Author Topic: Hidden Lake Academy  (Read 34443 times)

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Offline Lynn m

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« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2005, 08:55:00 PM »
when you sign up to take a group there has to be some security that you will stay for the entire length of the program.  it is not healthy for these kids, some of who have a lot of attachement issues, to have someone that they come to trust just up and leave.  They make it harder for that to happen by requiring contracts and implementing penelties.  There are portions in the contract that make it so that you can get out of it without penelty.  There are of course reasons that employees are let go and that is taken seriously, too.
Oh, and there are always ways to get out of the contract and not have to pay the $3000, isn't there, hattie?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2005, 09:57:00 PM »
Lynn ill tell you the same thing I told Shh, your lies and manipulations hold no sway here. You claimed that the statement made about students being carted away during visits and inspections was untrue. This was a lie, I proved as much, you need to accept that. Now as a staff member of HLA Im sure your accustumed to anytime a student proves you wrong or catches you in a lie being able to simply slap on a work assingnment or place the child on restriction, however you need to accept that on here and everywhere outside of HLA you have no power and you can do nothing about me and others speaking the truth. Im sure thats upsetting to you, but you should get used to it. As far as proving me wrong...well you havent been able to do that as of yet, and I doubt you will ever be able to since all that you spout of is the nonsense propoganda youve been told to say, whereas I speak the truth. Let me ask you. did you come to this site of your own accord or did a staff member of the school discover it and ask you to be the point man on dispelling the truth thats told here and hopefully disuadding potential customers? If so why were you chosen?

As far as your other comment goes, could you discuss why there is in fact so much turnover at HLA?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2005, 10:07:00 PM »
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsey were the borogroves
And the mome raths outgrabe.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that snatch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought -
He rested 'neath the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And while in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes aflame
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock ?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsey were the borogroves
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300001479/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

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Offline Lynn m

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« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2005, 07:42:00 AM »
no, i was not "assigned" to this board, it is called free will, and no, i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong, trust me, i admit when i am wrong and as far as holding not salt, robertbruce, sir, you have been so bitter for so long that you can not see past your hatred.  it is really alright with me if we agree to disagree, but as for my statements being lies or me trying to manipulate, that is just you trying to justify your malice towards anyone who is at all for the program which has seemed to have brought you so much misery.  my advise for you, and take this as whatever you want, open you mind to other points of view as i am open to yours.  i understand that your stay there many years ago was less than helpful for you and that may really be, and if this is a cathardic means for you to cleanse yourself i am very happy that you have this opportunity.  we all need a little cleansing but again, just because someone's opinion is not the same as your does not automatically make it wrong.
as for the turnover, same reason any other company, school, industry has turnover.  i really do not have anything to do with that.  (this way you cannot say i am avoiding).  i truly am not trying to be manipulative, just giving my point of view as are you.  if it is not what your reality is, then that is really alright with me...oh, and when i am wrong, to the kids there or my own, i am the first to admit it.  sorry if that bursts the bubble that you have created about me.
again, you are using 4 year old information, things change when they are found not to work or that they are not productive.  i know when something doens't work with my family i change it, same goes for any business, school, industry, you are constantly evolving as i know i have in my many years and would hope that this would pertain to all.  i wish you could see that when mistakes are made or when something doess't work people are willing to change it to make it better.  but again i don't think you can see that through the veil of hatred and bitterness you hold on to.  and the reason i can make that last statement (even though "i don't know you") is because of what you have allowed me to see in your statements.
take care, i have to go to work now...and am grateful for that opportunity!
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2005, 02:17:00 PM »
Lynn- You speak of free will yet Im surprised youre even aware of the concept, as all your job really entails is to make sure no student has it correct?

>>>>>i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong,

You may not want to believe it but I did, on both counts. You claimed the statement about students being carted away during visits and inspections was a lie. I proved you wrong, accept that rehashing it only makes you look worse in the eyes of your bosses who Im sure are already displeased with your preformance on here.

