Springfied VA late 85, Stoughton MA 86

[Antigen]

On 2006-03-31 17:56:00, Binky wrote:

People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control

Yeah, sure. In an alternate reality where the people watching are sane, objective and non sadistic. But we're talking about Straight, Inc here...

And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.

http://fornits.com/wwf/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=1153' target='_new'>Maximus

[Binky]

On 2006-03-31 22:04:00, stillahippie564 wrote:

"whatever you want to say....spin it anyway you want.i don't have much in the way of shame for my participation in straight.damon hasn't "owned up " to shit.there were no apoligies coming from him.....he just simply admits/brags about his involvement in straight...shit he even said he's still a prick.hardly humble about his actions in there dude...quit drinking the kool aid man....they were hardly like the 3 stooges or the marx brothers....adolf and co. fits exactly into thier actions...anyone who didn't fit into thier little club was nixed out!dean had a club like that in virginia too.....thats his M.O. ....john p. greg m. and i didn't fit that criteria,so we were nixed out. then some of the ppl who helped them were nixed out too,after they helped fuck us over.....a staffer named jean,jeene..? just to name one....i ran into her after my departure.i was in harvard square.....she's the one who told me why i was fired! you see,i was NEVER officially told why!....i had to find out a year later. then 3 months ago,i found out the real reason....paul told me!so fuck your "yatzee game" dude....your phases are over....lets all get real here......so far,the only one of you stoughton staffers i respect is paul....at least he had the balls to admit what happened to me and the others was a witch hunt and wrong! you're just justifying what damon did and wanting me to shut up.....i won't go away silently in the night.after paul told me to cool out on damon,he {damon}had to be a prick to me after i asked him to forgive me for jumping his shit....i had honest reasons to jump his shit,but thought i'd take the high road and apoligise....what do you guys do?"huddle up" when someone is calling you on bullshit you did in there and attack them with verbal insults and "intellect"? in anonymous paper bag form? he was one of dean's pet "henchmen".....anyone who's not drinking the kool aid would know this.you know,you all are still fooled by the program....i know,to some point,i was when i went up there.....after the witch hunt and the other stuff,i wasn't.....but by then it was way too late....."

You say:

"quit drinking the kool aid man..."

and

"lets all get real here"

I now realize you're incapable of getting real - you have moments of clarity and then go right back to the Jonestown mentality of they were all out to get me...they still are as soon as someone points out any of your resposibility -

You keep bringing up that people are trying to silence you -- which is so odd cuz no one is trying to silence you - you're creating these persecutory/Mesianic notions and making this board your very own Jonestown, Guyana - and you're the one prepparing, offering and drinking the Kool-Aid.

While i'm always open to debate and discussion I just don't see the point anymore -- I'm leaving Guyana before I wind up like Congressman Ryan.

 :wave:

[funster]

hey damon check your messages

[teachback]

On 2006-04-01 05:16:00, Eudora wrote:

On 2006-03-31 17:56:00, Binky wrote:


People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control

Yeah, sure. In an alternate reality where the people watching are sane, objective and non sadistic. But we're talking about Straight, Inc here...

EXACTLY. What is all of this shit you keep slinging at hippie about "taking responsibility"? You've attempted to explain this pretzel logic a few times now but it still doesn't seem to wash...

[Anonymous]

hmmmm, How many of you guys are from the Boston program? I was there from '88-90 and since we're all on the "taking responsibility for our actions" theme, I will stand, throw down my own glass of kool-aid and clear my throat. I take responsibility for getting so fucked up at such a young age that the state in which I was living took control and custody of me, bought into Ronald Regans's shit and threw me into a progressive "hell hole" rehab where i would rot for two years without any hope of an education. I also take responsibility for my natural curiosity of all the "other" drugs i found out about while in straight that I didn't do, but did do once I got out. I t.r. for flirting with the boys side and getting into two relationships (prompted in straight) that really sucked after straight. ( not the smartest thing, meeting in a rehad.) I t.r. for getting in fights and constantly being restrained, because i liked someone just holding onto me for a second before I lost my mind. But here's the best part, I take responsibility for the past, present and future and I can honestly say at this point it has been quite a ride. I'm too tired to feel sorry for myself because I'm in my 30's, working my ass off and still attempting to understand the big picture. Life is truely what you make of it, i didn't get that in my youth. We were kids and we all made mistakes. i made some great friends in that program,  but I made some enemies as well. I no longer care about the "haters", the lies or the bs that stems from people having nothing better to do than talk about someone else. Its over now, so put your gun down and get out of the bell tower before someone gets hurts. Geez....... :silly:

Leslie Albano

[Antigen]

Leslie, you didn't deserve that.

