Author Topic: My intentions  (Read 14356 times)

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Offline Cypress

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« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2004, 01:51:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-07-27 22:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-07-27 21:12:00, Cypress wrote:



I believe that the Cedu technique is inherently abusive.  You on the other hand disagree with this belief.





History has proven man's viewpoints on what constitues abuse wrong on many an occassion.  There was a time when slavery was not considered abuse.  There was a time when children as young six in the workforce was not considered abuse.  There was a time when cruel psychiatric treatments were not considered abuse.  There was a time when domestic violence was not considered abuse. I firmly believe that eventually, submitting children to extreme psychological torment (aka Raps) will be considered abuse.  I believe that depriving a child of their due process will be considered abuse.  I believe that submitting children to endless hours of isolation will be considered abuse.  I believe that restricting a child's access to education will be considered abuse.




Ottawa,



I have laid out my position on the faults I find with the Cedu method. (See above).  You want to know what works in the Cedu method. First answer me this.  What is it about Cedu that you like.  What exactly do you want to replicate? Please be as specific as posssible.  





 "


Sorry, that was me, I forgot to log in.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2004, 01:45:00 PM »
Ottawa 5,

 I'm assuming that your son is already in his 20's.  You just said that your son had to set up a web page with photos, web cameras, maps, and daily reports, which he had to update every day, just so mommy would let him attend college abroad!  MY GOD, YOU ARE A TOTAL CONTROL FREAK!!! I mean here the poor kid has an opportunity of a lifetime, and he can't even enjoy it because you have monitor his every movement!!!


Ottawa, I don't believe for a second that setting up a 24 hour surveilance on himself was your sons idea, especially since somebody had to be paying the bills for him to live and attend school overseas, (you of course). Knowing how much you worship cedu, I bet you even made him sign an agreement before signing the tuition check. Ottawa, you have your son so whipped that HE CAN'T EVEN GET LAID IN HIS OWN ROOM WITHOUT YOU WATCHING HIM!!!  :lol:

Ottawa, you love cedu so much because they whipped your son into your own personal obedient little puppie, thus insuring your own place as the dominant influence on his life.  I have no doubt that Ottawa5 will one day pick her son's wife for him, someone ottawa feels is worthy to hold his leash once she's gone.  Ottawa, your son is NOT someone who never backs down or who always stands up For himself, HE CAN'T EVEN STAND UP TO YOU!!!  Ottawa you are nothing more than a TOTALITARIAN CONTROL FREAK, it's so obvious now.  Ottawa, this is not the site for you, but please stay, it's funny watching the bitch come out more and more as you realize that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU!

As for Ottawa's Son, it's no wonder why
"Mr. Self-Surveilance" cedu sheep doesn't post on this forum, WE WOULD TEAR HIM APART!!!  you don't believe me Ottawa, then prove me wrong.  BRING YOUR SPINELESS,PUSSY WHIPPED, CEDU SHEEP SON ONTO THIS SITE!!!
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2004, 02:52:00 PM »
Real quick, I'm just checking in when I should be working, but you have it completely wrong--or maybe it was the way I expressed myself--I haven't got time to look.

Here is what I was trying to say-- there was no surveillance device or any kind of monitoring real-time, involved, it was just a situation where my son would be really far away, for a long time, for the first time since RMA, and he sensed, I think, that I was, as many mothers in that position would be, nervous about the whole thing.

So he, without me even asking, set up this thing (I am not very computer savvy so I may be calling it the wrong thing) but I think it was a web page--anyway it was a place where he would frequently post pictures of things he was doing and places he was going, so I could sign on and share, in this limited way, what he was experiencing.

Now of course he could have done anything he wanted in the rest of his life there and I never would have known.  And he probably did things I don't know about and that's perfectly fine and age-appropriate, and developmentally I really wouldn't want to know every move he makes as a young adult.

It's the fact that he would care enough to include me in the experience like that, at an appropriate level, the fact that he would consider that it would be comfort to me--these are the things that mark a truly geneuine relationship, and that's what I was trying to say to Cypress.