>>>>>i admit when i am wrong and as far as holding not salt, robertbruce, sir, you have been so bitter for so long that you can not see past your hatred

Hatred? Bitter? Again you make assumptions about me without basis, you seem to be unable to seperate yourself from your work where you can perscribe an emotion, thought, or attribute to a child and force the child to agree with your assesement whether it is based in reality or not. I keep telling you though, you have no power here, you cant punish me for anything and cant stop me from telling the truth. That truth being your scared, you and all the staff memebers of HLA, lawsuits and threats of lawsuits are becoming more and more of a reality, the walls are closing in and youre afraid youre all going to get caught. Well your fear is well placed, the time to pay the piper is fast approaching, you and your superiors need to accept the consequences of your actions and stop trying to manipulate your way out of the situation.

Let me also give you a better perspective from which you can see where Im coming from. Lets say you were raped by a man who was a serial rapist and had raped several women before you and after you. Several years had passed since your attack and in that time you had forgiven the man (as I have forgiven HLA for the crimes they committed against me) and had long since gotten your life back on track and were now happy. But the oppurtunity presented itself to not only catch this man in the act but have him put away for life so he could never harm another woman again. Even though youd forgiven him, wouldnt you still seek to see that he was punished for his crimes? To make sure he never harmed anyone again and that justice was served? Even if he claimed to be reformed he would still need to be held accountable for his previous actions wouldnt he? I think if youre honest youll admit that you would in fact seek that justice. Dont assume Im after you all because Im angry or bitter, Im after you to ensure you dont harm anyone else and that you are held accountable for your actions, and Im not alone as you already know. Youve burned to many people and now theyve come to collect. The school is going to soon face several law suits and perhaps a class action suit, we will bring everything to the light and you will be exposed for what you are, and if we have our way you will be closed down.

>>>>>>but as for my statements being lies or me trying to manipulate, that is just you trying to justify your malice towards anyone who is at all for the program which has seemed to have brought you so much misery. my advise for you, and take this as whatever you want, open you mind to other points of view as i am open to yours.

This part is going to be hysterical

but as far as my statements stemming from my anger or bitterness, that is just you trying to justify your fear and narcisism towards anyone who is at all against the program which has fed your ego and powertrips. My advice for you, and take this as whatever you want, open your mind to other points of view as I am open to yours.

>>>>>just because someone's opinion is not the same as your does not automatically make it wrong.

You know whats funny I used to say this to the counsolers all the time during my stay at HLA, they never agreed. Its interesting how the requirement to be an absolute hypocrit is a neccsitiy to be an employee there.

As far as the turnover, you dont know why so many of your coworkers disappeared? Thats strange I would have thought you were a little closer then that.

>>>>>oh, and when i am wrong, to the kids there or my own, i am the first to admit it. sorry if that bursts the bubble that you have created about me.

Oh it doenst, afterall youre only repeating what was said to me several years ago, nothings changed.


>>>>again, you are using 4 year old information, things change when they are found not to work or that they are not productive. i know when something doens't work with my family i change it, same goes for any business, school, industry

4 year old information? I see, have your bosses instructed you to try and guess my identity? Again your manipulations dont work on here remember?

>>>>but again i don't think you can see that through the veil of hatred and bitterness you hold on to. and the reason i can make that last statement (even though "i don't know you") is because of what you have allowed me to see in your statements.
take care, i have to go to work now...and am grateful for that opportunity!

Again silly assumptions made by you as a result of your fear, coupled with your inability to admitt being wrong due to your narcissim, raging ego, and your bosses greed.

See you in court soon.  :wave:
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2005, 02:41:00 PM »
Lynn,
You are one of the most reasonable people I have encountered at HLA. Unfortunately, that is not much of a compliment.

Twice now you have suggested to RB, on the Amazing Forums board, that he should seek therapy and ?put all of this energy into some other venue?. And then elaborated, ?maybe you should try to educatate parents to do a better job, then perhaps their children would not need to come to schools like HLA or even much more restrictive environments.?
http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/252.html

Have you ever considered taking your own advice, and I don't mean that sarcastically, but genuinely.

