Info on Moonridge Academy or Kolob Canyon RTC?

[Anonymous]

Rest assured that there is no therapeutic value in monitoring, censoring or prohibiting communication between parent and child.  Tell the mother to wake-up from her induced coma, pick up the phone, and demand to speak to her child ASAP.

What the hell does she have to lose by insuring the safety and well-being of HER OWN CHILD??

 :flame:

[Anonymous]

Friend of Mom:  Where did Mom find this school?  Did she call them direct or was she referred by someone like a web site that refers to many different programs, or by an educational consultant.  If she was referred by an educational consultant, that person would have told her the whole scoop on no mail. Let us know how she found this place and the name of the company or educational consulting firm that took advantage of her desperation.    

Another thing I've learned is that the parent is can imagine all kinds of things unless they have a way to connect with other parents whenever they need to.  A good program will have support groups and on line chats via the school.  Does she have this support or she basically on her own.

There is usually a 30 day period that a parent can transfer to another school or bring their child home and not be locked into any contract they have signed.

[Deborah]

***If she was referred by an educational consultant, that person would have told her the whole scoop on no mail.***

Huh? What a crock. The Ed Con who refered my ex didn't know ANYTHING about the facility or it's policies and procedures. What she knew about the facility she learned from me. She refered based on the 'owner's reputation'. Give me a break. One would be wise not to depend on accurate information coming from any Ed Con.

[Kiwi]

A good program will have support groups and on line chats via the school.

Good for whom?  In what sense is it good to be influenced by peer pressure to ignore your own judgement?

[notworking]

On 2004-04-23 18:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The comments on this site have been useful - there seems to be some division along the lines of "all programs are bad for teens" and "some kids need tough love", but no one has defended no contact at all for this long of a time.  I wonder why no one has heard of this program, and I am very uneasy - but don't know if I should butt in and tell her this is very bad for her kid."

Althought I can't speak for everyone here, I can say that I don't believe that all programs are bad for teens.  I think there are a lot of excellent programs out there for kids and their families.  I just think that kids' "issues" tend to be more complex than they're just bad -- it's usually a whole family system that needs to be addressed.  You can't address the system when the child is thousands of miles away.  

Criticizing your friend's parenting choices is not going to go over well with her.  Only you know whether she'll be unhappy with you but still listen, or just stop being your friend.  However, if you really care about her child, I think you should say something.  It's possible to do it in a less confrontational manner than I (and others) have demonstrated here.  If your friend's daughter was held back in her regular school, your friend would want to know why.  It wouldn't be enough for the school to say "Well, she's just slower or more lazy than other children."  Your friend would want to know on what basis they made that decision.  

Similarly, she has every right to ask these Moonridge people what, exactly, her daughter needs to do to get to send mail/use the phone.  "Start working" is NOT a sufficient answer -- what will she do to demonstrate she's working?  What is she doing that demonstrates she's not working?  

Another concern I would have is that there may be a reason beyond "not working" that the staff does not want to let this child talk to her mother.  It's not unheard of for a child to be injured or ill and staff to a) not tell the parents because of fear of liability and b) cut off contact between the child and the parents.  

Because I forgot to say it before, I applaud you for trying to help your friend get more information than just the advertising this facility provides.  I hope that she's willing to listen to you.  Good luck.

[cherish wisdom]

This was taken from isac corp:

Warning Signs of a Potentially Abusive Behavioral Treatment Center

A Treatment Center May be Abusive if:

1.   Verbal and/or written communication between the client and family members is prohibited, restricted or monitored.

2.   The program requires the parents or client to sign a form releasing the program of liability in case of injury during treatment.

3.   The program requests/demands legal custody of juvenile clients.

4.   The program houses clients in foster homes or host homes instead of allowing them to reside with their parents.

5.   The client or parents are forbidden from discussing the daily happenings at the facility. Often this policy is called ?confidentiality.?

6.   The client is denied access to a telephone.

7.   Client phone calls are monitored.

8.   The program uses confrontational therapy.

9.   The staff includes former clients of the program.

10.   Clients are restrained or otherwise physically prevented from leaving the facility.

11.   The program claims that self-injury or cutting/carving on ones body is normal behavior for a client in treatment.

12.   Parents are not allowed to stay with their child during the entire intake/entry process.

13.   The program inflicts physical punishments on clients such as exercising, running, food restrictions, and cleaning.

14.   Reading materials are prohibited or restricted.

15.   The facility does not have a clearly visible sign outside the building stating the name of the program.

16.   Clients must submit ?chain of commands? or any other such requests for basic needs such as clothes, shoes, personal items and medical care.