It was that two important things in this equation came out of our RMAS experiences: one was the strength in me to know, as you allude to, that he was growing to be a adult person, who had the right to make his own decisions, and in him, the kindness and insight to consider that it is hard for a parent to really feel OK with this, especially when there have been problems a couple of years back.

It's about love and connection without control, that's where we are, and what I ascribe to things that we learned at RMA.

Disagree with my belief that RMA skills are at  the source of our good relationship, if you like (although I will point out that we were there and at least theoreticially in a better position than you to know this), but please be nice enough not to distort what I am saying--like I say,though, I don't know if you were purposefully distorting or if I wrote something confusing late last night.

I've got to go--be fair in my absence, now.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2004, 04:06:00 PM »
It's going to be really interesting to see how this kid feels in oh, say 5 years or so.  Ottawa, you have no idea how many of us came out of those places as good, straight, obedient "adults".  Our parents were THRILLED with the results.  Then, the PTSD started to rear it's ugly head.  Completely different story from then on.  I pray that your son will someday be able to forgive you.  I havene't forgiven my father.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2004, 04:18:00 PM »
Ottowa, what would happen if, for example, your son started smoking pot or engaging in some other activity that you're sure would lead him straight to Hell? Would he still have college funding? An unconditional, cheerful welcome at home? Or would you take the TOUGHLOVE hategroup line and start withholding support and affection in order to coerce the behavior you want?

The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force.
--Thomas Jefferson

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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2004, 04:40:00 PM »
The convenient thing about these open-ended predictions that I see at this site sometimes is that a person never has to face the fact that of being wrong.

Why 5 years? If my son is doing great then, would you say, "Well O.K., I have to admit that CEDU works sometimes".   But, no, I imagine that you would probably say "Wait until 7 years" or "He's still brain-washed" or "He's being controlled amd you're a bitch controlling him" or "He's a bully so of course he believes in CEDU", and on and on and on.

Wouldn't it be more parsimonious, at least more intellectually honest, in the face of all the evidence, to just agree that CEDU at least sometimes leads to good outcomes? Wouldn't it make more sense than shifting about looking to explain away anything that disputes this almost faith-based belief that CEDU can do no good.

I mean, I am willing to say that CEDU has not done good for a considerable number of people, and to search for reasons why.  

Why is it so hard for you to admit that sometimes that CEDU training, education, indoctrination, whatever you would call it, had led to better functioning, relationships, self-image, etc, in at least some people?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2004, 04:47:00 PM »
Forget it...you'll never get it, never see it.  It's really sad.  Peace to your son....he's going to need it.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2004, 05:02:00 PM »
Are you Kidding? Do you really need her to answer? If Ottawa caught her son smoking pot, she would cut off his funds, make her son move back home,ground him to his room, make him attend AA meetings everyday, see a therapist 3 days a week, go to church every sunday,and forbid him from speaking to his friends or girls. As an added bonus, Ottawa will be constantly in her son's face bossing him around and reminding him that he is  a drug addicted, stupid, selfish, perverted, evil,dirty, and aweful person, and that only she can save him. And if Ottawa's son makes one peep in protest against his maltreatment, Ottawa will no doubt back up her threats to call the police and say that her son beat her.  Then he get's arrested & sent to county jail, where he will be anally raped as punishment for his insolence! (Ottawa will also consistantly remind her son of these "consequences" as well)

But it's all just part of the strict dicipline and "confrontational communication" that Ottawa learned from cedu, and loves so much.
Isn't that right Ottawa5?

[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-28 14:04 ]
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2004, 05:07:00 PM »
Parents have different responsibilities in their relationships with minor children, even adolescents, than in their relationships with adult children.  At least in my world.  And I think in the world at large, I mean that's why children can't move out of their parents' home on simple preference, sign contracts etc.  

Oh, I know some people think that 8 year olds should be able to vote, that sort of thing, but I have no common ground with such thinking, it is even hard for me to imagine that people with such beliefs have ever spoken to a child.


So the question is: what if my son was smoking pot, the assumption is once in a while, I think, with no interference to speak of, with his functioning in all important ways.  Would I cut off his funding for college, withdraw from him emotionally?

