Check this out

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-27 19:21:00, warriorprincess wrote:

"here's a couple more



christopher landre, 16

paradise cove



corey william murphy, 17

spring creek lodge



"

Christopher came home, was not able to graduate due to fiances. He committed suicide at home.  see http://www.cslandre.org

Corey never woke up from something that someone put in his drink while at a party.

Please be clear on what you say as a death at a wwasp program.  Very sad situations, but did not happen because of the program or while in the program.

[Anonymous]

KIWI wrote: "She was a drug addict and still suffering withdrawal"

REALLY???...where did you find this...on the internet???

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-02-28 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:


Christopher came home, was not able to graduate due to fiances. He committed suicide at home.  see http://www.cslandre.org




Please be clear on what you say as a death at a wwasp program.  Very sad situations, but did not happen because of the program or while in the program.    "

If he was in a WWASP program, I'm sure they NEVER told him that if he didn't complete the program he would be DEADINSANEORINJAIL.  :roll:  :roll:  Don't be so sure his suicide was NOT a result of 'the program'.

I am sick unto death of obscure English towns that exist seemingly for the sole accommodation of these so-called limerick writers -- and even sicker of their residents, all of whom suffer from physical deformities and spend their time dismembering relatives at fancy dress balls.
--Editor of the Limerick Times
(Limerick, Ireland)

[Dr Fucktard]

Waaaaa, waaaa, waaaa..  :cry2:

[Anonymous]

CAY:  From my recollection, the program staff did not say deadinsaneorinjail.  I remember them asking what do you (the kid) think would have happened if you continued to make the choices you were making.  

As far as Christopher Landre, case in point: He wasn't able to complete the program, there was no effective help where he lived and he left the pain of his life.  Would he still be alive had he been able to complete and graduate?  We'll never know.

[Kiwi]

Christopher came home, was not able to graduate due to fiances. He committed suicide at home. see http://www.cslandre.org

True, but if he was suicidal I doubt his stay at Paradise Cove can have helped.

Corey never woke up from something that someone put in his drink while at a party.

Please be clear on what you say as a death at a wwasp program. Very sad situations, but did not happen because of the program or while in the program.

Wrong!  You are thinking of Adam Wolfe.  Corey Murphy was driven to suicide by his program parent.  He was at home but still very much "in the Program".

KIWI wrote: "She was a drug addict and still suffering withdrawal

REALLY???...where did you find this...on the internet???"

Probably, I don't remember where I read it.

There was one inaccuracy in my last post: Valerie died of head injuries, not a broken neck.


[ This Message was edited by: Kiwi on 2004-03-01 02:17 ]

[Anonymous]

I guess if you read it on a forum that does a bit of wwasp bashing, it must be true.  

It may be more informative to show links to what really happened, than to write something you can't even remember where you read it.  

Basically, you are saying Corey Murphey's parents killed him.  What kind of person are you?

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-01 21:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I guess if you read it on a forum that does a bit of wwasp bashing, it must be true.  



It may be more informative to show links to what really happened, than to write something you can't even remember where you read it.  



Basically, you are saying Corey Murphey's parents killed him.  What kind of person are you?  "

Basically, you are saying that it is unthinkable to EVER blame the parents when a teen commits suicide.

What kind of person does that make YOU?

Go see Dead Poets' Society---it's a movie, but we've all known parents like that.  Also, the parents are the people with the power to get effective treatment for mental illness in their teen, or not.

When you have a teen dead of suicide, the question needs to be asked.

It needs to be asked not to punish the grieving parents, but for the rest of society to build an accurate picture of what we need to do to do a better job of protecting, identifying, and treating mentally ill teens.

[Kiwi]

I guess if you read it on a forum that does a bit of wwasp bashing, it must be true.

If you mean here, no it wasn't.  It would have been easy to find if it had been.  It was a newspaper article if I remember correctly.

Anyway, if you are such a fan of WWASP what are you doing hanging round a "forum that does a bit of wwasp bashing"?

It may be more informative to show links to what really happened, than to write something you can't even remember where you read it.

Yes, it would have.  Someone asked a question and I told him/her what I could remember off the top of my head.  I thought he/she might find it helpful.  I'm sorry if I didn't spend hours doing in-depth research and produce a sheaf of references (you will have to ask Deborah for that) but I do have other things to do in my life.