17.   The program is run or staffed by persons who lack adequate experience or credentials.

18.   The program requires parents or siblings of clients to volunteer services and/or raise money for the facility.

19.   A medical doctor (MD) is not present at any time during normal operating hours.

20.   Clients of the program conduct, participate in or supervise the intake/entry process.

21.   Staff members offer to help the parents obtain a court order forcing the client into the program.

22.   Clients are observed on any level of the program, while bathing, dressing or using the toilet.

23.   The purpose of the program is to treat drug abuse, but the program does not conduct a drug screen prior to entry.

24.   The program requires clients to be strip-searched.

25.   The program does not allow clients to follow their religion of choice.

26.   Staff members must approve friends, siblings, family visits, or employment.

27.   Juvenile clients are not afforded an education in accordance with state requirements.

28.   Medication is recommended, prescribed, approved or dispensed by anyone other than a medical doctor (MD).

29.   Staff members make statements such as ?your child will die without treatment? to the parents of prospective clients.

30.   Clients escort/supervise other clients.

31.   The program lists a post office box instead of a physical street address.

32.   Clients have to ?earn? the right to speak during group sessions.

33.   Clients are denied outside activities on any level/phase.

34.   Staff must approve the withdrawal of clients from treatment.

35.   The program expects total and unquestioned support of parents.

36.   Clients on any phase/level are forbidden to speak to other clients.


ISAC will be adding to this list as necessary.

If you are a parent who is considering placing a child in a behavioral treatment facility, PLEASE protect your child. Thoroughly investigate the program and all staff members by contacting local news sources, conducting internet searches, and reviewing court and police records. Be sure to verify all licenses, certifications, and accreditations of the program.

Visit the facility BEFORE you enroll your child.

NEVER place your child in a program outside of the United States.

NEVER place your child in an unlicensed facility.

NEVER surrender custody of your child to a treatment center.

As you can see limiting communication is the number one sign of an abusive program. This person should get her child out of there. The child is in DANGER. :skull:  :skull:  :skull:

Here's freedom to him who would read;
 
Here's freedom to him who would write;

None ever feared that the truth should be heard,

But them that the truth would indict.


--author unknown (circa 1914)

[Anonymous]

As a student at Kolob i can tell you the no contact really helps because you concentrate on yourself instead of when you get to talk to your parents or your friends. And NO CONTACT with friends is the most important part. Why when you are trying to help your child would you want them to talk to their friends who they were probably out doing the drugs with or getting in trouble with??? yes i hated it while i was at Kolob but the staff was excellent and helped me through it. and dont expect your child to come home perfect bvecause even though i graduated the program when i came home i was far from perfect. but now i am happy and living a healthy lifestyle. i am 19 and have a full time job i have been clean for 6 months and i am going back to school in the fall. so in my opinion as someone who lived in kolob canyon for 6 months it changed my life for the better and i would recommend it to anyone with a teenage girl with problems

[Anonymous]

On 2004-06-09 10:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As a student at Kolob i can tell you the no contact really helps because you concentrate on yourself instead of when you get to talk to your parents or your friends. And NO CONTACT with friends is the most important part. Why when you are trying to help your child would you want them to talk to their friends who they were probably out doing the drugs with or getting in trouble with??? yes i hated it while i was at Kolob but the staff was excellent and helped me through it. and dont expect your child to come home perfect bvecause even though i graduated the program when i came home i was far from perfect. but now i am happy and living a healthy lifestyle. i am 19 and have a full time job i have been clean for 6 months and i am going back to school in the fall. so in my opinion as someone who lived in kolob canyon for 6 months it changed my life for the better and i would recommend it to anyone with a teenage girl with problems"

Okay.....I'm going to sound half-skeptical, here, but it's not personal, so I hope you'll hear me out.

I hope you'll come back when you've been out for five years or more, and *then* let's talk about what you think of the place.

For one thing, your assumption that for every kid sent their kids would "probably" be illicit drug users suggests you may have been thoroughly brainwashed---or maybe not, maybe you just haven't seen the bad parts of the industry and you're just telling your experience the way it was.

There are a whole lot of people in this world who don't use illicit drugs, and a whole lot of friends out there would be glad to step up to the local hospital and take a drug test, just to make it clear to the world that they're *not* drug abusers, and mail the test along with the letter.

If a facility that *just* treats teen drug abusers  requires a drug screen before intake---and won't accept kids being involuntarily placed who test clean---screens mail from friends the parents say are drug abusing *but* allows those friends to send mail if they get drug tested and they're clean---then I wouldn't have as much problem with that facility.

