Author Topic: Physical Contact  (Read 5622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2005, 11:16:00 PM »
Quote

On 2005-06-07 15:41:00, GregFL wrote:

"after seven years, I would probably just whipped it out, begged and cried.

 No doubt!!!

NO DOUBT for sure!! I guess us gals didn't hear this rap...NEVER did we talk about 'self gratification'.  Probably because we were smart enough to figure out when we were alone...we were ALONE, eh? Just had to abstain from the opposite sex (or, if so inclined 'same' gender) Big deal! Move on...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline cleveland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2005, 09:47:00 AM »
OK, Seedlings! What if Art was correct - what if those arranged marriages are more durable than many of our ex-seedlings are!

Discuss!

(I'm just trying to provoke discussion - you ex-seedlings are starting to get boring. What - are you going to force me to go read Straight postings!?!)

(Side note: I understand that many of those Seed marriages endure...)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ally Gator

Offline Stripe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 286
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
Geez, one would think in this day and age, even if folks don't believe that The Seed or Straight were as bad as the programs really were that some reflection on the intiate life (both physical and emotional) would give a clue as to how warped the programs made people.  

Present day: Aren't the spritualists and the psychologists and psychiatrists and Dr. Phils out there willing to acknowledge that this kind of programming results in some very confused people?  

When I think about people I knew from the program - it's an either/or classification - at least until there is some kind of acknowledgment of what was done to them.  

Either the person cannot stand to be alone/single and must always have a squeeze (no matter how bad it is) or the person is just the  just the opposite, hell-bent on keeping every kind of emotional and physical intimacy at bay by any means necessary.

 [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-06-09 11:27 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Stripe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 286
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2005, 02:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-09 06:47:00, cleveland wrote:

"OK, Seedlings! What if Art was correct - what if those arranged marriages are more durable than many of our ex-seedlings are!
Side note: I understand that many of those Seed marriages endure...)"


OK - what about the notion of free will?  

If you look around the world, there are many cultures where arranged marriage is the norm, and when those marriages take place, you are right - they most often succeed.

But arranged marriages by (f)Art were not a cultural phenomena here in South Florida or in St. Pete or in Ohio.  Contrary to what the leaders wanted to belive, they were not a guiding cultural force.  This was, again, mind control in its purest form.  Hook you up with someone for life so that you can never ever have a moment to reflect?   Perhaps the only reason why a marriage like that might last is because the partners are still under the influence.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Physical Contact
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2005, 03:35:00 PM »
Depends on how you define success, Cleveland. Are they happy together? Kids happy? Is the family a part of their community? Or do they just stay together because of a taboo on divorce?

sunday school: A prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline cleveland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 410
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2005, 10:26:00 AM »
Ginger,

We're unlikely to know, unless someone chooses to post their experiences here. I'm just trying to provoke discussion!

My personal experience was that the lack of an intimate relationship for many years left me relatively unequiped to jump into it successfully. After a false start or two, I consider myself lucky.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ally Gator

Offline marshall

  • Posts: 180
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2005, 02:48:00 PM »
From the link:
"The Moonies claim that the divorce rate among their arranged marriages is 10%. This compares favourably with America and most European nations but at what price?
Daniel O'Connell is a professor of Religious Psychology and he believes the Moonies' approach to marriage risks missing the central message of the marriage contract. He says, "I find it in fact a violation of the very nature of the marriage bond, which is a free contract between two parties. And it is the freedom of that contract which constitutes a very essential part of the bond."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_repo ... /35377.stm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline landyh

  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2005, 12:09:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-06-06 14:18:00, cleveland wrote:

"OK, MGG dared me to post on this topic...so I will.



Physical contact/sexuality...



Guys and girls strictly segragated...Art made sly sexual jokes (Evie being 'healthy' - large breasted. Seed kids being celibates - whoops, celebrants! etc.) Anyway, we were all sexually pent up. I think guys to some extent and probably girls even more so got some of their sexual energy released thru same sex contact. Not sex, but touching and cuddling if you were a girl, and rough-housing if you were a guy. I wasn't very sophisticated at 19 but I knew some people were gay, even though I hadn't had a lot of knowing contact (any gay kid at my high school would take pains to hide it, except for one or two flamboyant kids who I didn't know at all well, and kind of embarrased me) but I knew there were gay kids at the Seed but it appeared that they were trying to be 'straight' sexually too. It must have been weird. But the straight kids were banned from all contact with the opp. sex except for: A. high status kids, who could date and marry with Art's permission and B. football. Ooh, football! The girls wore skimpy little bikinis which they made themselves. It was torture to see them, and play on the line against them. High status seed kids had other opportunities to hang out with the opp. sex, esp. if you were on staff or jr. staff. For the rest of us: saying 'hi' to the girl who served the warm coollaid and frozen PBJ sandwiches; once in a great while helping some girl carry something in or out of her car or maybe apt.



Masterbation - not supposed to do it, really. But...whoopsie.



