Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

In Re: The Seed and their Successes

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FueLaw:
In response to the thread below in regards to the Seed actually helping some people. I would agree that the seed probably did benifit some of it's participant's. The problem with the seeds approach was that they believed that one size fit all. That certainly isn't true. In addition Art Barker used to boast of 90% success rates. His real rate was probably closer to 20%. For those 20% who actually got help , good for them, and god bless them. What about the other 80% who got little or nor help ? What about the others who got psycologically damaged by those bastards ?  Any program that screws up 80 people to help 20 is pure garbage in my book.

I realize some of the people who attended the seed have accomplished alot in their lives since leaving or graduating the program. I would also venture to guess that most of the people who achieved success don't attribute Ark Barker for it. Like Marni's brother I became a lawyer and my father likes to think that the seed had something to do with it. I think he does this to justify putting me in there so many years ago. He likes to think it really did me some good. I always correct him when we have these conversations. Any success I have enjoyed is not because of Art Barker or the seed it is inspite of it or because I survived it.

GregFL:
There are people whom claim all kinds of things saved their lives. Some say without Jail they would have died.
The thing about the seed is, most of us weren't dying, we were just told we would be dead,insane, or in jail without the seed and then made to adopt that mantra, forced to say it over and over until we believed it ourselves. I am sure that none of us would have got off first phase without standing up in group and saying these exact words repeatedly.
They would take the occasional addict/drug shooter they would get, and hold him up as an example of the greatness of the program, of the effectiveness, the necessity of the seed. It was mostly window dressing as true addicts were RARELY even allowed into the seed.
The vast majority of us were young pot smoking, perhaps the occasional qualude dropping, neglected kids from disfunctional middle class families. We needed families.

If the seed can take credit for saving these few examples, then they must also take responsiblity for the kids that killed themselves, for the scores that grew up feeling damaged, lost, inferior, empty; for the broken families and shattered lives; for the ones that jumped off the skyway and ended up in mental hospitals, that died of drug overdoses.
If a few addicts stopped shooting drugs, good for them, but they mortgaged the lives of thousands of non addicted kids.

blue morphine:
in my opinion, the seed is or was 1 of the "worse" drug rehabs around at the time. there were places like "concept house", "spectrum", and of course "the seed". they all pretty much tried to scare the living hell out of you...when i went in or was forced in to the seed i had already been shooting heroin for a few yrs prior. the seed and their 12 step mentality caused more harm imo than good. i think back and i remember a friend of mine , his name was Larry Spell... he was a viet nam vet( a marine) who had been through hell and back. well he was court ordered also like myself into the seed... he went through it and completed it. but about 2 weeks after completing the seed he turned up dead in a motel room from an overdose of heroin and or dilaudid... i am sure that the "seed" didnt help matters to say the least...
 this is just a little tribute to a friend Larry Spell. and to many others who this gulag type seed mentality has done way more harm than good..
 sorry to go off on a little tyrade here, it justs irks me to no end when thinking about the "seed"...
 thanks for listening..

  blue

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2002-07-23 18:34:00, FueLaw wrote:
In addition Art Barker used to boast of 90% success rates. His real rate was probably closer to 20%. For those 20% who actually got help , good for them, and god bless them. What about the other 80% who got little or nor help ? What about the others who got psycologically damaged by those bastards ?  
--- End quote ---

I think it actaully came out to something like 4%. Here's something on that
http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/20 ... 14-200.htm

The adverse effects have never, to my knowledge, been studied by anyone but Wes Fager in his online book at http://thestraights.com/ We're pushing for legal and/or schollarly investigation into  suicide and attempted suicide rates among people who've been dunked in Group® for any mount of time.

That, btw, is was and likely will remain my main objective and motive for involvement in these projects. The TC "treatment" modality has become the defacto cure all for substance abuse. We're making public policy based on the falacy that this is a safe and effective means of treating damned near anything that ails you. I'd like to correct that if I can.

MommaDebi:
Ditto.
"Any success I have enjoyed is not because of Art Barker or the seed~~~
 it is inspite of it or because I survived it."

debi

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