You say you're "clean"---this sounds like you're saying that you were at one time using illicit drugs.  If this is the case, and you were addicted to them, you may well have needed *good* residential treatment.

You need to understand that there are parents whose kids are *not* drug addicted who place the kid in the program because there is a new step-parent in the home and the teen and the step aren't happy under the same roof, for example.

There are other reasons parents place a teen who *doesn't* need residential treatment into a program, but that's one of the bigger ones.

And I would still be very interested in what you think of Kolob after you've been out for five years.

It may not be a bad place, but experience with programs has tended to show that people who have been in programs and had a bad experience will frequently say good things about that program up until they've been out for five years or so----so right now we don't know if you're saying Kolob was a good place because it was a good place, or if you're saying it was a good place because the brainwashing hasn't worn off yet.

We *can't* know one way or the other, at this stage.

So please do come back after five years and tell us what you think then.  Whatever your answer is then, some people may find it useful to know.

And good luck.  I'm glad you're doing well, and I hope your experience really was good and that you continue to do well.

Timoclea

[maxima24]

first off i definately wasn brainwashed. and i was there with other girls who werent there for drugs either. one girl i was close to was there for cutting and she hasnt cut in 8 months. it doesnt sound like a long time but when you cut every day for years 8 months is alot. and me ive only been off of drugs for 6 months but after using every day for four years it has been a struggle. and yea it sucked being there but it was good because god only knows where i would be if i never went. i was on the verge of dropping out of hs and getting kicked out of my house. i was stealing money from family friendsand whoever else i could i was sleeping with people for drugs and hated my life. i think it was a good place because now i have the life i deserve and know i deserve. kolob didnt fix my life but they showed me the skills i needed to take control of my life so i could "fix" it myself and i have. and no not every one is successful after a stay in an RTC and no one can make you change they can only show you what you need to do to change. so before any of you tell me i was "brainwashed" or that rtcs are bad and they abuse children why dont you talk to some kids who have been there. or talk to my parents who at one point i hated and they are now my best friends. i call my mom 3 times a day now. at one point i couldve have never seen her again and been happy. and them now they see me as their daughter and who i was meant to be and how much i can amount to. i see myself for what im worth instead of seeing myself as a waste of life.

India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman

[Anonymous]

On 2004-06-10 05:48:00, maxima24 wrote:

"first off i definately wasn brainwashed. and i was there with other girls who werent there for drugs either. one girl i was close to was there for cutting and she hasnt cut in 8 months. it doesnt sound like a long time but when you cut every day for years 8 months is alot. and me ive only been off of drugs for 6 months but after using every day for four years it has been a struggle. and yea it sucked being there but it was good because god only knows where i would be if i never went. i was on the verge of dropping out of hs and getting kicked out of my house. i was stealing money from family friendsand whoever else i could i was sleeping with people for drugs and hated my life. i think it was a good place because now i have the life i deserve and know i deserve. kolob didnt fix my life but they showed me the skills i needed to take control of my life so i could "fix" it myself and i have. and no not every one is successful after a stay in an RTC and no one can make you change they can only show you what you need to do to change. so before any of you tell me i was "brainwashed" or that rtcs are bad and they abuse children why dont you talk to some kids who have been there. or talk to my parents who at one point i hated and they are now my best friends. i call my mom 3 times a day now. at one point i couldve have never seen her again and been happy. and them now they see me as their daughter and who i was meant to be and how much i can amount to. i see myself for what im worth instead of seeing myself as a waste of life.

India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman

"

Um......I was afraid I might not have been being as clear as I'd like.

I was saying that because some *other people* have been brainwashed in RTC programs and only started talking openly after about 5 years when the PTSD kicked in and they got in real therapy and started to see things more clearly, *I* (and others) *can't know* whether or not you've been brainwashed.

See?

It's not at all the same thing as saying you have been.

Cutting is an OCD-type anxiety based behavior.  If your friend got either Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or anxiety medication, or both, then she may stay stopped on cutting.

My concern is *a lot* of former students from various BM programs have reported levels and categorized offenses and demerits and "discipline" and confrontation being used in a one-size-fits-all fashion in a lot of programs.

That, plus the brainwashing that *others* have suffered, makes it hard for us to know what to think of your experience when you're so fresh out of the facility.

I wasn't dismissing you when I said please come back in five years *I meant it*---the time delay helps us sort out people whose treatment was safe and effective from people whose treatment was brainwashing.

And it's not that your personal account isn't worth anything now.  It is.  But it will be worth *more* (to other people, like me) then, because having stood that test of time will give it more weight.

