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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
Thanks for your lengthy response SHH. To the educated reader, it spoke volumes. You strike me as a generally nice person, just seriously naïve and defensive about things you know little to nothing about.

I feel absolutely certain that the ?excuse? for those infamous sandwiches was not because they were ?easier to transport to other areas of the campus?. The restriction kids ate outside the cafeteria on the curb. If they are eating what others eat now, it apparently wasn?t a problem with transporting a plate of food outside to the curb, and most definitely part of the abusive punishment regime. Just as eating separately, which IS stated in the parent manual.

Another point that hasn?t been made is that you claim that they ?were fed? and weren?t malnourished. You would not think that had you seen my son at the end of his first four months. FYI, a child can loose their ?privilege? to eat on any given day if their counselor decides they are ?out of agreement? while on restriction.
You must be confused, because I never ?claimed? that kids were taken to the hospital for being malnourished. I do believe they were fed just enough to keep them out of the hospital. And yes, had a doctor seen my son, he probably would have diagnosed him, malnourished. A gross oversight on my part- I should have taken him to the ER and had his condition documented and sent a copy to the judge.

Your mil made all those cheese sandwiches. She should have reported this to anyone who would listen, but then I can only imagine that she feels the same way you do, even though she?d never seen such a thing in the public school cafeteria. In fact, had she served public school kids the same ?restriction? diet for even a week, someone would?ve been coming down on her. Justify all you want, it?s not okay, under any circumstance. Prisoners are fed better.

I?m not going to argue that teens never lie. Everyone lies when they want to avoid consequences that don?t seem reasonable.  I will tell you that lying is modeled for them on a daily basis. I was even asked to lie to my son. When I confronted the counselor, it was suggested that I not think of it as lying, but ?not telling the truth?. The difference, please? I am in contact with another parent who had the same experience and consequently ended up removing their child. I could recount numerous examples of double standards and lying on the program?s part. If you want a child to be honest, better be modeling honesty.

You apparently don?t understand the difference between ?licensed? and ?accredited?, and are grossly mistaken, and misleading the public, when you claim that they are licensed and monitored by the state.
The state licenses programs after an initial inspection. They issue a permit and the program is required to follow their regulations to ensure the bare minimum of safety and proper care. Violation of those regs can result in sanctions. At their discretion, the state can also shut a program down if they incur too many violations.

Rather than reiterate the insignificance of ?accreditation?, in terms of monitoring the ?therapeutic? methods, I?ll refer you to another thread. Briefly, an accreditation organization is only concerned with the academic aspect of the program.  They do not monitor (nor does the 'Health Dept') how the kids are treated, the living conditions, do not have the authority to sanction mistreatment, etc. The worse that might happen- the program could loose their membership status. More on that issue: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&0
I can assure you that kids would not have been eating those infamous sandwiches had HLA been licensed and properly monitored by the state of Ga. Providing adequate nutrition to keep someone ?alive? is not acceptable, obviously, hence the change of policy. And, it was punishment. The other residents weren?t eating that diet.

Yes, a kid can frequently be on restriction for weeks at a time. My information is not second-hand, as yours is. I got a weekly call which included reports of when my son was or was not on restriction. Unfortunately, I had no idea what he endured while on restriction until I saw him for the fist time. That was not covered in the parent manual.

Directly from that manual:
Zaps- laps around the lake. Too many results in no weekend fun trips.
Other consequences- doing dishes, extra chores, calisthenics, or work assignments.
Bans- No contact with a particular person or thing (like basketball).
Restriction (Fall-In) - No free time, work assignments (on campus projects that involve physical labor) and writing assignments. Contact with other students severely curtailed, and they eat separately. Fall-In may last one or more weeks.
Table- generally slightly less severe and less lengthy than Fall-In. Work assignments, eat separately from other students. May last several days.
Focus- Writing assignments, eat last at meals, contact with peers not nearly limited.
Then you move to Clean Air and Wilderness- which has already been outlined here.

WHERE?S THE PART ABOUT LIMITED CALORIES AND VARIETY? Do you feel HLA was ?in agreement? when they outlined these restrictions, but failed to tell parents about the ?restriction diet?? Someone, at some time, knew the ?truth? wouldn?t fly with parents, so...perhaps they didn?t ?lie?, they just conveniently ?didn?t tell the truth?. The first time a parent heard about the diet was at their four month visit, when they were warned that they might hear about it and assured that, while ?sparse? it was ?approved by the Health Dept?.

