We are not alone!

[GregFL]

I hope it is with the cock's consent.

 :grin:


Anyway, no they are not liars or drunk(but def they are mexicans). I believe they do not understand what they saw and no one has stepped forward yet with a rational analysis of the lights. It has been determined that the infared views (much different than a regular camera) had an in affect phenom happening that repeated a light over and over. Also, the camera was pointed straight down and the lights moved at the same speed as the airplane. There happens many times when a camera is fixed on a fixed object from a moving object.

In other words, we don't know Yet what happened.

[Anonymous]

http://cknell.tripod.com/unexplained/grandcanyon.html

[Anonymous]

http://ufocasebook.com/102303.html

[Anonymous]

I know little of this story, but a quick perusal of it indicates the following. The Website claims this..". What are clearly rock carvings with distinctly Egyptian hieroglyphs on them have been discovered in several areas of the Grand Canyon."

Smithsonian comments..."In 1998 ...: "We know of no credible evidence that supports the discovery of ancient Egyptian artifacts or hieroglyphs anywhere in the Americas."



And of the picture of the "hieroglyphs ...

Richard Pulley wrote us about this object with a great explanation:
"Here's a quick comment regarding your trip to the Grand Canyon, xploring for the lost city. I'd read of this before, and it's great to see someone checking this out. However, you might want to reconsider the interpretations for some of your captioned photos. Photo #9 ("As we wandered the high walls...")and photo #10 ("A closer examination...") both portray fossils of naturally occurring animals, not human artifacts. The spiral and the pin are each a different type of cephalapod, a distant living relative of which is the chambered nautilus. As a geologist, I can say this with confidence from just a viewing of the posted phots. Please note that this says nothing about the city at all, one way or the other. The appropriate formations of the Grand Canyon are full of these fossils, and would be no matter whether or not an 'ancient' city happens to be co-located there."

In other words, it appears people not trained in archeology are interpreting things in a manner that is not consistent with facts.  No surprise here...some people are always jumping to superfantastical conclusions about things they don't understand. A more reasoned approach is in order.

[Anonymous]

and your second link...I just don't have time to research it right now, but there are a miriad of stories like this. The problems with it are there if you wish to look for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Look very closely at the Egyptian hieroglyphs on the bottom of Grand Canyon story/link.

 http://cknell.tripod.com/unexplained/grandcanyon.html

What does it look like to you?  

It's just very odd,

[GregFL]

Yes it is odd.. That doesn't mean it is not explainable. Enter the biologists proclaiming those are fossils not heiroglyphics.

This is the cruxt of this whole debate. People extrapolate fantastical stories around things they don't understand. Very often alternative explanations exist that while not quite as fun, are much more reasonable and grounded in logical thinking. This is the whole reason for the scientific method, to verify by peer review claims of a scientific nature. This is the commonality of all these outrageous stories, no peer review and the ignoring of all evidence pointing away from their superfantastical claims.

[GregFL]

On 2004-06-10 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:



What does it look like to you?  



It's just very odd, "

I am not qualified to comment on heiroglyphics. I do know that artifacts are forged all the time. I have doubts egyptians were in the Grand Canyon but would find it extremely interesting if this was ever confirmed by real archeologists and then peer reviewed and confirmed.

Nothing remotely resembling this has occured.

[Antigen]

What if it happened the other way around? Some fairly recently discovered tombs in the high mountains in Western So. America suggest fairly advanced civilization dating back tens of thousands of years. What if the Egyptians are the immigrants, having perhaps survived the impact of that rock that punched the Gulf of Mexico out of what is now the SE US?

Scientists don't really know all that most people think they do. Much of what we're taught as hard fact turns out to be baloney. Remember when polution was supposed to bring about another ice age? So now it's global warming? So quick? Didn't anyone else notice the flip-flop?

There's a lot we don't know.

First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0826400035/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Gandhi

[GregFL]

Yes there is a lot we don't know.  Even more reason jumping to wild conclusions about things we don't understand makes no sense whatsoever. Further, when people do so almost always they are shown to be wrong.


Now your example about pollution above actually tends to show the beauty of the scientific method because it is self correcting with new information. Science has built in correctional systems that allow for theories to be challenged and proven false. Yes, again you are so correct, we have only scratched the surface for potential scientific knowledge.

[Anonymous]

On Bill Knells home page there is a guy with a mohawk playing a horn or smoking a bong.  I have seen that figure several places in New Mexico.  Anyone know what it is or what it means.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-06-10 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Look very closely at the Egyptian hieroglyphs on the bottom of Grand Canyon story/link.



 http://cknell.tripod.com/unexplained/grandcanyon.html



What does it look like to you?  



It's just very odd, "

the figure is on this link

[Antigen]

On 2004-06-10 14:28:00, GregFL wrote:

 Even more reason jumping to wild conclusions about things we don't understand makes no sense whatsoever.

I think speculating is just fine. So long as we bear in mind that we really can't be 100% sure of a lot of things. The Lutheran type philosophies I learned growing up expressed it as a rejection of manifest destiny. Or, in other words, the ends can never justify imoral means because only God knows for sure how anything will turn out, and he's not talking, except maybe to the pscizophrenics.

I think the problem comes in when we try to justify coercion w/ what we think we know as facts. Compulsory school attendance, which has been enforced at gun point often enough in our history, is a good example of how not to do it. The idea goes that we must send our kids to school so that they can learn all the facts and skills they'll need. But the schools teach them all kinds of untruths and philosophies that are offensive to many of the parents. It's not just DARE and Narconon, either. My kid's ecconomics book opened w/ a chapter on how every American's primary contribution to society was to be a good, overly indulgant, utterly spoiled consumer. So sure are the Copybook Authors of what every kid should be taught that they compel the rest of us to pay them to teach it and seek make escape at least inconvenient.

The legislature is to society as a physician is to the patient. If a physician ignored side effects of medications like today's legislators ignore the side effects of their legislation, the physician would be accused of malpractice. I accuse today's legislators (with rare exception) of legislative malpractice. Many of the ills that are so obvious in our society are a direct result of previous legislation. Their solution? More laws!
-- John A. Bennett, DO

[GregFL]

Yes but I think the discussion here is more about a cultural clash between two ways of thinking...credulous and incredulous.

credulous thinking is what causes society at large to accept things without question. Space aliens exist, for example. People can predict the future...telekensis...faith healers.  These things are accepted as real by many people with nothing but anecedotal evidence.

Or take it a step further. The drug war..people accept it when all evidence points to its failure. Why? because they are told it is true and point to its hooky evidence of sucess. Or even on a more personal note...Locking kids up in thought reform works...why..well we have been told drugs are bad and these programs have a 90% success rate and just look at little johnnie over there..he certainly is better after his little stint in wilderness camp, isn't he?

Where is the demand for evidence? The demand for valid statistics? Why the rejection of the evidence to the contrary? Does believing in the program make the public feel good at large? Does the drug war make them feel safer? (and why do many people that use/used drugs support prohibition?). It is because we are lemmings and believe the bullshit we are told to believe, and then our society feeds on our belief.

I contend it is all a part of the same credulous thought process, and it is seemingly innocuous to most people and very destructive upon further examination.

Critical thinking and skeptical analysis will set you free.

[GregFL]

I looked RY and didn't see the figure. Even if I had I really don't know how to interpret such things correctly. we got an archeologist with us?