Again, understand that the waters are muddied by the parents out there who send kids off for trivial reasons (not real drug addiction or real cutting) really based on lack of harmony with a step-parent to facilities that are ethically questionable (at best) enough to actually *take* these placements and who then use the lack of contact (cut off their mail) to induce Stockholm Syndrome and mind control/brainwashing.

Not that *you* experienced that---but that the existence of that in the industry means people have to ask hard questions about residential facilities to sort the good from the bad from the sometimes good/sometimes bad.

This is one reason I want the industry to have federal regulatory oversight----to separate the good, quality, ethical treatment facilities from the bad ones.

Timoclea

[White Cracker Man]

Hi. I have been reading this board for about six months. Although I have never been to a gulag school, I know all about parents and people overreacting with kids. The previous poster suggested the girl should work out the problems that led to her placement. Well that is good and dandy, but does she really have any REAL problems? Or is it one of those I dont like her new best friends things?  Well I am about to go to bed but I will give you all a basic  recap of my childhood.  I lived in a house where there was violence all the time almost. On days when there was no violence, i would worry when the violence would start up again. Like my uncle throwing my mother down the stairs with a knife and chasing my grandmother with a knife also. So of course hving a normal reaction to all of that, I began to act up , trying to make a call for help.  So  I was immediately declared emotionally disturbed .  They also found the need to place me in Special Education. Of course that only led to me getting even more frustrated, which then led to several hospital admissions. I have to admit my situation pales in comparison to all those teens in gulag type schools. And scares the hell out of me , thinking what those poor teens are going through. I still am very much affected by my childhood.  I can only imagine how much those teens will  suffer from what they are going through.  I commend the people who are trying to  end all the torture. Well thanks for giving me this  outlet to express my thoughts.

[White Cracker Man]

Opps.  I said the  previous poster said that girl should work on her problems. I did not read all the posts and only read the first page of the thread. Upon verifying my post , I realised I would be the last post on this thread at the time I posted. Therefore , I also realised that the poster before me was not the one who said about the girl working on her problems. My apoligies to the person who posted before me.  I made a newbie mistake. lol.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-06-10 22:53:00, mikey wrote:

"Opps.  I said the  previous poster said that girl should work on her problems. I did not read all the posts and only read the first page of the thread. Upon verifying my post , I realised I would be the last post on this thread at the time I posted. Therefore , I also realised that the poster before me was not the one who said about the girl working on her problems. My apoligies to the person who posted before me.  I made a newbie mistake. lol. "

No problem.

Timoclea

[maxima24]

Why are all of you people so against RTC's? Have you ever even been in one?

Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.

[White Cracker Man]

After 6 admissions to hospitals and a foster care placement I was admitted to a RTC.  I was at Edenwald center for 16 months  1/97to 7/98.  Like i said before it was not remotly in the neighborhood of a WWASP, ASPEN,etc.  But it was hell.  Not to be judgemental , but i had nowhere near the problems that the majority of the kids there had. That is what scares me to death about all the gulag kids. If I went crazy in Edenwald Center, I can only imagine the horrors of the gulag. I also have heard stories of kids being placed in all kinds of treatment programs when there were obvious alternatives.  I think many of the stories I know personally and also have read on the web are examples of overreactingto say the very very least. Kids have normal reactions just like everyone else to adverse situations.  Little Johnny makes a few new friends, maybe breaks a few mailboxes, call the WWASPIES Now before he is dead or in jail.  LITTLE ROSA HAS SEX WITH HER BF, Christian parents call the ASPENS. Or some other god - pushing org.  In my situation , I had trouble dealing with   all the violence . Once I got into  a  foster home , I flourished for the most part. Although my foster brothers were a royal pain to say the least. So I believe that alternatives such as foster are viable options for a parent if they dont want t deal with the natural maturation of their teens or pre-teens. And they would save a 5 figure tuition also. I think that would be a win - win scenario. All parents or guardians would have to do is call the state to get their kids. I know lots of ed consulants pushed programs to my mother, even though they were paid for by medicaid. I know alot of people might think tat is a naive comment , but alot of medicaid payments can add up.  They might have pushed tHE WWASP LIKE button but my mother was dirt poor. I guess there are some benefits to being a son of a welfare recipient. OF course my dad was well off but he was dirt cheap and married to someone else.  And of course my mom would not even read any papers , she would just sign. Sign the papers and go home and drink herself to sleep. So it aggravates me to no end when i hear about situations that could easily have been avoided. Lots of times those actions even lead to death. So that is my word.                          Until  Next Time,     Michael Muldoon.