And you were supposed to confess 'everything.' I found this to be a horror for me. Especially because you weren't supposed to have your head in the gutter...and because I did...



So yeah, girls and guys did some same sex touching/cuddling/hugging/kissing even, I remember...but no contact with the opp. sex. Lots of guilt, shame, confusion...



Although I have to say that being able to hug another guy w/o shame was a definite plus for me - maybe helped me be less homophobic.



There you go, MGG. "

Just to balance things out a bit when I was on 3rd ave at 9 there was no prohibition against hugging the between girls/guys and i don't remember any prohibition on boy / girl relationships once you were an old comer. To be honest I don't exactly remember what the rules were by the time I went to St Rd 84 but I don't remember it being quite as restrictive as what you guys are posting. At nine there was often kisses fo me from the girls. maybe  I was excluded because they thought I was too young to worry about. Little did they know. I think those kisses were what made my experience the first time positive as much as anything else. Just being a cute kid made for alot of attention that i needed. Wish it was still that easy.:wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Whatever thou put his hand to do it with all thy might\" King Solomon

Offline GregFL

  • Posts: 2841
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2005, 12:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-03 09:09:00, landyh wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-06-06 14:18:00, cleveland wrote:


"OK, MGG dared me to post on this topic...so I will.





Physical contact/sexuality...





Guys and girls strictly segragated...Art made sly sexual jokes (Evie being 'healthy' - large breasted. Seed kids being celibates - whoops, celebrants! etc.) Anyway, we were all sexually pent up. I think guys to some extent and probably girls even more so got some of their sexual energy released thru same sex contact. Not sex, but touching and cuddling if you were a girl, and rough-housing if you were a guy. I wasn't very sophisticated at 19 but I knew some people were gay, even though I hadn't had a lot of knowing contact (any gay kid at my high school would take pains to hide it, except for one or two flamboyant kids who I didn't know at all well, and kind of embarrased me) but I knew there were gay kids at the Seed but it appeared that they were trying to be 'straight' sexually too. It must have been weird. But the straight kids were banned from all contact with the opp. sex except for: A. high status kids, who could date and marry with Art's permission and B. football. Ooh, football! The girls wore skimpy little bikinis which they made themselves. It was torture to see them, and play on the line against them. High status seed kids had other opportunities to hang out with the opp. sex, esp. if you were on staff or jr. staff. For the rest of us: saying 'hi' to the girl who served the warm coollaid and frozen PBJ sandwiches; once in a great while helping some girl carry something in or out of her car or maybe apt.





Masterbation - not supposed to do it, really. But...whoopsie.





And you were supposed to confess 'everything.' I found this to be a horror for me. Especially because you weren't supposed to have your head in the gutter...and because I did...





So yeah, girls and guys did some same sex touching/cuddling/hugging/kissing even, I remember...but no contact with the opp. sex. Lots of guilt, shame, confusion...





Although I have to say that being able to hug another guy w/o shame was a definite plus for me - maybe helped me be less homophobic.





There you go, MGG. "


Just to balance things out a bit when I was on 3rd ave at 9 there was no prohibition against hugging the between girls/guys and i don't remember any prohibition on boy / girl relationships once you were an old comer. To be honest I don't exactly remember what the rules were by the time I went to St Rd 84 but I don't remember it being quite as restrictive as what you guys are posting. At nine there was often kisses fo me from the girls. maybe  I was excluded because they thought I was too young to worry about. Little did they know. I think those kisses were what made my experience the first time positive as much as anything else. Just being a cute kid made for alot of attention that i needed. Wish it was still that easy.:wink:"


In st pete, you couldn't express ANY interest in the opposite sex or you were in for some serious punishment. Even LOOKING at the other side of the isle could get you lambasted and come down on.

Lamby, could it be that when you were 9 you were treated with special care, and that is one reason all those memories are so positive?

Hell, I can't hardly remember anything that happened to me when I was 9, at least not in any way other than a general memory.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline landyh

  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-03 09:23:00, GregFL wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-03 09:09:00, landyh wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-06-06 14:18:00, cleveland wrote:



"OK, MGG dared me to post on this topic...so I will.







Physical contact/sexuality...







Guys and girls strictly segragated...Art made sly sexual jokes (Evie being 'healthy' - large breasted. Seed kids being celibates - whoops, celebrants! etc.) Anyway, we were all sexually pent up. I think guys to some extent and probably girls even more so got some of their sexual energy released thru same sex contact. Not sex, but touching and cuddling if you were a girl, and rough-housing if you were a guy. I wasn't very sophisticated at 19 but I knew some people were gay, even though I hadn't had a lot of knowing contact (any gay kid at my high school would take pains to hide it, except for one or two flamboyant kids who I didn't know at all well, and kind of embarrased me) but I knew there were gay kids at the Seed but it appeared that they were trying to be 'straight' sexually too. It must have been weird. But the straight kids were banned from all contact with the opp. sex except for: A. high status kids, who could date and marry with Art's permission and B. football. Ooh, football! The girls wore skimpy little bikinis which they made themselves. It was torture to see them, and play on the line against them. High status seed kids had other opportunities to hang out with the opp. sex, esp. if you were on staff or jr. staff. For the rest of us: saying 'hi' to the girl who served the warm coollaid and frozen PBJ sandwiches; once in a great while helping some girl carry something in or out of her car or maybe apt.