If you really want to 'help'- educate parents and children- why not cut out the middle man (program) and go directly into people?s homes with your skills? By cutting out the middle man, you could charge half to two-thirds what the program charges, make a very decent living; and have a much better chance of realistically ?helping?. Like a Nanny 911 or Super Nanny for parents of teens.

RB is not ?spouting 4 year old rederick?,  in my opinion. He is sharing his experience which demonstrates what this program was/is like in reality. Whether changes have been made since RB attended, as you claim, doesn?t matter in the sense that HLA?s past ?mistakes? demonstrate a particular set of values (or lack of, in some?s opinion) and MO. Unfortuantely, values don't change overnight, so all the programs claim. One small example: To avoid state regulations for a residential therapeutic program, by claiming to be a traditional boarding school or ?special purpose? school, is ?out of agreement? with society?s rules.  As a self-appointed spokesperson for the program, can you provide insight into why any program would avoid regulations and oversight by the government? What crucial aspect or method of the program might be hindered by minimally protective regulations?

You claim that ?most of the kids there have earned their place?. I?m curious how you have come to this mindset. No kid ?earns their place? in a remote program isolated from the world and subjected to austere and experimental ?therapy? or abuse. No kid has earned the punishment of having contact with parents, siblings, and other family severed. No child has earned the punishment of having proper shelter denied.

It is my belief that when a child (or adult) is ?angry, hurt, mad, bitter?- as you diagnose RB to be-  they are 100% of the time having a reaction to something in their life. It may be a perfectly reasonable reaction, given the conditions in their home and how they?ve been raised, and other environmental problems. Did they ?earn? their reaction? No, not any more than the rape victim ?earns? their fear to be alone at night or their uncontrollable crying jags.

I find RB and others anger, hurt, bitterness to be justified. You have no right to place any evaluation on that. You, in fact, are having your own ?reaction? to people for saying things that you don?t like. It?s just a fact of life, unless one is a saint, to have a reaction when one feels slighted or disrespected. It?s a survival mechanism, which HLA works diligently to squash, denying all the while, that an outward appearance of being okay and happy does not guarantee that it has been internalized.

I?m very serious about my suggestion earlier. I see a real need for ?helpers? to go into people?s homes and ?help? parents learn how to treat their children in order to get the ?results? they are desiring. It?s so much more ethical than what?s happening across this nation in private teen prisons.

I would be singing HLAs praises if someone from there had gone into my ex?s home and pointed out that he was deferring to a narcissistic, psychotic woman who couldn?t stand for him to give his children time and attention that she wanted. No, my kid?s did not ?earn? their place in any of the institutions she insisted on. HLA did nothing to ?heal? that situation. They did achieve ?results?. Neither of my son?s now complain, or bother to attempt to communicate regarding anything of significance with their father. The one thing their experience taught them was that their father will take drastic measures, to their detriment if need be, to avoid challenging and difficult situations. They also learned that their step-mother is not the only narcissistic and psychotic person in the world. Some life lessons, huh?

Further, I?d be signing their praises if they had stayed out of our personal family business and dismissed my son due to conflict between the parents over the placement. Instead, they took $5,000 per month from my ex, did not seek a ?family history? from me (the parent who had spent the most time with him), perjured themselves during our court hearing, and stole two years from me and my son. Talk about reaction, I still have mine. And they swing from an ache that physically seizes my chest to an internal volcano that would like to erupt all over the facility. Don?t pretend for a minute that you are qualified or justified in evaluating my reaction to this injustice. And don?t ever, ever tell me I have lied or exaggerated. To do so would constitute the ultimate disrespect and/or ignorance on your part.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2005, 10:46:00 AM »
i'd be very concerned about a so-called "professional" who can't even spell "rhetoric."  what kind of education does this person have?  not much, it's safe to say.  this would make her a perfect fit at hla...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #82 on: March 03, 2005, 11:14:00 AM »
Also from Lynn's post... vica versa  :lol:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2005, 10:02:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-24 11:17:00, RobertBruce wrote:

Lynn: >>>>i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong,

You may not want to believe it but I did, on both counts. You claimed the statement about students being carted away during visits and inspections was a lie. I proved you wrong, accept that rehashing it only makes you look worse in the eyes of your bosses who Im sure are already displeased with your preformance on here.