BTW, the reference I couldn't remember related to Valerie Herron.  Corey Murphy's death is pretty well documented.  The best link has already been referenced in this forum recently (no, I don't know exactly where and I'm not going to waste my time looking).  Here it is:

http://http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/desperate/site-desperate/0702desp1.shtml

Basically, you are saying Corey Murphey's parents killed him.

Yes, in effect.

What kind of person are you?

A better person than his mother.

[Anonymous]

Not believing anything that I read in the newspapers about this industry, this one had some points to consider.

Corey was continually breaking the house rules and that wasn't okay with mom.  She didn't seem to ask much, just to not use drugs or alcohol.  Mom didn't lower her standards to allow her son to do this under her values/rules.  

Since his suicide occurred right after using drugs and/or alcohol, he may not have been thinking clearly.  Mom was trying to stop her son, but it didn't help, his life ended.

She may have done everything right, but Corey had other things, his "demons" that continued to run his life that no one but Corey could have worked through.  I tend to agree that Corey wanted to go back to the program he had been in to work through those issues.

Not knowing the mom, she may have had control issues, maybe not, but I know many parents that are controllers and their kids don't commit suicide.  

I don't believe he committed suicide because of his mother.

[Anonymous]

A lot of people with depression or bipolar disorder tend to try to self-medicate with drugs, sex, or alcohol.  Even if this Corey kid was using, *if* his mother was failing to get him in to see a psychiatrist and keep him on appropriate psychiatric medication for whatever it was he had, I would blame the parent for negligence in taking him in for necessary medical treatment.

*If*, OTOH, mom was doing her level best to get him to psychiatric appointments and try to keep him on whatever meds the doctor prescribed for his mental problems and they just couldn't get his meds right, or couldn't get him to stop using illicit drugs, or he wasn't responding well to the psychiatrist's best attempts to properly treat his condition, then it wasn't the parent's fault, it was just one of those terrible tragedies.

You can't save everybody, unfortunately.

Whether the mother is to blame or not, as far as I'm concerned, boils down to that---whether there was or wasn't negligence in getting the child necessary medical care.

The parents who try to kid themselves that their seriously mentally ill child can be treated with prayer and discipline, or love, or citrus, or vitamins, or whatever their favorite alternative treatment is are every bit as bad as the Scientologists who will let their kids die rather than have a diptheria shot or a blood transfusion.

But with the major mental illnesses, not every patient responds well to medication, and sometimes you have tragedies no matter what you do.

Without more information, I've no idea which category Corey's death belongs in.

[Timoclea]

Sorry, that was me.  I keep forgetting to log in.

In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller

[Anonymous]

Parents are responsible for one thing.  To make sure that their children learn how to deal with life's issues in a healthy manner.  The problem is that most parents don't know how to deal with life's issues in a healthy manner.  Can you blame a parent for not teaching what they were never taught?  Who is responsible for teaching the basics of living a healthy life?  Teaching must begin from day one of a child's life, so it can't be put on the schools.  
Sadly, this parent must admit failure at teaching this young person how to handle problems in a healthy manner.  There may be other failures as well.  Did the child need to make the ultimate statement of control?  Parents who TRY to control their children will always fail.
It is our destiny as a speicies to procreate, and, therefore, we will.  It is our society that will determine what value to place on the children we bring into the world.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-02-28 01:56:00, Kiwi wrote:

"

For those who don't know, what are the facts about this death? Accident, Suicide? How long had the child been in the program? Any legal updates?

Valerie Ann Herron (or Heron - spellings vary) jumped from a balcony and broke her neck.  She was a drug addict and still suffering withdrawal.  She had been there only one day.  Jay Kay likes to maintain that she was probably trying to escape but, as I understand it, TB doesn't even have much of a fence around it so why the need to jump from a balcony?  Looks like suicide to me.



Unlike Corey Murphy and Chris Landre she does not, as far as I am aware, have a WWASP scholarship fund named after her suggesting that her parents were not overimpressed with WWASP.  I have heard of no court case or rumpus from the parents either so they probably settled out of court with the usual gagging clause."

Where can I find news articles on this death?