Teen Help Programs

[MORSEGLASS]

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? YOU LIAR OF A CHILD TOLD YOU? AND NO THEY CANT NOT SPEAK TO OTHER LOWER LEVELS, UNLESS THEY WANT A CAT!!!! AND I THINK ALL STUDENTS OR GRADS WILL TELL YOU THEY DIDNT WANT TO GO TO O.P!!!

[MORSEGLASS]

DIDNT YOU SEE THE EDUCATIONAL PITCH???  THOUGHT SOO

[Anonymous]

Spots,

I suggest that you continue writing and sending letters to your grandaughter regularly. Also keep a copy of each to give her when she gets home. It will mean a lot to her that she wasn't forgotten and that you never gave up on communicating with her. In every letter remind her that she still has a family to come home to. She may need to know that to help her make a decision about leaving at 18. You never know, as incompetent as these people are, they may accidently give her a couple of your letters.

[Anonymous]

Morseglasss, I was also told that my child would catch up and possibly graduate h.s. early. What a joke, in 18 months he got 4.5 credits. Several of those months he was only allowed to take two classes, Science and Algebra, for 6 hours and day, 6 days a week.

[MORSEGLASS]

Didnt we ask you who you are? a number of times?  :grin:

[MORSEGLASS]

I know what you mean, well their educational bit, was a joke, i talked to ken kay, He told me that he never promised an education!!  well that is funny i received an educational loan :lol:

[Carey]

"Uncle Buck" is Litchfield.  That is the name he has given himself.  If you believe in WWASP, you believe in Litchfield.

What is my story.  I had twin boys at Dundee.  They were placed there by their father.  I went to Dundee and removed them from the program because of the fact that they were not willing to provide me with information on their employees.  I wanted to have criminal background checks, amongst other things done, in order to be sure my boys were safe.  I knew they were operating under the regulations of any governmental agencies and I felt there was a high risk of abuse of power in a situation such as the one at Dundee. I did not want to just rely on the "blind faith" that Dundee wanted me to rely on.

Also, I had talked with the mother of a child who was raped and assaulted at Dundee. This child was not taken immediately to the hospital and as a result she almost died.  This mother felt like what happened to her daughter was an isolated incident. Who wants to sit back and hope she is correct about that.  I didn't.  Like I already said, I think the risk in a place like Dundee is far to great.  I do not beleive in the idealolgy that you put a child's life at risk to save their life.  It just doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anon wrote:
>>You and others are speaking from very little or no "real" experience.

That is such an arrogant thing to say. Given the short time you've been here, how could you possibly "know" that. Most of the people who have responded to you have had direct experience with WWASP or similar programs.

>>I know that after all this time of being home he would have told me of abuse, starvation, and all the other horrors I'm reading here?

Not necessarily. My ex incarcerated our son. He tells his dad nothing about what happened because he knows that dad is not interested or receptive. He tells me.  Our older son tells him nothing either. His dad refuses to read the psych evaluation that was required for our lawsuit. It depends on the relationship you have with your child. They both know his limitations and try to have the best relationship possible given those limitations.

Kids don't talk to people that don't trust and certainly not to those who have the power to send them away again if they say the "wrong" thing. You might hear all about it when your son reaches adulthood and feels some autonomy, when he's free from your power over him. He may be one of those who were scared ****less by the program, and remains quiet to avoid being sent back for a follow up visit.

>>I'm not stupid or blind as you and others say. If he told me today he had been abused I would believe him. I would NOT call him a liar and throw him out of the house.

You contradict yourself. On the one hand you criticize parents who are listening to their children who say they were abused. You bash the "lying, defiant teens", stating that you can't believe anything they say. My son wasn't a liar before he went. He learned quickly how to lie and how to assess what the adults around him NEEDED to hear, in order to avoid abuse. The first few months were hell for him. He couldn't figure it out. In group the "counselor" asked what was up. He expressed concerned about what his older brother was going through at the time. She called him a liar and put him on restriction (no social time, work detail, limit calories) until he was willing to "tell the truth". So...he made up a lie... which she accepted as the truth. My son is pretty much on the ball. I can only imagine how this must confuse and ****up the weaker minded kids. That doesn't resemble any form of therapy I am aware of. That is training in "how to think the way I think".


>>Each person has a right to their opinions, whether I agree or not.

Gee, that's very generous of you. Who do you think you are anyway? Of course everyone has a right to their opinions.


>>There are no guarantees of 100% safety ANYWHERE.