While HLAs policy is ?no restraint?, it does occur. I am well aware of the dangers in that area- bears, bobcats, coyotes, and rattlesnakes. I didn?t sleep well when my son was at Ridge Creek sleeping on the ground on a black trash bag, no flashlight, no food or water, and a poncho to cover his head. He?d already had a close encounter with a rattlesnake. Did I mention it was extremely cold and he was vomiting all night?  And, there was no one to hear his calls for help or respond. Call me ?reactive? but what if he?d had appendicitis?  We?d be having a very different discussion.

No specifics on Rudy and Jill? You have determined that they were ?flakes?, but nothing to substantiate it? I am not defending them- I?ve heard some awful things myself. It would just be useful to hear someone elaborate on what ?flake? implies. Two years seems like a long time to tolerate a ?flake?.

So, you don?t ?know? any kids who went on to Ivy League colleges? Just heard of them. And you have no idea how their lives are today. I agree, it is sad when children prefer a residential facility to being home. I can?t speak to HLA buying Xmas presents, but I can tell you that some kids, whose parents did send gifts, did not receive them.

You are not telling me ?what you KNOW?. You are telling me, in most cases, what you?ve been told. Much of what both of us say comes from someone who actually experienced it- resident or staff. The difference is that you totally discount the kids and put complete faith in the staff. I don?t, and I think it is unwise to do so. I beg to differ, the staff at HLA do lie, and ask parents to lie.

You said, ?First of all..if a school decides that a practice isnt worked like they thought..or its not getting results...they change it..its called improvement...and thats what all schools do..DUH...the kids werent guinea pigs..they benefited from any changes made I am sure...but nobody intentionally opened that school to make kids guinea pigs...and secondly..nobody intentially avoided regulatioins..they were trying to get organizations to accredit them so how is that avoidance??? another DUH and it IS a therapeutic facility...they have counseling and NA meetings and AA meetings and therapeutic programs and rewards and they do community service and do things for the poor in the area and the elderly.?

No argument that HLA is a therapeutic facility. They told the Office of Regulatory Services that they ?began as a boarding school, then became a therapeutic facility?. Is that the truth SHH? Can you substantiate it?
Perhaps they had other reasons for ?avoiding regulations?, I don?t know, but my guess is that they knew they couldn?t implement their program if they were required to abide by state regs. HLA did not ?make improvements? until the state required them to do so. Yes, the kids who went through the program were guinea pigs for methods that have not been proven effective and certainly some methods that have been proven to be harmful.

To the issue of the teens not having access to phones. Your argument is well taken, in terms of the potential of planning a run away. That does not make it okay. Even psych hospitals and jails provide access to a public phone and the facility is required to post numbers to which inmates can report abuse. The teens at HLA and other BM facilities do not have that right, nor are they allowed to report abuse (real or perceived) to their parent without being punished.

OTHER QUOTES from Parent Manual:
Students on the Incomplete List (academically) lose their eligibility for off-campus trips and weekend movies; if they are on a restriction, their restriction does not end until they have made up all incomplete work.  
Indefinitely?
Incomplete List student can also loose the seasonal breaks- visits home.

?Agreements? is another word for ?policies; or ?rules?. Upon enrollment, students and parents agree to accept and abide by our policies?.
How many teens genuinely agree? To suggest otherwise, feels a lot like manipulation to me. How many parents are well enough inform about the policies to genuinely make that 'agreement'?

?Any behavior that violates school policy is termed ?out of agreement?.
Student may be asked to write a ?fall-out list?- list of information they have about any ?out-of-agreement? incident, whether or not they were actively involved. Fall out lists offer students an opportunity to be honest; if they choose to become hones, their own consequences may be decreased.
My child was punished for fall-outs provided by other ?lying, manipulating? students. When it was confirmed that he was innocent, he remained on restriction. They must have had difficulty determining which 'liar' was being honest.

Once your child is enrolled at HLA, your visits to campus must occur only at scheduled parent workshop/visit times.  First visit does not occur until the peer group is formed ? 4 to 6 months. Only certain events [sports, clubs, activities] will be selected as being open for parents? attendance. And only after completion of Water Element. Parents who are approved to attend events may not bring any special treats or any other kind of items to their child. Parents are not to transport their child to or from the event; student may not be in parents? vehicles at any time. Parents may be allowed five minutes to talk with their family members after the event, but parents must sit with other spectators rather than with their child or the team during the event.
Didn?t you claim that parents were allowed to drop in and that there were parents on campus all the time?

