Springfied VA late 85, Stoughton MA 86

[Antigen]

Oh fuck! I hit edit instead of reply.

Bink said something to the effect of... well I'd better not. Anyway, this was my reply.


 Well that's funny because the same thing happened to me and to a whole lot of other people I know. You want to talk about a trashed life? Ok, I'll give you some.

By the time I got out of the Twilight Zone and went back home, every single soul I had ever known had somehow become convinced that I had been carrying on a secret dual existance as a hard drug addicted prostitute. I mean neighbors, old teachers, my dear old Cousin K. Everybody.

I had only one friend in the world who would rent me a room in her house. She had put her older son in the Seed because my mom insisted. And she put my friend, Steve, in Straight for the same reason. She finally pulled him after an open meeting where Nancy Gettinger implored the parents to start bringing in some rich kids. I'd love to know what more was behind that, but she always got very agitated and upset whenever I tried to ask.

That happened while I was somewhere between juvenile detention in Georgia awaiting extradition to Florida for the "crime" of being a runnaway. This after one failed abduction attempt each by each of my parents. My parents were completely turned against me.

But what else would anyone expect? What the hell did we all do to each other day in and day out? Same damned thing, really. Kid sits down and says "Addict? Me? No." and from there the borw beating never stops. Your life is scorched slowly while you miss everything that happens in the world, including family funerals and presidential assasination attempts. Only news we got to watch was a plane crash into the Potomic and The Deer Hunter, of all things.

I spent probably 3 or 4 of my last years before internment actively avoiding anyone affiliated w/ the Seed as much as possible. I was scared of them. They might think I had a bad attitude or was dressed to gamey or my eyes looked read and try to "help" me. I'd seen it happen so many times before. One brother was essentially excommunicated for not completing the Seed. It wrecked him. Of course it did! What do you expect when you dump a kid out into the world alone after cloistering them for so long and having severed all of their supports AND given them the "rehab" stigma?

Like I said waaaaay back at the beginning of this conversation. I don't believe hip because I like him. It's the other way around. What he describes has been SOP in this cult since the `70's. The alternate explanation is that, somehow, Dean kept you on staff even though you hated his guts and everything he did as a staffer and flat out refused to do things his way. How much sense does that make?


[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-04-02 18:49 ]



_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW  
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
return undef() if /coercion/i;[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-04-02 18:52 ]

[Anonymous]

what?now i'm george bush?...lol....look at yourself dude! i was fired because,as you so eloquintly stated"a breath of freash air"....sylvia and dean didn't want that....lol...george bush?good lord dude,next thing you'll be saying is that i was responsible for the rising cost of gas too!funny how damon was such an asshole to me,watched whatever i did,
and claims to know nothing was up....thats a scary thought actually....because then he has NO reason at all for his actions except that he really was a nazi prick in straight!you know,i really wish there were some stoughton straight PHASERS out there that remember damon....not the "straight is great" or "straight helped me" croud that seem to be trying to flog me....dude,if i was a "breath of fresh air" then how or why would you hook up with someone who was a repressive jerk to ppl? damon may have made changes....but he has a lot of fessing up to do around here.....the walls were paper thin in straight!top secret shit didn't last long in there.....everyone knew something was up except me! i know that because i got blackballed by the seven step society too....when you were on your phases,didn't you wonder why i never came in to see how you all were doing? i didn't come in because i wasn't allowed to....i was threatened with arrest if i stepped foot on thier precious property! i didn't do anything wrong!tell me,how many ppl did you see get started over for trivial stuff and thought to yourself"my god this is bullshit"....?were you ever set back and thought the crime didn't fit the punishment?....well,in this case,the program that drilled it in my head for 28 1/2 months, that my "sobriety" depended on my "support group",
took my "support group" my friends,my jobs,my girlfriends,my freedoms,my family away from me!
they told my stupid mom that i was doing drugs...
{instant blackball from the family}....followed me around and scared my job{s},my friends and my girlfriends away.....{finacial and emotional losses}then told everyone that i was doing drugs
and i lost my "support groups"!.....nooooo,dean and sylvia weren't just happy with firing me,they had to ruin every aspect of my life.....and they had my roommates helping them....! shit,everyone else but me,knew i was fired for "suspicion of drug use" except me! i didn't know that till a year later....thanks to an ex staffer that got the axe too......now,in the last 3 months,i found out a whole bunch of stuff....the truth about why i was fired....why i was arrested,and who called the cops.........you know what? believe what you want man......lol.....hip

[Binky]