That's right. You could walk outside tomorrow and be run down by a truck. But, no form of "therapy" should include the risk of death or complete and total isolation from family members and the world. Felons have more contact with loved ones than program participants, more rights, as I understand. I find your comments to a grieving grandmother extemely insulting and insensative. I imagine because she is not speaking your, "punish the teen and let the parent off the hook" language.

>>Are WWASP schools for everyone? Nope - Only for those who are committed to positive and lasting change.

How long has your son been home? Isn't it a little early to be making that statement? I've read lots of posts at StrugglingTeens in which parents are moaning because their child is home and back to the same ol, same ol. All that money for nothing. How about the ex WWASPer on death row (was it?)  And the one recently in the news for helping his girlfried stage her own abduction. Now that's positive and lasting for ya. Before you can make that statement, you should interview every teen who ever attended WWASP and see where they are today. No independent study has been conducted. All anyone has to go on is the word of the program.

>>Denial? Kool-Aid? Give me a REAL and substantiated case of abuse and I'll listen, yes, I will listen. I took off the rose-colored glasses a long time ago. Who's really in denial here?

I don't think you will listen. Because any report of abuse will come from one of those "lying, defiant teens" that you so dispise. Or from one of those "toxic parents or grandparents". Or from one of those "disgruntled ex-employees".  Or from one of those "uncredible journalist". You will never listen. Your mind is blocked. You need to feel good about your choice. I imagine you would like it if everyone supported the decision you made for your son, and the dispicable program you chose for him. The fact that there are those who do have "their own opinion" which is different than your own, you feel you must viscously defend yourself. Even two years after your son is home. If you are happy with your choice, then go be happy about it. Why do you continue to defend it? Aren't there some message boards where parents seek the kind of information and support you have to give? And about the way you found this board? Did you get a kick back for referring your friend? Guess it was kind of a blow when she stumbled across some different "opinions" than your own. Do you not trust her, or others to make their own decisions after reviewing all the available information and "opinions". I think you are a control freak.

My older son acquired PTSD after a 6 mo program. When he got home he moved into substance abuse. When he hit bottom- 2 DWIs and no job, he agreed to go to a rehab. Anticipating this, I had done extensive research and found a program to be the best available and certainly better than anything the courts would order. He was there 9 months for the cost of a traditional 30 day rehab. I really support this program, but I don't go around searching out those with different "opinions" about it. Come to think of it, there are no negative opinions, because they treat participants with respect. You can "help" people without abusing them. What a concept...one I'm sure you wouldn't understand.
Deborah

[Anonymous]

What's this reference to Kool Aid about?  Is that what the kids drink or some kind of analogy to Jones Town?

 :wave:

[Antigen]

On 2003-06-26 07:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

>>I'm not stupid or blind as you and others say. If he told me today he had been abused I would believe him. I would NOT call him a liar and throw him out of the house.

I split Straight from 5th (highest) phase, pretraining for staff.

Let me tell you a few things about how it went between me and my parents over the course of the following months.

My mother brought a couple of other program parents and tried to kidnap me from my bed in my brother's home. That failed because I called the police and, in Georgia, 17 is the default age of emancipation for most purposes. I didn't know that when I made the call. I just figured I could slug the cop and force an arrest if I had to and that would be far better than getting dragged back to group as a splitee.

About a week or two later, my dad came to visit. While he was there, I went out to time my walk to the bus stop to make sure I'd be on time for the job I was starting the next day. He took the oportunity to call the cops and lie to them to try and get me arrested (said I was in a store with no money and prone to shoplifting; none of which was true).

Another couple of weeks passed without incident, then a couple of Dekalb County detectives came to the door one evening with an arrest warrant. It seems I was being extradited by the State of Florida for the 'crime' of being a runaway. After a few weeks in juvenile detention in Ga, followed by a few more weeks in a group home in Fl, I went to court and convinced the judge to allow me to return to Ga for the holidays.

While all this is going on, the papers are reporting almost daily on all kinds of abusive incidents that happened in the Program all the time. Many of the witnesses who were giving statements to the DA and interviews to the papers were personal friends of my parents from the Program. They knew each and every one of them.

So, finally, I turn 18 and decide to give it one more try living at home since my parents can no longer force me into the program. I told them quite a bit about all the messed up things that happened in there in the couple of weeks between my arrival back home and the day they told me to either sign myself into another program or leave.