Requests for additional visits will be handled on an individual basis. Ex: parents or grandparents experience serious illness and/or surgery, parent?s remarriage.
Why did it take an act of congress to get more than a 24 hour visit when my father died?

Regarding the ?seasonal breaks?- Seasonal visits may be restricted for therapeutic reasons, which would, in our clinical judgment, put a student or family at risk.
And, Due to the eligibility requirements for seasonal breaks, we normally have a substantial percentage of our students remaining on campus during these breaks.

All mail to and from students will be routed through their counselors. At any point in the program, mail may be opened, read, and checked for contraband, inappropriate materials, or content that undermines students? work.

Student calls are scheduled during the evening hour Mon-Fri. A very limited number of calls can be placed Sunday evenings around 5pm. No call are made on Saturday.
Why did they require me to receive my calls during normal business hours? Could it be that they knew this created a significant hardship that could result in less contact with my child? I had to leave work and go home to receive my weekly call. That is ?when? I actually received it.

Please be aware that students will not receive a birthday call or extra time on their phone call if they are on restriction. Phone calls students miss because of an event related to their academic or therapeutic work or because of an athletic event in which they are participating can be rescheduled.
Why weren?t mine?
Students will not have their phone calls rescheduled if they are off campus for an optional activity that is not related to their academic or therapeutic work.
The child must choose between a rare off-campus event or talking to their parents?
At no time during the program are students to speak with friends (even ?positive? friends).

GCA 15-11-2 (2)(a) states that a ?child? is any individual who is under the age of 17 years.  Any HLA student who is age 17 will not be apprehended by law enforcement officials should they choose to leave HLA of their own accord, unless they commit a crime. For this reason, we strongly recommend that parents of students who are (or soon will be) 17 years old seek extended guardianship or custody of their child. Under the circumstances of the child?s behaviors which led to enrollment at HLA, courts will often be open to this extension for the child?s own safety. HLA is willing to provide testimony as to the need for extended guardianship.

HLA offers a clinically based ?insightful thinking program? that incorporates the best of other types [of programs], omits some methods that others use, and adds a number of unique features. HLA does not use restraints or locked rooms, relying instead on verbal redirection and on students? ability to maintain appropriate self-control. The professional staff-to-student ratio at HLA is less than 2:1.
Where is it mentioned that restraint will occur when they deem it necessary? Other places it is mentioned they are a non-restraint facility. Period. No exceptions are spelled out.

It is extremely important that you commit to the entire program before enrolling your child. Your complete support is vital to your child?s success here. It is not possible for lasting change to be effected in a few short months. Parents who have bought into this and withdrawn their children early have later told us they regret having done so. In addition, an early withdrawal is often viewed as a ?drop-out? by colleges or other programs to which you may want to have your child accepted later.
Do I detect manipulation?

At HLA, we take the future placement of our students very seriously. Post HLA placement has a significant impact on students? ability to apply what they learned at HLA and to continue their success. Therefore, we recommend the use of educational consultant, particularly those who are members of the Independent Educational Consultants? Association (IECA), in this placement process.

Not in the manual, but in a form letter:
Because future planning is an essential part of your child?s program, HLA will reimburse you up to $250 for your consultant?s after-care fee, contingent upon your child?s graduation.

From a form letter 2001:
Over the past few months we have heard from many parents the inconvenience that has arose from the policy of HLA not taking students to the dentist for routine dental work including cleanings. Coupled with the increased difficulty of coordinating medical trips so that they do not negatively impact the program in any way has help HLA evaluate its position on this issue. After considering all the options, we are please to announce that HLA has entered into an agreement with XXXXX to provide services exclusively to HLA student on campus. Not having to leave the campus for service will afford every student the maximum amount of time possible to continue the hard work in the program and still receive the best care possible.
How many other inappropriate policies are/were there? I?m sure the state would have an opinion about that. This is not ?growing pains?. This is a blatant disregard for the needs of the children.

If a child voluntarily withdraws after thirty days from admission, all pre-paid tuition will be refunded except for the tuition for the month the student is withdrawn and the 20th, 21st, and final month?s tuition.  Before thirty days, all tuition is refunded except the pro-rated tuition for the days in attendance plus a $1,500 admission charge.
Why did HLA tell the judge that my ex would loose all pre-paid tuition if my child came home for Christmas- just over thirty days after enrollment? Why have other parents had to hire attorneys to get their refunds? Why was one child classified as being withdrawn when HLA requested that the parent remove the child?  Dismissal or Forced withdrawal?
FYI, tuition received after the 1st incurs a $100.00 late fee. After the 7th, $375.00.