I'd like to comment on this, if I may. I agree w/ Deborah's assessment that Lynn is fairly reasonable and open minded, as Program devotees go. I also believe that she sincerely believes what she said to justify taking the more abused kids out of frame whenever guests visit. When I was in my program, I accepted a whole lot of this kind of distortion, even to the point of blaming myself when I got my ass kicked around for a few days for refusing to make an insincere apology to Group for trying to get away.

I'm not kidding at all, I believed it. I understood on some level that the whole thing was really messed up, or I wouldn't have resisted at all, even that one time. But even after I was out, when the state child welfare people asked me if I had seen or experienced abuse there, I said no. I thought it wouldn't be fair or honest to frame what happened to me as abuse because I could have prevented it by just saying what they wanted me to say, even though it wouldn't have been true.

I was confused, to say the least. I think that simple fact was just about the only thing I was sure of at the time. And I had only been a client w/ some little pretense of authority given to upper phase clients. I don't think that's half the mindfuck that staff get, I honestly don't.

Lynn, if you dare, please read over a couple of things. I don't care if you respond or comment or not, but please just read this stuff and think about it.

This is what I think may be happening to you:
Stanford Prison Experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/

And this is what I think you're doing to these kids:
DR. ROBERT J. LIFTON'S CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/lifton-criteria.txt

I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.
--William Howard Taft, U.S. President

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2005, 10:33:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-03-04 05:50 ]
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline SHH

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« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2005, 10:44:00 PM »
There is a difference between brainwashing and trying to teach kids some respect and responsibility and a different way of behaving. My husband was a participant of the SEED in Florida in the early 70s..and their techniques were NOTHING like what HLA does. It was abusive. VERY different. Make no mistake, I do believe some programs are very damaging. HLA is not one of them. Its a very different environment than what my husband went through at the SEED.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2005, 01:10:00 AM »
But again Mrs. Grey how can you know, since you did not really know what was going on in the students day to day life? Espically in the therapy aspects of which you yourself admitted you were never a part of?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2005, 11:35:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-03-03 19:44:00, SHH wrote:

"There is a difference between brainwashing and trying to teach kids some respect and responsibility and a different way of behaving. My husband was a participant of the SEED in Florida in the early 70s..and their techniques were NOTHING like what HLA does. It was abusive. VERY different. Make no mistake, I do believe some programs are very damaging. HLA is not one of them. Its a very different environment than what my husband went through at the SEED. "


Oh, that's interesting as hell! Any idea how your husband became involved w/ HLA. And what about The Seed do you think was more abusive than HLA? Btw, he might find some of his old friends posting over on the Seed forum. Some of those folks stayed involved for decades!

Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

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Offline SHH

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« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2005, 12:52:00 PM »
The husband I am referring to that had to attend SEED in the 70s is not the same husband working at HLA. That is my EX husband who works at HLA. My new husband was a SEED survivor from Florida, and he already posts at the fornits survivors board.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2005, 01:18:00 PM »
The anon 04 graduate alleged:
?Most meals contain at least one or more deep fried dishes and a miniscule selection of food not containing meat.?

Lynn refuted:
?while a lot of the meals contain a fried selection, it is not the only choice, ever and there is always a vegetarian selection along with a nicely stocked salad bar... noted, there are usually a few more carbs then those who do the atkins thing would like.?