On 2006-04-03 02:26:00, stillahippie564 wrote:

"what?now i'm george bush?...lol....look at yourself dude! i was fired because,as you so eloquintly stated"a breath of freash air"....sylvia and dean didn't want that....lol...george bush?good lord dude,next thing you'll be saying is that i was responsible for the rising cost of gas too!funny how damon was such an asshole to me,watched whatever i did,

and claims to know nothing was up....thats a scary thought actually....because then he has NO reason at all for his actions except that he really was a nazi prick in straight!you know,i really wish there were some stoughton straight PHASERS out there that remember damon....not the "straight is great" or "straight helped me" croud that seem to be trying to flog me....dude,if i was a "breath of fresh air" then how or why would you hook up with someone who was a repressive jerk to ppl? damon may have made changes....but he has a lot of fessing up to do around here.....the walls were paper thin in straight!top secret shit didn't last long in there.....everyone knew something was up except me! i know that because i got blackballed by the seven step society too....when you were on your phases,didn't you wonder why i never came in to see how you all were doing? i didn't come in because i wasn't allowed to....i was threatened with arrest if i stepped foot on thier precious property! i didn't do anything wrong!tell me,how many ppl did you see get started over for trivial stuff and thought to yourself"my god this is bullshit"....?were you ever set back and thought the crime didn't fit the punishment?....well,in this case,the program that drilled it in my head for 28 1/2 months, that my "sobriety" depended on my "support group",

took my "support group" my friends,my jobs,my girlfriends,my freedoms,my family away from me!

they told my stupid mom that i was doing drugs...

{instant blackball from the family}....followed me around and scared my job{s},my friends and my girlfriends away.....{finacial and emotional losses}then told everyone that i was doing drugs

and i lost my "support groups"!.....nooooo,dean and sylvia weren't just happy with firing me,they had to ruin every aspect of my life.....and they had my roommates helping them....! shit,everyone else but me,knew i was fired for "suspicion of drug use" except me! i didn't know that till a year later....thanks to an ex staffer that got the axe too......now,in the last 3 months,i found out a whole bunch of stuff....the truth about why i was fired....why i was arrested,and who called the cops.........you know what? believe what you want man......lol.....hip

"

Take from this what you will...

There are three things that cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.

I see nothing, but "clouds" here...and I hope some day your minds are clear and free from all this massive delusion, bitterness and anger...

Clear mind is like the full moon in the sky. Sometimes clouds come and cover it, but the moon is always behind them. Clouds go away, then the moon shines brightly.

So I have hope for all of you.

~ binky

[Anonymous]

did you really even read what i wrote there? bink,
on my third post on this topic,after paul wrote me
to tell me that damon didn't know,i wrote an apoligy.....i asked him to forgive me.....but what i got was more of the crap this person{damon} was famous for....you know whats funny? i see that ppl like him can't "do" confrontation very good.....not enough practice at it i guess.
well,if you think about what i wrote,just think about it,you'll come to your senses....i'm not telling you to quit being his friend.i wouldn't wish that kind of rejection on anyone,although,thats exactly what i got from all of them up there.FOR NO REASON....except that is what sylvia and dean told everyone to do and everyone followed thier advise.the only reason they did it was because i wouldn't follow thier advise.i wasn't moldable.i wasn't someone who would follow thier orders with out question.i questioned thier authority and motives.i wasn't a jerk to them either.....in fact i was very polite,
but that didn't matter....try thinking for yourself binky.....

[Anonymous]

Take from this what you will...


There are three things that cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.


I see nothing, but "clouds" here...and I hope some day your minds are clear and free from all this massive delusion, bitterness and anger...


Clear mind is like the full moon in the sky. Sometimes clouds come and cover it, but the moon is always behind them. Clouds go away, then the moon shines brightly.


So I have hope for all of you.


~ binky

Can I get an amen?  :roll:

[teachback]

Sorry, that was me...forgot to login.

[Antigen]

Bink, you're starting to sound like Donny Rumsfeld...

I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7711&forum=8&start=42#157103' target='_new'>Johnny G.

[Squirrel]

Maybe I'm way off, but Damon was the least we had to worry about in Straight. Jodi Mossoulini? Dean Mistretta? I could go on but the many others I think have since realized what they were sucked into, so I don't want to embarrass anyone who comes to realize they were a part of something horrible.

I remember Damon as fairly rational and mild compared to other staffers, or even rabid phasers who would gladly take their pound of flesh from your ass.