Should the student?s parents not be able to agree on the rights of one or both parents with regards to communication from the school, access to academic and counseling reports, and communications with, access to, and visitation with the student, then the school shall retain attorneys to determine these relative rights, and all costs and attorney fees incurred by the school will be billed to the parent responsible for the tuition and fees under the terms of this agreement and paid immediately upon receipt.
Interesting, I never received my child?s records after repeated requests. They certainly didn?t take this action to determine my rights.

And this one takes the cake: ?Receiving mixed messages from the authority figures in their lives is very confusing to teenagers and often allows them to justify their own negative behaviors.?
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Offline iknowcedulies

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« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2005, 05:31:00 PM »
I can tell you who the liars are and it is not those incarcerated in these extortion rackets posing as "teen help".   Rudy and Jill if you are so fucking honest and not in it  to hold kids against their will then post  a message under your user name.  The kids are brainwashed to think that doing whatever the cult leader says is good for them.  the cult leader usually tries to find out what he can use the kids for and that extends to demanding that the kid pay another kid money . the truth is that this is how they cover up exortion. they con the kid into thinking that they need money.  we all know that it is against state law to attempt to extort money from a minor but these  "child molestors"  do not follow state law.  they are narcisstic and only care about robbing kids they hate to steer it towards those they like.  The truth is that if the kid were allowed unlimited funds and to use phones in town unsupervised  50%  of the kids would leave and the "families"  of the cult leaders would have to suffer because they would not be able to "maintain" their six figure lifestyle.   they are greedy and selfish and they have legalized to being their right because their belief is that "we have to use you for something"  and they are filled with jealousy and resentment over the suburban home owners who fund their abuse and have convinced themselves that you "have it easy"  so it is their right to turn others against you , molest you and make it "as hard as they can for you" because once you get away from them your life will be easier and they will still be extorting and molesting boys to get what they want.  they are sociopaths who only care about themselves and not about how they make others feel after they are abused only about how they feel.  it is  a scam and a racket  and those who defend it are so self absorbed and blinded by "loyalty"  to the fraud they call a "school"  that they blame the victims of these scams.  these places are only good for  violent teens as an alternative to prison.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2005, 12:14:00 AM »
Just as a addition to a comment made by Lynn in which she claimed that restriction students were never hide away during visits or tours.

Shes lying. During my time there the school invited a group of Education Consultants to visit the school. I was not on restriction at the time however because I was exstremly vocal about my dissatisfaction with HLA I was taken away with the ones who were on restriction. As I recall leading up to the event work assingnments were given to all the students (punishment or not) to clean up the place, and the cafeteria suddenly served much better food for the one day that the Ed. Cons were present, after that it was back to the normal crap.

Just wanted to clear up one of Lynns lies.
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Offline SHH

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« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2005, 01:43:00 AM »
Robert educational consultants tour the school about once every 3 months or so....are you saying there was only one time you were sent to do something away from main campus while a tour was going on, the whole time you were there? Did you ever consider that maybe there was another reason for sending some students to another part? maybe to make some room for visitors to eat in the cafeteria? Oh thats right...youre right and everyone else is wrong. Never mind.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2005, 07:57:00 AM »
Get real Shh. You really are optimistic to a fault.
If restrictions normally sit on the curb outside the cafeteria to eat, why move them to another area, on the day of the Ed Con visit? Might that look bad?
I seem to remember someone defending that there was PLENTY of room in the cafeteria for kids and staff. Given that, and with all those restriction kids displaced from the cafeteria, seems there would have been ample space for a few visitors. Afterall, how many Ed Cons visited? The one my ex used never visited, not once.
What is obvious, is that they wanted the Ed Cons to see and interact with those who appeared happy and compliant. For some odd reason, they may not have wanted them to see the kids eating outside on the curb, or risk the chance of them seeing someone being PT'd for not tossing their plate when trash came by.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2005, 10:24:00 AM »
Shhh your manipulations dont work here remember? No I was not sent away with the others due to a space issue, I was sent away for the reasons I already posted, I know this because I was told in no uncertian terms as much by my counsolers. As far as me always being right and everyone else always being wrong, I wouldnt agree. Its just Im telling the truth and youre always full of it.
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Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2005, 10:29:00 AM »
Oh when can we expect you to respod to those earlier comments I made?
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Offline SHH

