Author Topic: Are Nazi's now Holocost survivors too??? Ex Staff stop comp  (Read 3842 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Are Nazi's now Holocost survivors too??? Ex Staff stop comp
« on: April 22, 2004, 02:51:00 PM »
I dont know, it really may bust be me, but im am sick and tired of staff whining and complaining on this site that they were the victoms of CEDU.  The only thing i could even think of comparing this too is a Nazi saying they were the true victoms of the holocost.
I attended Ascent and two of the CEDU schools in north idaho, and can tell you there was not one staff member besides mike bonner (maybe mike hampton) that seemed to have truely good hearts.  However i then come onto sites like this years later and hear the whining of the ex staff members.  
I for one do not feel bad for any of you.  you were the people who made CEDU bad.  you were the people who verbally bashed and harassed the kids.  you were the people that restrained me at ascent for 6hrs because i admited to looking over in the direction of a girl...oh otter i mean, i dont wanna get restrained for saying girl too.  
It truely makes me sick to my stomach to sit here now and read your sobb stories about how you too where under terrible abuse there, it was a career, and your career decision was to stay there and look on.  If you truely had a good heart, go to the police department, file a complaint, and if your life is really run by cedu then move out of idaho.  I'm sure theres hick and kkk country for you somewhere else in the country if thats the type of town you really feel you need to live in.
Please stop posting your sad stories making you a victom.  i havent seen one story of staff filing reports of child abuse, overmedicating of children, or sever emotional damage on children.  If you are one of these staff i welcome you to post your story, i am open to hearing it, just for now i cant imagine you really being the victom of this system.
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Offline Antigen

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Are Nazi's now Holocost survivors too??? Ex Staff stop comp
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2004, 04:25:00 PM »
You don't have to like them or believe them, but it might be worth your while to sit back and see what they do and what they have to say. I tend to believe people who talk w/ their feet.


The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor

--Anatole France



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Offline Jack1963

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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2004, 04:41:00 PM »
Thanks for your post here, Ginger. The anger of some of these ex-students posting just shows me how hurt they were. They are angry at us as ex-staff. I've posted many times that I NEVER treated a kid  badly and was constantly harassed by CEDU for it. As I've posted on other pages, even those staff who bought into it were duped. Many were young and believed what CEDU taught them. It's unfair to not allow people to say that they were wrong and have remorse.

Also, the poster comparing Nazi remorse for the Holocaust to ex-staff is insulting to the millions who were slaughtered and abused by the Nazis. It is absurd. Systematic gassing, torture, and other unspeakable cruelties by Nazis could never compare with anything that CEDU ever did.

One of my concerns is that when we see inflammatory posts, it may turn inquiring people away from the posts. We want to present rational, logical arguments for our complaints against CEDU. There is nothing wrong with an impassioned argument, but ridiculous analogies won't get anyone to take seriously the argument the person is trying to make.


Quote
On 2004-04-22 13:25:00, Antigen wrote:

"You don't have to like them or believe them, but it might be worth your while to sit back and see what they do and what they have to say. I tend to believe people who talk w/ their feet.





The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor



--Anatole France





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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen

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It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you."
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ack

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2004, 05:43:00 PM »
the analogy from this person is horrible, but i do see what they are saying.  when i was there all the staff were horrible to me. i hated every day there, and was drugged to the point i could hardly even move from cedus own dr kavorkian aka george ulrich.  as i said before, this kids analogy was bad and exagerated, but as an ex cedu staff im sure you can understand extreamly overexagerating something.  i would guess youve done it a few thousand times!!!
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Offline Maximus

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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2004, 05:59:00 PM »
"The nonchalance of boys who are sure of a dinner and would distain as much as a lord to do so is a healthy state for human nature..."

"..Speak your latent conviction today though it contradicts everything you said yesterday. Ah, so you will be sure to be misunderstood. Is it so bad to be misunderstood? Every true and great spirit that ever took flesh was misunderstood. Copernicus, Galileo, Jesus and Luther were misunderstood. To be great is to be misunderstood."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

When I'm in a bad mood you will know it. When I seek peace, you will know it. It's called authenticity.

The world is too full of phony, polite, social robots that hunker down to the status quo, so as not to offend elite or tyrant sensibilities.

May they be offended greatly. May they feel dissonance - great dissonance. May they experience emotion along with all who have suffered. And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.