The Straight mind control technique does not become ineffective the day you turn eighteen, nor does it cease to work the day you make staff. Many, many people who went on staff were still under the influence.

There were many staffers who though they were helping in the tough love way. There were some who went overboard. You are within your rights to be angry at them if you choose.

I choose to question the Architects of this program, and not the peple they experimented on. Pissed off? Call Mel Sembler. Find Dean Mistretta. Track down Miller Newton.

Damon didn't invent these techniques, and like most other staffers, and phasers (me), we were rewarded for standing people up and blasting them for things like "druggie haircuts" (I still don't know what those are, but I want one now).

Thanks for posting Damon. It can't have been easy.

Love,

Squirrel

[ This Message was edited by: Squirrel on 2006-04-06 11:57 ]

[Anonymous]

i p.m.ed damon.....never heard back from him...you're right squirrel.....the others are way more interesting subjects to deal with.i was just blowing off steam and anger that i had built up over the years.i have deanie boys phone number....i know where miller lives.the only thing standing in my way is this,:i'll never get my chance at them in front of you guys.....confronting them is one thing....but in front of the "whole straight group"? thats satisfaction!damon was very ridiculous in his treatment of me....so was the rest of "dean's boys"....they know it too.....i never gave them any real reasons for humping me,they listened to thier superiors and promtly stuck a john holm's salami up my ass....dean and sylvia koulker didn't really DO the damage or smearing,just like hitler and eva braun,they ordered it and watched thier minions do thier bullshit on me.....what was normal bullshit in straight,in group,was done to me and unlike in group,where i could redeem myself a little and move on,i was cast out of everything entirly!i never got to stand up for myself or at least have my say,they just threw me away like a piece of toilet paper and flushed me down......for 20 years,they had this belief that what they did to me,ruining my life even more than straight had already done,was ok....good for the group etc etc.....i just called them on it.to me,many of them don't want to think that maybe,just maybe,they were really really WRONG for what they did to me!.....am i still angry? yes i am!i just found out the truth about that time period 3 months ago!i was led to believe something else.in those 20 years,i convinced myself that it was all my fault....when i found out that it was a carfully excecuted manipulation
plan,at the hands of a few ppl,i was blown away.i'm glad i know,but i have to be honest,it was easier to believe what i thought was the truth!it was easier because i had already put that time period behind me the best i could.when i first found out what really happened,i was happy
because deep down i always knew it was bullshit,but as time went by,i found myself full of rage!rage because of how my family treated me after that episode in my life.rage for the road they manipulated my life down. that binky character said i need to take responsibilty for what happened to me up there....how many times did we all witness straight manipulate our lives unwittingly? way to many times for me to think about.after brainwashing me into believing i needed a support group and good straight "friends",they smeared my name and banished me from everything....took it all away and replaced it with bullshit.instead of a temporary consequence i could eventually earn my way back into,it was a permanent thing.i was blackballed and told if i ever stepped foot on thier property again they would have me arrested!
after 6 years of involvement in that place,in 5 fucking weeks,5 weeks!i was banished.....i never knew the reasons why till 3 months ago.i'm ok now.....not as angry as i was just even a month ago.i took an absense of leave from the fornits and other sites so i could get a grip on myself.i was jumping ppl's shit that didn't deserve it.TO THOSE I DID THAT TO,I"M VERY SORRY! i hope you can
see your way to forgive me....well,i have to go..sorry this post was long......hippie

[Psycho6]

M- Dude. I think some of these people are completely wacked. The anons get in here and just screw more with our minds. You're in a good place right now and moving along great. Ain't heard a thing from KA, but let him know that G. and I hope things are going well.  Yea, you were screwed after leaving VA and heading north, and I think a lot of us would like to 'confront' Dean M., Mel et. al. on staff when we were there. Maybe one day! When I'm done with the current gig and got time to get back there.. B.

[Nomad]

Know what's worse than being the third party topic of a thread that you started merely to say hello?

Nothing.

Matt, I read your PM this evening. I'd not been back to see it since you wrote it.

The trouble you had during your time on staff and your being fired was, obviously, a lot to deal with. I wouldn't wish that set of circumstances on anyone.

I'll not defend myself to you now, nor will I ever - I have no reason to. And, I'll not easily forget that you and Ginger would call me a Nazi. I don't care what context you used *particularly* since you stated, clearly, that you know I'm Jewish. There is no greater attack on one's character than that.

And even given all that, as I said before, I wish you well and hope that you're able to come to find peace. It took me a long time to come to terms with my role there, both as a phaser and staff but I have, and I'm comfortable with it. I certainly didn't do it alone - it took working it through with people who understand because they were there so if this, for you, is somehow cathartic, then I'm glad (in some strange way) that I could be a part of your healing process.

Regards,
Damon

[Anonymous]

i'm sorry i jumped your shit damon....its really not my nature.i guess thats why i had such a long program....i just stood there and didn't come up with quick answers.i was the guy that sat down and an hour later said to myself"damn,i should've said this to that ot that to this".....i understand how my calling or comparing you to the nazi's would piss you off,but that's how things were in there and that's how i percieved my "gang bang" in there.....remember this,the jews weren't the only ones that those f-ing assholes fried. they fried a lot of my ppl too! the Orthodox middle eastern christians! you see damon,my ppl were literally the jews that believed that jesus was the long awaited messiah!so i'm,just like you,a direct desendant of the tribes of judiah!if you remember what i look like,then you'll see those features in me.the village my ppl come from still speak arameic!that,was the language of our ppl until the muselem came in and tore the holy land to pieces. i didn't say that to you so much as to piss you off,but more to make you think about how things were and how what happened to me
up there was just like germany in 1930's and early 40's.....in straight's case it was "look!"
"he's different!""lets get him out of here!".....
and without even a thought,everyone helped dean and sylvia do just that!the rest is of course now,history......it's cool.....i don't hate you,nor do i dislike you either.....i wish that things had gone different,but they didn't....hippie

[Binky]

On 2006-04-06 11:55:00, Squirrel wrote:

"Maybe I'm way off, but Damon was the least we had to worry about in Straight. Jodi Mossoulini? Dean Mistretta? I could go on but the many others I think have since realized what they were sucked into, so I don't want to embarrass anyone who comes to realize they were a part of something horrible.



I remember Damon as fairly rational and mild compared to other staffers, or even rabid phasers who would gladly take their pound of flesh from your ass.



The Straight mind control technique does not become ineffective the day you turn eighteen, nor does it cease to work the day you make staff. Many, many people who went on staff were still under the influence.



There were many staffers who though they were helping in the tough love way. There were some who went overboard. You are within your rights to be angry at them if you choose.



I choose to question the Architects of this program, and not the peple they experimented on. Pissed off? Call Mel Sembler. Find Dean Mistretta. Track down Miller Newton.



Damon didn't invent these techniques, and like most other staffers, and phasers (me), we were rewarded for standing people up and blasting them for things like "druggie haircuts" (I still don't know what those are, but I want one now).



Thanks for posting Damon. It can't have been easy.



Love,



Squirrel



[ This Message was edited by: Squirrel on 2006-04-06 11:57 ]"

...I don't even know how to begin to thank you for this post --

Honestly - from the bottom of my heart - I've never heard it more perfectly put -- you're 100% right! - wow - really thank you!

AND - I love the line about the drugy haircut - LOL!

[Squirrel]

By the way, tto whomever made the Nazi comparison thing, it shows a scary lack of knowkedge of history. Our time in Straight more resembles that of North Korean Insulates than any type of German Experiment. Many psychiatrists say Straight was conducted as an experiment mimicking the No. Ko. regime to test its effect on dissidents.

It's also impossible to relate to the Jewish cause if you're not Jewish. One could make the connections of the Aramaic language etc. but I don't think any christian can relate. If you are a christian you are the majority. Where is your Diaspora? Where is your rejection from the Western world? Where is your Holocaust? Where is your marginalization?

Leave the subject alone. It doesn't belong here.

Squirrel

[Binky]

On 2006-04-06 17:47:00, Squirrel wrote:

"By the way, tto whomever made the Nazi comparison thing, it shows a scary lack of knowkedge of history. Our time in Straight more resembles that of North Korean Insulates than any type of German Experiment. Many psychiatrists say Straight was conducted as an experiment mimicking the No. Ko. regime to test its effect on dissidents.



It's also impossible to relate to the Jewish cause if you're not Jewish. One could make the connections of the Aramaic language etc. but I don't think any christian can relate. If you are a christian you are the majority. Where is your Diaspora? Where is your rejection from the Western world? Where is your Holocaust? Where is your marginalization?



Leave the subject alone. It doesn't belong here.



Squirrel"

Squirrel -- you are amazing!!!

You are my new hero!

 :nworthy:

Could have used you pages ago - LOL! - got all mad - and wondered where is the voice of sanity and reason!

Again -- thank you!

~ binky[ This Message was edited by: Binky on 2006-04-06 18:00 ]