Well, if it is a legal substance then there is no question--he is an adult and can make his own recreational decisions.  Not so much because I have a great respect for the law, or for pot, but because then there is not even a worry of future drug testing, arrests, etc to interfere with the proposition you put forward in terms of the question of possible harm.

I believe, however, that you are speaking about the current situation where the drug in question is illegal, but if you only have a small amount, it is of minimal concern in most juristictions.
Here also, an amount of use that does not a realisitc personal harm risk, I would not worry about it much, unless my child had some kind of addictive behavior history, something that we have not experienced. If he wanted to discuss it with me I would certainly give him my opinion that there are better ways to enjoy oneself.

And I would certainly not exercise what is clearly my own right not to spend money to send him to school over such a thing.

Now here is a more interesting question.  What if he had a history of, say, heroin addiction behavior, and he chose to start using again while I was financing his college? He was getting himself into all kinds of trouble, failing his courses, which I was paying for, police stops, being belligerent and unkind to me.

My question to you: should I continue to pay for his college under those circumstances?  I mean, there is no question that I would continue to love him, and tell him so, and since he was an adult, I surely could not control his behavior, and I would not be inclined to turn him over to the police, unless he was a clear danger to himself or someone else.

So what do you think I should do in that scenario, as far as financing his life style?


[ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-07-28 14:15 ]
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2004, 05:12:00 PM »
Cypress--I appreciate your post from way, way late yesterday, I want to answer you as specifically as possible, and do it well.

Right now, I shouldn't even be here, I am under the gun in my real life, so excuse the delay, I don't want to insult your sincere question with an off-the-cuff comment of some sort.

I'll get to it, either tonight or tommorrow night.  I realize it's no big deal to you, but it's an interesting question to me, and I'd like to address it.
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2004, 05:13:00 PM »
Ottawa, if your son is shooting heroin then he is endangering his life.....OF COURSE A CEDU MOM LIKE YOURSELF WOULD CALL THE POLICE!!!

By the way for someone who claims she is not a cedu-mole, Ottawa5 sure spends a lot of time on this site. Think how much time she spends writing all these posts, which by the way, never give us a straight answer, just more questions!  Now we hear that you're under the gun in your personal life because of all the time you spend here defending Cedu, MY GOOD WOMAN, YOUR COMPLETELY OBSESSED!

[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-28 14:24 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2004, 05:15:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-07-28 14:07:00, ottawa5 wrote:


Here also, an amount of use that does not a realisitc personal harm risk, I would not worry about it much, unless my child had some kind of addictive behavior history, something that we have not experienced.


Are you fucking kidding me???  He had no addictive behaviors but you stuck him in a program anyway????  Oh, I know, don't tell me.  His BEHAVIOR was out of control.  

Folks, this should tell you everything you need to know right here.  Parents that don't like the way their kid behaves so DAMMIT...they'll MAKE em behave.  

Go away Ottawa.........PLEASE just go away.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2004, 05:16:00 PM »
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On 2004-07-28 14:12:00, ottawa5 wrote:

"
Right now, I shouldn't even be here,


yeah. you keep saying that.....GO then!!!!
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Offline ottawa5

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« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2004, 05:22:00 PM »
To the Anon poster--

When a 15 year old kid is using every drug around and acting out in all sorts or ways and refusing to engage with parents or professionals to discuss why, there, in that moment, it is difficult if not impossible to say whether it's an addiction or a behavioral problem.  

As most substance abuse counsellors believe, you have to get the drugs out of him before you can do much else. Something we could not do when he was on the loose, I admit.

So thanks again for your concern, I am not going away any time soon.

Funny, I was delighted, after he was back in the real world, to find an absence of addictive problems--I thought the fact that it turned out to be something more easily corrected like behavior, I was delighted.  Well, you can't please everyone I guess.

I've got to go before any more irresistable Invisibles poof out of the woodwork!
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2004, 05:26:00 PM »
AHaha, the true bitch in Ottawa never allows her to leave without first getting the last word! :nworthy:
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