Some months later, back in Pompano where Dad and I had both gone seperately after my ultimatum and his being fed up with my mom, Dad and I had a talk about the program. To my utter amazement, he asked "Why didn't you ever tell me any of this before, when it was going on." Rather than point out the dozens of times and ways I'd tried to tell him, I just said "You wouldn't have believed me, you would have turned me in." He knew that was true and never brought it up ever again. We both lived hapily ever after. I did't need the apology, but it sure was nice to hear!

The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
--William Safire

[Antigen]

On 2003-06-26 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's this reference to Kool Aid about?  Is that what the kids drink or some kind of analogy to Jones Town?



 :wave: "

It's Jones Town.

The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.
--John Gilmour

[Anonymous]

No contradiction - If my son tells me NOW, after being home for over two years that he had been abused I would believe him.  He trusts me, I trust him.  We don't always agree, but that's life. He told me he was being abused and starving when he first arrived and I didn't believe him, though I did go and check it out in person.  I had to BE clear on this as a responsible parent.  I watched him while he ate barbeque ribs, salad, green beans and rice.  Good food and plenty of it. No starvation there.  I came unannounced and was welcomed.  No secrecy there. I saw what you say is the OP room, though they call it something different at his school.  Door was open, the kid in there smiled at me - no biggie - no different than being sent to your room for a time out except the smile.  As for his allegations of abuse, didn't happen - no point in telling you what I did to confirm this..it was not happening.  

I am not familiar with other schools, Straight, CEDU, Elan, etc., so I have no experience of them. I am telling my truth, my first hand knowledge, nothing more.  

Carey - you made it sound like a "child/student" was molested at Dundee - that's not what happened, and you know it. What happened is why Amberly Knight is no longer the Director in my opinion. I don't believe the newspaper quotes on what Ken Kay said either ---her wanting to find a boyfriend, etc. I'd also be interested to hear how your husband admitted your boys without your knowledge.   Wouldn't BEING with your family and growing and having fun together be more important than getting revenge against your ex-husband?

This board does it's job.  If I were a parent looking for help I wouldn't send my kid to WWASP after reading the hatred here- too bad, it's the best in helping the whole family from my extensive experience.  Nothing is perfect, but it was perfect for us.   But of course, no parent should ever send their kid away, whether it be a week long girl scout camp against their will, private school or a specialty boarding school for troubled teens in your opinions.  My mom sent me to a girl scout camp - kicking and screaming - when I didn't want to go, and I ended up having a wonderful experience, despite the mosquitos, bugs and snakes (and the rice and beans!) I know, that's different...  

Antigen - I am so sorry your experience at Straight was the way it was.  I guess I would have begun a sounding board too.  You have a vision and a passion for what you are doing.  So many people don't.  I don't agree with it, but that's not my place.

P.S. - ALL my son's credits transferred.He graduated high school recently and has enrolled in a midwestern university to be an electrical engineer this fall.  This would not have happened without my intervention and his commitment to himself as he had already stopped going to high school.   A lot of the kids won't do their school work in the beginning - but that's not the main reason they're there anyway.  If Morseglass admitted his kid for academics only, I would question why??  Blame is such a useless waste of energy.  Sounds like there was more than academic problems involved here.

I've enjoyed the interaction here - whatever will be will be - with or without me.

[Carey]

First of all, you need to give us your name. Let us check out how involved you are with WWASP. Your
creditabilty is lost when you are not willing to make available your identity. I do not hide behind the "anon".

"Carey - you made it sound like a "child/student" was molested at Dundee - that's not what happened, and you know it."

Anon, I'll tell you what. When I get home this evening I will cut and paste the email from the mother on this site so that you can read it yourself. I have saved the email for court. She will have to admit it happened or  else come up with some great explanation as to why she said it did when it didn't. I will give you the information you need so that you can call her and talk to her yourself. Of course she works for WWASP and has forgiven them for almost letting her daughter die. She is like you, blinded by stupidity. Also, the victim, her daughter, will probably have to be supeoned into court to tell it under oath, since her own mother and WWASP won't admit to it and let her name stay anonoymous.

"What happened is why Amberly Knight is no longer the Director in my opinion."

What story have you been told about Amberly?

 "I don't believe the newspaper quotes on what Ken Kay said either ---her wanting to find a boyfriend, etc."

Are you saying you don't beleive the newspaper quoted him correctly, or are you saying that you don't believe what Ken Kay said?

"I'd also be interested to hear how your husband admitted your boys without your knowledge."