Masterbation - not supposed to do it, really. But...whoopsie.







And you were supposed to confess 'everything.' I found this to be a horror for me. Especially because you weren't supposed to have your head in the gutter...and because I did...







So yeah, girls and guys did some same sex touching/cuddling/hugging/kissing even, I remember...but no contact with the opp. sex. Lots of guilt, shame, confusion...







Although I have to say that being able to hug another guy w/o shame was a definite plus for me - maybe helped me be less homophobic.







There you go, MGG. "




Just to balance things out a bit when I was on 3rd ave at 9 there was no prohibition against hugging the between girls/guys and i don't remember any prohibition on boy / girl relationships once you were an old comer. To be honest I don't exactly remember what the rules were by the time I went to St Rd 84 but I don't remember it being quite as restrictive as what you guys are posting. At nine there was often kisses fo me from the girls. maybe  I was excluded because they thought I was too young to worry about. Little did they know. I think those kisses were what made my experience the first time positive as much as anything else. Just being a cute kid made for alot of attention that i needed. Wish it was still that easy.:wink:"




In st pete, you couldn't express ANY interest in the opposite sex or you were in for some serious punishment. Even LOOKING at the other side of the isle could get you lambasted and come down on.



Lamby, could it be that when you were 9 you were treated with special care, and that is one reason all those memories are so positive?



Hell, I can't hardly remember anything that happened to me when I was 9, at least not in any way other than a general memory.



"

I have no doubt that my age was a factor in that first experience. Remember not only was I young but I was the only person anywhere close to my age . So even my personal experience with Art in which he was caring even gentle with me were surely at least in part due to my age.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Whatever thou put his hand to do it with all thy might\" King Solomon

Offline Johnny G

  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2005, 01:38:00 AM »
I recall all of the taboos, then the talent show!!  As mentioned in another thread,  "Holy Shit now what do I think?"  

Although I must have been sufficiently out of the gutter to be allowed to be able to be around the girls apartments while working on their cars, unsupervised.  Which was a mixed blessing, back to the gutter!

The whole "condom in the back of Arts car" event just seemed to twist the knife.  

The football games were disturbing to me on several levels - that could probably be a thread to itself, but I managed to draw the "watch the house" duty in my later days, which probably was best for all concerned.

I spent some time talking to a seed girl at work and that got back to me via the staff in a not pleasant way, reinforcing the taboo.  I left before the repercussions of that could fully manifest;

On the outside, I was pretty clueless how to deal with the whole dating thing, sex etc.  made a few bad choices, I wasn't in high school any more. I got involved with a rape survivor, who had a lot of fear and other issues - underneath it all a sweetheart, which gave me another set of issues to deal with  (guilt for being male).

Then I made the whole thing worse by running off to college at 25.  I got over the gutter/guilt connection pretty soon therafter - I also worked with a rape survivor group at college.

I met my wife at a beer and sandwich place in school

When I was invited to a reunion/dinner/talent show/open meeting event years later (I forget the whole title of the thing) it seemed that half the group was married - (I had my soon to be wife with me - an outsider, I still don't know how that happened).  That was pretty surreal!

I left before the rash of marriages, I guess one had happend before that, but it seemed a lone data point.

it seems I am rambling so I will quit and post this.

JG
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Jupiter Survivor

  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2005, 06:09:00 PM »
"The whole "condom in the back of Arts car" event just seemed to twist the knife"

Ok, What did I miss?

You know....if the Seed was in Utah, who knows how many "wives" the old bastard would have.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Physical Contact
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2005, 11:14:00 PM »
:nworthy:  :nworthy:  :rofl:

http://fornits.com/quotes.php?rno=772

Ok, that spells it! Sometime before or immediately following the holy daze, I have to make it simpler and more obvious how to submit quotes. It's just not fair losing out on those gems ya'll must see every day. Hassle me if you want it and I don't get it done, please.

Clancy's Law: The perceived role of governments is to deploy ever increasing resources to the attainment of  ever diminishing end results.
--Home Page

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Jupiter Survivor

  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Physical Contact
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2005, 07:55:00 AM »
Sorry, I am technically challenged.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Physical Contact
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2005, 01:57:00 PM »
No, no. It's not that. There is no nifty provision for ppl to submit quotes, except to email me. I'll fix that.

If every cigarette you smoke takes seven minutes off your life, every game of Dungeons & Draggons you play delays the loss of your virginity by seven hours.
--Brian Warner - The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes