're seeing a marked increase in US involvement there.

What do you think these people are about?
There is something feeble and contemptible about a man who cannot face life without the help of comfortable myths.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic
--- End quote ---

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