Let?s analyze. Keeping in mind, ?was the grad lying??:

Given that this week of sample menus is still representative of what is served:

L- Turkey soup, Spinach & Pasta Salad, Grilled Cheese, Chop Suey, Rice, Carrots
D- Pork  Loin, Dressing & Gravy, Roasted potatoes, Green Beans, PB&J

L- Chicken soup, Caesar salad, Chicken salad, Hot dog, Chili, Nachos, Vegetable blend
D- Fried drumsticks, Gravy, Mashed Potatoes, Fried fish, Corn

L- Minestrone, Waldorf & Potato salad, Pizza, Riblet sandwich, Potato chips, Green beans
D-Hamburger, Veggie burger, Chicken nuggets, French fries

L-Tomato soup, Tuna salad, Egg salad, BBQ pork sandwich, Manicotti, Tater tots, Peas
D- Turkey, Dressing, Baked fish, Mashed potatoes, Sauteed Veggies

L- Onion soup, Greek Salad, Pastrami, Tacos, Bean burritos, Rice, Corn
D- Italian subs, Stromboli, Beans, French fries, French bread

L- Chicken and Dumplings, Chicken Casear, Ham salad, Chicken breast, Mac and cheese, Peas
D- Seafood, Poorboy sandwich, Roasted potatoes, Peas

L-Mushroom soup, Tossed salad, Salami, Turkey wrap, Shepherds pie, Potato chips, Squash
D- Grilled Ham, Rice, Peas & carrots, Dinner roll
PB&J always available at lunch and dinner.

Now, for the vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy:

On Monday-lunch options are: Spinach and/or Pasta (bread) salad, The infamous Cheese sandwich (cheese and bread), Rice and Carrots.
For dinner: PB&J, Roasted potatoes, and Green beans.

On Tuesday-lunch options are: Caesar salad, Nachos (cheese and bread), and Vegetable blend
For dinner: PB&J, Mashed potatoes, and Corn

On Wednesday-lunch options are: Minestrone (if no meat stock), Waldorf and/or Potato salads, Pizza (cheese and bread), Potato chips (fried), and Green beans
For dinner: Veggie burger, French fries (fried), or PB&J

On Thurday-lunch options are: Tomato soup, Egg salad, Manicotti (cheese and bread),  Tater tots (fried), and Peas.
For dinner: PB&J, Mashed potatoes, Sauteed Veggies

On Friday-lunch options are: Onion soup (if no meat stock), Greek salad, Bean burrito, Rice, Corn
The most balance vegetarian meal offer so far.
For dinner: Stromboli-if it is vegetarian (cheese and bread), Beans, French fries (fried) or PB&J

On Saturday-lunch options are: Mac and Cheese (cheese and bread), Peas, and/or PB&J
For dinner:  PB&J, Roasted potatoes, Peas

On Sunday-lunch options are: Mushroom soup, Tossed salad, Potato chips (fried), Squash
For dinner: PB&J, Rice, Peas and carrots

I was a vegetarian for a number of years and consulted with a dietician. I can tell you that this is not adequate to maintain health. Being a vegetarian entails much more than just avoiding meat. It is crucial to consume adequate amino acids (building blocks of protein) and B12, which would consist of whole grains and beans/legumes, supplemented by nuts/seeds and OCCASIONALLY cheese (preferably as a condiment, not the entree), as well as a wide variety of vegetable proteins. This sample does not provide the necessary components of a healthy vegetarian diet. While any one of them might be okay if one was stuck away from home and unable to get anything else, it would not be considered ?healthy? by an educated vegetarian or a dietician, for any extended period. It?s way too heavy on cheese, bread/white rice/potatoes (refined carbs), and pb&j.

In 5 of 7 dinners the only veg entrée option was pb&j. Served with potatoes/green beans, potatoes/corn, potatoes/veggies, potatoes/peas, or rice/peas&carrots.  Yulk!!!  I?d be complaining too. Might even decide to give up being a vegetarian.

6 of the 14 meals, the main entrée was bread and cheese.

A ?FEW? more carbs?
12 of the 14 meals were hi carb, in my opinion.
All 14 contained potatoes, bread, and/or rice.

In 5 of the 14 meals one, of the few veg options, was fried.

And to touch on breakfast-  The most vegetarian options were available at breakfast, provided that eggs were acceptable. Potatoes served every breakfast- all fried by the way.

Based on this survey, I?d say the grad?s complaints are valid. She didn't lie, or exaggerate for that matter.  You?d be wise to consult with a dietician and/or warn parents that you are not capable of providing a healthy, balanced vegetarian fare to their child.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700