Etiquette and political correctness are what is wrong with the world. Evil is no better off exposed. Rather facades of good are evil

The time is past for etiquette, political correctness and all things that are squelching human dynamism and passion. The time is here for sit down strikes, blockades, nonviolent protest and further insult to the new world order.  
[ This Message was edited by: Maximus on 2004-04-22 15:00 ][ This Message was edited by: Maximus on 2004-04-22 15:02 ]
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Offline Antigen

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Are Nazi's now Holocost survivors too??? Ex Staff stop comp
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2004, 06:01:00 PM »
Ok, now I have to agree w/ the other side (lol!)

The Nazis didn't just arrive on the scene in 1945 or so and start throwing people into ovens. The Nazi movement started... aw hell, I don't feel like verifying dates. But I know they got their start sometime in the late `20's to early `30's.

Just substitute terms like "Jew" "impure races" and "undesirables" for the terms like "druggie" and "gang affiliate" in some of what passes through the pipeline on the way to Congress and you might see some legitimate paralells.

Frightening as it is, CEDU is not that big a deal all by itself. It's a part of something much bigger. In a sane world, sadistic fanatics like these would not have a market to serve or near cart blanch from the authorities.

Oh, and there were a couple of high ranking Nazis who broke down and cried on the stand at Neuremberg, begging to be put to death for what they had done and become.

Anyway, I just hope ya'll will hear eachother out.

The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2004, 06:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-04-22 14:59:00, Maximus wrote:

And suffering is not a badge of honor. Experiencing tyranny does not deserve a bow or a kiss. The honor is in removing the stumbling stone. The honor is in the impolite destruction of tyranny through honest, powerful dialogue - not etiquette. Not political correctness.


 ::bigsmilebounce::  ::drummer::  ::rocker::  ::nod::

http://fornits.com/quotes.php?maximus

 

When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
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Offline Maximus

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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2004, 06:08:00 PM »
My son will fight tyranny. He will speak out and offend if necessary, and he will survive.

It is silence, fear, and polite submission that is deadly.

This time we will not hide - we will attack.[ This Message was edited by: Maximus on 2004-04-22 15:08 ]
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Offline Maximus

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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2004, 06:11:00 PM »
Thanks Ging - "libratarian is where it's at"
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2004, 06:41:00 PM »
I can certainly understand why students reading complaints by staff against CEDU is a bit hard to swallow.  Students are exposed mostly to the counseling staff which are only a fraction of the staff.  A student's view is much narrower.  

I do feel badly for my part in it, though  I can say that I never abused anyone at CEDU, and I paid the ultimate price for trying to stop others from doing the same.  And I am not the only one who tried and lost.

We all have our own perspectives on what we experienced at CEDU, and we should all feel free to express them.  I do, however, feel that moving forward is the most important thing we can do for ourselves.  Accepting that people do change, and people do make mistakes is a part of moving forward.
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Offline Jack1963

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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »
I don't know what you mean by exaggerating a few thousand times. I'm actually very careful to not exaggerate, as when people do, they lose credibility. Everything I have posted about CEDU is factual. I want every word I speak to be believed and respected. I know what I saw. I know what I did. And I was very happy to get out of that hell hole. My only regret in leaving was that I couldn't break any kids out when I left!

Quote
On 2004-04-22 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the analogy from this person is horrible, but i do see what they are saying.  when i was there all the staff were horrible to me. i hated every day there, and was drugged to the point i could hardly even move from cedus own dr kavorkian aka george ulrich.  as i said before, this kids analogy was bad and exagerated, but as an ex cedu staff im sure you can understand extreamly overexagerating something.  i would guess youve done it a few thousand times!!!"
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Offline Hell on Wheels

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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2004, 09:12:00 PM »
[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-11 00:03 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2004, 01:32:00 AM »
Well, I got out of the biz altogether. I promise you, I wanted to help kids. Period. I saw and I left. And I know others who did, too. Now I teach parents how to talk to, LISTEN to, and love their teenagers. I've saved MANY kids from having to go to those places. I'm in these posts because I want to see CEDU go down.

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On 2004-04-22 18:12:00, Hell on Wheels wrote:

"Mein Kamf.......... That says it all, right there. It is mine, no one elses to fight, I feel differently about things than do others. Some kids that had it rougher than me might not think it had been as bad. It is all in the eye of the beholder. But I have been posting about this for the past couple of days now. I'm moving on. there is nothing else to say. I know how it feels to be bucking the status quo, I know what it feels like to have people after me. No matter what I think of the ex-staff, it does not matter. I don't have to look in their mirror, and they do not have to look in mine. There may be any common ground, and speaking for me, there will never be an apology accepted on my part. Nor will I ask forgiveness of those I have transgressed against. It was how it was and that was the way it was. Maybe in the staff's mind, they could not speak out because Bonners Ferry is such a small tight knit community, I've been there, I live in a community smaller than Bonners. But that is upon their shoulders, and quite possibly blood is on their hand also. The fact remains that many staff that I know of that left CEDU, went on to work at other schools, based loosely upon CEDU, or started their own, so they could not only play god, they could be god by controlling the financing also. For the ones that are out of the biz completely, I salute you, there are many other ways to make a living. For the therapists only, that was your way of life, it is what you went to school for, I can dig it that you still want to be a therapist. Hmmm I guess that says it all..oh wait, at least quit complaining about the horror you saw done to the kids, you don't have to tell us, we were there, bumming around in this little hole in the wall town they now call Idaho. Now I have no problem with talking about shit that went on over our heads and behind our backs, it confirms our suspicions, and opens our eyes a little more. That is good shit, taking a peek at the staff and corporate dirt lists so to speak."
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Offline Maximus

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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2004, 12:09:00 PM »
Inherent in valor is intelligence. Bravery, not spitting on the unidentifiable masses is heart.

Here are many words but little said, little intelligence, few articulators; many short sound bites; many long vomits.

The darkness learned at CEDU is falling. We learned well. The legacy goes on just as they would wish it.

Brothers damned, heroes lumped together with tyrants; bullies of hatred and fear rule the day; abused animals fodder for laughs.

Children suffer in silence as we entertain our egos.

Would these sharp tongued vipers do well without "ex staff complaining?" Yes, for themselves. And, is that not what they are about?

They drive us away. Without care for those left behind; they are bitter for their suffering, but not the suffering of others. Telling? Yes. Empathy absent, they see none of our humanity. Jews we are.

Oh to "'stop complaining." In Germany the public, the intellectuals, the businessmen, the laborors, the therapists stopped complaining and we all died for it.

You - Honerable? Truthful? Kind? Alturistic?
Your mindless venom better with out us? CEDU taught you well.

Now, go into the world and change it for the better. No, you have much work to do on yourself first.
Love?


 

  [ This Message was edited by: Maximus on 2004-04-23 09:11 ]
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2004, 03:34:00 PM »
Hell On Wheels, I hope you'll stick around or at least skim the topics from time to time. I think you probably do have a great deal of common ground w/ repentant former staff. A lot of people say they're afraid to say too much about CEDU. I believe them. But I think the most important part of the story is made up of the sort of things that are not going to draw any lawsuits or death threats.

The headline makers are all about horrible overt abuses that anyone can plainly see are wrong and illegal. The response to those is usually denial, excuses and/or distancing the corporation from the chosen scapegoat. Those kinds of headlines are one common thread in the industry. But nobody in the industry sets out to kill or disfigure the kids. I think, for the most part, they're true believers. And when you guys describe in detail the day-to-day methods they use to force their ideology on others, then we can all see some other common threads.

These are the reasons why the overt, life threatening abuses always come about under these circumstances. That's what people need to understand and, for the most part, they don't. Once you have somebody convinced that we're talking about a "bad kid" here, then the rest just washes off. They really don't give a damned what anybody does to a "bad kid", especially if the parents are for it.

So, for practical purposes, the most important issue to bring to light is the intake process. I don't know if you youngin's fully appreciate this or not, but when we were young (I'm damned near 40) and, moreso, our older brothers and sisters, the kinds of things that land kids up in trouble w/ the law and/or shipped off to reform school would have only drawn a detention or maybe some heavy labour in the back yard when we were kids! Maybe a good 2 weeks grounding and loss of allowance, but nothing like what some of you guys get for the most minor infractions. When my dad sent me off for smoking pot, he had never smoked pot and was really afraid of it.

Parents who send their kids off today for smoking pot (or for getting caught at it), they are most likely among the majority of people our age who smoked pot when they were your age.

So, if you don't mind, I'm very curious to know the personal stories of how kids land up in these places. I can infer some from the recruiting material. But there's nothing like actual history to tell a story.

Quote
On 2004-04-22 18:12:00, Hell on Wheels wrote:

 Now I have no problem with talking about shit that went on over our heads and behind our backs, it confirms our suspicions, and opens our eyes a little more. That is good shit, taking a peek at the staff and corporate dirt lists so to speak.


This is important to. I don't care so much about forgiveness and appologies. I really do tend to believe people who talk w/ their feet. Makes life real simple. But understand that CEDU is far from unique. It's very similar to the other Synanon based programs in a lot of fundamental ways. And, even when people set out w/ the best of intentions to create a kinder, gentler Program, it always seems to turn out the same way.

So maybe we can shed a little light on how that happens.

Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton    

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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