The present system is among the most impractical imaginable, if the facilitation of learning is your aim.
--Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner

[Anonymous]

previous ramblings due to too much wine last night.

[Binky]

On 2006-04-01 07:11:00, Frank Discussion wrote:

"

On 2006-04-01 05:16:00, Eudora wrote:

On 2006-03-31 17:56:00, Binky wrote:



People were watching you -- not in your control, but how you performed was in your control

Yeah, sure. In an alternate reality where the people watching are sane, objective and non sadistic. But we're talking about Straight, Inc here...

EXACTLY. What is all of this shit you keep slinging at hippie about "taking responsibility"? You've attempted to explain this pretzel logic a few times now but it still doesn't seem to wash..."

It's funny -- why is Hippie treated and protected like George W. Bush here?

Neither can admit mistakes they made and the people pointing out where they have made mistakes are attacked and painted as "Nazi's" or painted as un-Patriotic.

"What is all of this shit you keep slinging at hippie about "taking responsibility"? - that's the same W. Bush argument --

Matt keeps pointing to Damon here like Damon is Saddam Hussein and caused 9/11 -- you wanna talk Pretzel Logic? -- why is no one calling Matt out on that?

Where is Frank Discussion saying - good point - Matt's actually mistaken here

I'm sorry, but this is just crazy -- I wanted my previous post to be my final word on the subject, but I'm outraged at the hypocracy and biased view here -

This topic/string is like Fox News where the Prez can do no wrong - and Matt can do no wrong -

How is Matt supposed to heal and get better if no one holds him responsible for anything

I'm actually suprised that i haven't yet been labeled as staff or "one of Dean's Butt Boys" yet - that's Administrations way and that seems to be the way it's going here -

Before y'all get all defensive and pissed please take a look at what I'm saying - please listen to the merit of my points.

What's right is right and this is my last comment/post on this topic.

Again - I like Matt - I think back on him fondly and will always remember him in and as the same spirit of Bob Dylan -- something amazingly unique and the usher of change -- but truth is truth and right is right no matter who you are -

George W. can make mistakes and so can Matt -

As always - thanks for listening and thanks for letting me share my 2 cents - please consider the validity and merit of what I'm saying and forgive me as I will no longer entertain this topic - or anything more regarding Matt's past.

I really appreciate this forum and wish us all here the absolute very best life has to offer.

Talk to you soon -

~ binky

[teachback]

You're still not makin' that much sense to me, pal. Sorry.

[Antigen]

Bink, I missed the part in this thread where anybody accused Matt of anything. What is it, exactly, that you want him to own up to? Did he wrong you somehow?

On 2006-04-02 08:01:00, Binky wrote:


How is Matt supposed to heal and get better if no one holds him responsible for anything

Oh, I see the dissconnect now. Sorry, I guess maybe I should add an item to the terms of use about how this isn't group and you/we actually are not now and never were anybody's therapist. Unless, of course, you've gone on to get an education, certification, license and all that. If that were the case, why then you'd know from your training how incredibly inappropriate it would be to try and conduct therapy in such a setting as this and w/o having established consent to treat.

The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton

[Binky]

On 2006-04-02 08:28:00, Frank Discussion wrote:

"You're still not makin' that much sense to me, pal. Sorry. "

Then you and I can go no further with this discussion -[ This Message was edited by: Binky on 2006-04-02 11:48 ]

[Binky]

On 2006-04-02 09:09:00, Eudora wrote:

"Bink, I missed the part in this thread where anybody accused Matt of anything. What is it, exactly, that you want him to own up to? Did he wrong you somehow?

On 2006-04-02 08:01:00, Binky wrote:



How is Matt supposed to heal and get better if no one holds him responsible for anything

Oh, I see the dissconnect now. Sorry, I guess maybe I should add an item to the terms of use about how this isn't group and you/we actually are not now and never were anybody's therapist. Unless, of course, you've gone on to get an education, certification, license and all that. If that were the case, why then you'd know from your training how incredibly inappropriate it would be to try and conduct therapy in such a setting as this and w/o having established consent to treat.

The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton

"

Let me withdraw the How is Matt supposed to heal and get better if no one holds him responsible for anything remark -

You're right - that's none of my business and none of my concern - and this isn't the right forum for that at all.