 My husband lived in Brazil. The boys were living with him. He sent them from there to Costa Rica. They would call me often, sometimes twice a week, from Brazil. All of a sudden, I stopped getting their phone calls. I started asking questions and eventually my ex told me via my daughter where they were. Ask Mr. Kay to provide the enrollment agreement in which I did not sign. He cant provide one in which I did sign because there is not one. I did not know about them being place at Dundee until after the fact. I have saved all of the emails that I sent to the school once I found out where they were to tell them I was not in agreement with their placement there.

"Wouldn't BEING with your family and growing and having fun together be more important than getting
revenge against your ex-husband?"

First of all, how is this revenge against my ex husband? My fighting against the abuse that occured at Dundee is not against my ex husband, it is against Dundee. Second, are you watching me? How do you know what I am or what I am not doing? I am with my family. We are together. My other two children and myself are helping the boys come to terms with the terrible experience they had while at Dundee.



[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-06-26 14:13 ]

[FaceKhan]

Barbecue ribs? Yeah I believe that about as much as I believe that Yaweh and President Bush have a close personal relationship.

The food deprivation aspect of WWASP and the lack of quality and sanitary conditions at WWASP facilities is probably the most documented and irrefutable aspect of WWASP's abuse. Kids coming home 30-50 pounds underweight with vitamin deficiencies, scurvy, jaundice, and acute malnutrition. That is hardly a subjective opinion or a manipulative lie by disobediant children, it is a scientific fact documented by physicians who have treated former inmates of wwasp facilities.

Go ahead and send you kid to a used car salesman, and then expect him to be honest about his experience. Why in the world would he tell you what you don't want to hear when he could very easily be sent back or cut off financially.

[Anonymous]

Anon - you did not see the OP room. In OP, or whatever it is called, the student keeps their face to the floor or the wall. They are not allowed to look around, or smile.
If this kid did, soon as you were safely gone, he paid for it.
Maybe he was still green, and didn't realize what price he would pay. Or maybe he was one of the rare kids who took all the hell they could dish out and still laughed at them.
And about the BarBQ - no way Jack. If it was BarBQ, I bet it wasn't any cut of meat you'd eat. When you come on here telling these stories you make yourself sound like a fool or a liar. People here know better. I've never spoken with any student that didn't describe either tasteless gruel, or disgusting swill, or beans and rice, as the predominant meal served. Thin cheeze sandwhiches get mentioned now and then. As dose Mold, and bugs, and skin and bone shards.
Maybe knowing you were there, they fed the kids their own food for that one meal. They could always get pizza for themselves. Just trying to think of a way to believe you aren?t' lying threw your teeth - but actually, I think thats more likely.
And I gather you bought the load of crap they fed you about Amberly. Look, just use your common sence - Do you really think Amberly had the ability to hire and keep on staff anyone the OWNER wanted gone??
Those idiots have been slandering Amberly since she first resigned; and all to cover their own asses. Whats remarkable about it, is the way all the Program parents just accept their goofy and transparent lies as true - just because they said so - and obviously never actually THINK about it! It reminds me of star wars; Let me see that bag - You don't want to look in that bag - No - I don't want to look in that bag.
Again, use your common sense. Look at motive. Look at gain. What could Amberly gain from lying about the situation? Not a dam thing. She really stuck her neck out, put herself at personal and financial risk; all to try and help the lied to and manipulated parents. Her actions have been brave and completely selfless. Now what about the good ole boys back at Dundee? Do they have motive to lie? Yes, they do. Lots of motive. If they want to continue business as usual, they have no choice but to lie, lie, lie. Its simply what they do.
And anyone who wants to defend them, has to do the same.
About the molestation argument you and Carey are having - there is some confussion, but it did happen. It wasn't a student tho - it was a young staff member; who was assulted and raped by another young staff member - who Narvin hired because they work so cheep.
And you thinking Amberly was in any way at fault here is a result of your falling for the slander.
I know. I was aquainted with this situation when it happened - all the request for prayer - the Mom posting how greatful she was for Amberly's help and concern. Amberly had given notice and left for the weekend just before this happened - she returned for no other reason than to be of help to the mom and daughter threw out the ordeal.
It was just conveinent for the boys back at the ranch, that she had given notice and resigned - as it gave them a scapgoat.
This isn't the first time in history, a good and brave soul suffered threw liabelous slander from selfish, greedy bastards. Matter of fact - it happens every day - and its what happen to Amberly.
You only know what a pack of lying, selfabsorbed crude and brutal 'business men' have told you.
You might do well to consider the sorce.