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« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2005, 10:41:00 AM »
I dont have time to respond to the lengthy ones right now..I am staying home to be with my son who was diagnosed with Pneumonia yesterday. The ones I responded to last night was at 1:45 in the morning when I couldnt sleep because I was up taking care of him. You know..that child you say I abuse??? that one...LOL
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Offline tlcrescue

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« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2005, 11:04:00 AM »
why isnt he in a hospital if he has pnemonia?  If it were my child, I would insist that he stay in the hospital because pnemonia is nothing to play around with.
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Offline SHH

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« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2005, 11:47:00 AM »
He isnt in the hospital because the doctor told me he didnt need to go...DUH...of course he would be there if necessary..the child isnt running a fever and is watching animal planet right now, and wants lunch...hardly a need for a hospital. Gotta run....time to make lunch.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2005, 11:49:00 AM »
First, how can anyone take you seriously if you back "ed cons".  They're PAID to send kids to these places.  Another job industry created by this whole fucking teen help movement.  Just like the goddamn kidnapper "escorts" that are paid to take kids there.


Quote
On 2005-02-22 22:43:00, SHH wrote:

 Did you ever consider that maybe there was another reason for sending some students to another part? maybe to make some room for visitors to eat in the cafeteria?



Second, the above statement???  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.

--James Burgh 1774

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline RobertBruce

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« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2005, 01:10:00 PM »
Shhh do you make your son try and feel guilty for all the time youre having to take away from your attempted propoganda campaign in order to take care of him?

I mean that would be the normal reaction of any staff member former or otherwise of HLA.

Try not to, that might constitute as emotional abuse.
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Offline hattie's had it

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« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2005, 05:32:00 PM »
Still others choose to leave the B.S.(i.E.: qUIT THEIR JOBS, EVEN IF WE DID HAVE TO PAY $3000. FOR BREAKING OUR CONTRACTS") BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T FIX the problems AND DIDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT.

We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

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o the desperatevparents who are shelling out all this money to therapeutic baording schools really like being kept in the dark and fed a bunch of crap like mushrooms? Are they aware of the fact that, as one of my former student\'s (Tom L.)said \"This schoo

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2005, 08:34:00 PM »
Contract? Talk about that. It's not often that I hear of employers requiring employees to sign a contract. I assume this must have something to do with keeping counselors/staff there for the duration of a peer group or for the school year?
What a day it is when an employee has to PAY the employer in order to leave. Only in the industry.
But, it does seem that if they broke any agreements with you or misrepresented the situation or job in any way, then you shouldn't be obligated to uphold your contract.
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Offline Lynn m

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« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2005, 08:46:00 PM »
The restrictions kids DO NOT sit outside on the wall and eat their "bread and water", they eat inside the lodge just like everyone else except earlier so as not to continue to disrupt the advancement of the students who are trying to better themselves if not only for their parents but to have a better experience in school.
And yes, RobertBruce, when there are large planned visits, consultants, grandparents day, etc the campus is cleaned up moreso and some of the students who would like to cause as much trouble as possible are sent to do other things, you wouldn't leave your dirty laundry out when you had visitors.  As for the "lie" what i said is listed in the quotes below, and you have jarbeled it up into one big generalization.

anonymous - "OH and as for "if, as a parent you visited the school and everything seemed decent, it's because you're there. The school is very different whenever parents are there. They usually take all of the kids who are on restrictions and send them off into the woods with one water bottle each and a little bagged lunch. The rest of the students are assigned to partake in designated activities all over campus for the day."

me - TOTALLY UNTRUE! there are parents and other visitors that come to the school at all different days and times of day. they look at the school, the grounds, the cafeteria, the infirmary, the gym and even experience the cafeteria during meal times...unannounced!! the staff and students do no know when they are having tours. the only time the school does the special visit days where activities are planned are days like grandparents day so that other family members can see that the school is not a lock down or basement facility! the thought that everyone's days could be disrupted to "put on some kind of act" is again a silly statement"

If calling me a liar makes you feel justified then so be it, but if you read the above statement from anon. and then me you will see it explained both ways.
so sorry to prove you wrong, i have read your comments and have come to the conclusion that you truly dislike that.
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