I made a mistake and I acknowledge it - it's not that difficult to do

Nonetheless - the point still remains - that Matt is able to get away without taking any responsibility for anything he does - and yet I am called out for mentioning Matt's healing progress - and I take responsibility and answer for it - but - as usual - no one says "Gee Matt - calling Damon 'Eichman' might have been a little rough...might have been a little out of bounds"

Fact is Damon had absolutely nothing to do with Matt getting fired - so now Damon is held to a high standard of scrutiny because Matt falsley accuses him of something he had no hand in -

Where is Matt's appology to Damon?

Where is Matt owning up and saying I made a mistake and I'm sorry

Where is your (Eudora) comment to Matt calling him out for calling Damon a Nazi and making false accusations?

I just find it unfair and baffling...

 ::

~ binky

[Antigen]

On 2006-04-02 11:21:00, Binky wrote:

Where is your (Eudora) comment to Matt calling him out for calling Damon a Nazi and making false accusations?

Well, if you want to know, I rather agree. Not that I knew these people personally back then. But it's consistent w/ what I've seen flying back and forth around here and perfectly consistent with the training I know they received and with the word of damned near everybody who ever knew you Nazis back in VA and who has made any comment at all about it.

And I don't know that the accusation is false. Do you? Here's a clue. Ever send up a COC or report somebody for some dumb shit and then just sort of.... forget? Then when that person gets poked and prodded till they lose their temper and slammed hard for it, you just still go on forgetting that maybe you had something to do with setting that whole chain of events in motion?

Think about it. I don't know or care, Damon, about your personal feelings toward Dean. I do take it as probably true when ppl say Damon was the consumate super straightling under Deans regime.

What, you remember that differently too?

I just find it unfair and baffling...

Yeah, I guess you liked it a whole lot better back in the old days when staff was not questioned and you could just trash somebody's life and pretend you were all the ill-used, underapreciated victims of it all. Sucks, huh?

But this is what this whole conversation is about, at least from my point of view; understanding how the program "works". How they continue on committing felony child abuse throuhgout the land, often enough on public funding, and no one dares question them. A big part of it is that we ALL, except for a very rare few, played a part in the abuse, knowingly or not. Some seemed to really get off on it, others of us were just humoring you sadistic lunatics till we could get the fuck away from you.

Now, you're still just as welcome as anybody to come around here, read, post, argue or not. Do what you want. But I don't have to pretend that, for example, it's out of line to call Super Straightling staffers Nazis anymore. Frankly, it's right on the mark. Don't like it? Too fuckin' bad.

If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil
deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

[Binky]

Well that's funny because the same thing happened to me and to a whole lot of other people I know. You want to talk about a trashed life? Ok, I'll give you some.

By the time I got out of the Twilight Zone and went back home, every single soul I had ever known had somehow become convinced that I had been carrying on a secret dual existance as a hard drug addicted prostitute. I mean neighbors, old teachers, my dear old Cousin K. Everybody.

I had only one friend in the world who would rent me a room in her house. She had put her older son in the Seed because my mom insisted. And she put my friend, Steve, in Straight for the same reason. She finally pulled him after an open meeting where Nancy Gettinger implored the parents to start bringing in some rich kids. I'd love to know what more was behind that, but she always got very agitated and upset whenever I tried to ask.

That happened while I was somewhere between juvenile detention in Georgia awaiting extradition to Florida for the "crime" of being a runnaway. This after one failed abduction attempt each by each of my parents. My parents were completely turned against me.

But what else would anyone expect? What the hell did we all do to each other day in and day out? Same damned thing, really. Kid sits down and says "Addict? Me? No." and from there the borw beating never stops. Your life is scorched slowly while you miss everything that happens in the world, including family funerals and presidential assasination attempts. Only news we got to watch was a plane crash into the Potomic and The Deer Hunter, of all things.

I spent probably 3 or 4 of my last years before internment actively avoiding anyone affiliated w/ the Seed as much as possible. I was scared of them. They might think I had a bad attitude or was dressed to gamey or my eyes looked read and try to "help" me. I'd seen it happen so many times before. One brother was essentially excommunicated for not completing the Seed. It wrecked him. Of course it did! What do you expect when you dump a kid out into the world alone after cloistering them for so long and having severed all of their supports AND given them the "rehab" stigma?

Like I said waaaaay back at the beginning of this conversation. I don't believe hip because I like him. It's the other way around. What he describes has been SOP in this cult since the `70's. The alternate explanation is that, somehow, Dean kept you on staff even though you hated his guts and everything he did as a staffer and flat out refused to do things his way. How much sense does that make?


[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-04-02 18:49 ]

[Troubled Turd]

Love ya.  :lol: