Info on Moonridge Academy or Kolob Canyon RTC?

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-04-19 18:14:00, Antigen wrote:


Don't you get it yet? There's only one way to change someone against their will. You have to break their will. W/ a young, healthy kid, that can take some time.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:

and do serious, lasting psychological damage that can far outweigh whatever they were doing before they were incarcerated.

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984

[Anonymous]

You're speaking for yourself.  Too bad all the kids it turned around don't know about this site.  The ones that have get attacked.  You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in.  If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must?   :wink:

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-19 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You're speaking for yourself.  Too bad all the kids it turned around don't know about this site.  The ones that have get attacked.  You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in.  If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must?   :wink:  "

You have a really weird definition of "attacked."

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-19 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You're speaking for yourself.  Too bad all the kids it turned around don't know about this site.  The ones that have get attacked.  You know NOTHING of Moodridge Academy, but have decided they aren't worth admitting a kid that is self-destructing because YOU had a bad experience in whatever program you were in.  If you had a bad experience, then everyone else must?   :nworthy:  :nworthy:
and do serious, lasting psychological damage that can far outweigh whatever they were doing before they were incarcerated.

[Cayo Hueso]

ooooops, that was me. :em:

My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I had no character.
-- Charles Barkley, on hearing Tonya Harding proclaim herself "the Charles Barkley of figure skating"

[Anonymous]

Yes, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change.  What YOU don't get is that most people don't want to hide behind drugs or dangerous behavior the rest of their lives and don't know HOW to change.  In the beginning, they may not want to change.  Once they feel safe, and it's okay to be vulnerable, they choose to change.  Maybe you felt or feel it's breaking their wills, their desires, or whatnot, but it's surrendering the control they've placed on themselves to be okay with making choices that are not about their friends, parents, teachers, or others that would love to see them be as miserable as they are.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2004-04-19 22:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

What YOU don't get is that most people don't want to hide behind drugs or dangerous behavior the rest of their lives and don't know HOW to change.  

Don't tell me that I don't "get" drug addiction.  I get it much more than you could EVER understand.  Been there done that.  I was forced to change...."for my own good" :roll: .  Sure, when I got out I was the perfect child for a little while.  I was scared to death not to be.  Then when real life began to hit me, I had no idea how to deal with it.  I had never been given the chance.  The only time I did something to change the way my life was going was when I got sick enough of it.  Forcing me to change only delayed that process.......by YEARS.

Again, the only way to force someone to change is to "break them".  To do that to a child is unforgivable......especially under the guise of "help".  These kids are at the most vulnerable ages of their lives.  This is when they are forming who they will be.  It's a critical child development stage and to subject them to this kind of "treatment".....even if their behavior is frightening.....does far more damage than they could have done to themselves.  The whole key to this is for parents to take responsibility for raising their own children.  The relationship that develops from nurturing the child, guiding them through the rough spots, teaching them lessons of life is what will carry them through adolescence.  Unfortunately, quite a large number of parents seem to be either too busy or are just too uninvolved to bother.  They panic when the kid reaches the teen years and starts rebelling and changing.  Never mind that this is a normal part of the breaking away from the parents process.  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......quick, get 'em in a program!!!!!!!!   They're going to be dead-insane-or-in-jail :roll:  :roll: .  

Give me a break sweetie.....we've all been there, and quite a few of us on BOTH sides....parent AND teen.

Were the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. Thus in France the emetic was once forbidden as a medicine, and the potato as an article of food. Government is just as infallible,[sic] too, when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the Inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere.... It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia

[notworking]

On 2004-04-19 22:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yes, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change.  What YOU don't get is that most people don't want to hide behind drugs or dangerous behavior the rest of their lives and don't know HOW to change.  In the beginning, they may not want to change.  Once they feel safe, and it's okay to be vulnerable, they choose to change.  Maybe you felt or feel it's breaking their wills, their desires, or whatnot, but it's surrendering the control they've placed on themselves to be okay with making choices that are not about their friends, parents, teachers, or others that would love to see them be as miserable as they are.  "

Wow.  That's amazing.  Who knew there was this vast conspiracy of people wanting to make young teens miserable.  Probably they're the deceitful manipulators we hear so much about.

As I may have mentioned, I don't know ANYTHING about this school.  What I do know something about, though, is child development.  Children need their parents.  No matter how crummy they are, children will almost always choose to live with a parent than with anyone else.  Being without their parents is traumatic for them.  My point was that if this friend couldn't have phone contact with her daughter because the daughter would cry and want to come home, there's a serious lack of concern for what's really important here -- the focus should be on the child getting better, not making mom's life easier.  Mom made a decision to put the kid in this program, mom should have to deal with the consequences (her kid being unhappy with her).

Again, I am also concerned about the idea that an 11-13 year old would have issues that were independent from the way they were parented.  Preteens are not ready to make major life choices -- having sex, whether to use drugs, etc.  Healthy preteens understand this.  So if a child is trying to make those decisions, it's usually because those decisions (or similar ones) have been forced upon her.  

A great example of this is a mom who is out almost all weekend, every weekend, with a boyfriend.  Or is home, but expects the kids to fend for themselves and not irritate the boyfriend/stepdad.  Kids in that situation will feel, and rightly so, that if they are supposed to take care of themselves and make their own decisions in THAT instance, then they should be able to make their own decisions in other areas, too.  However, mom invariably feels that the kid is "out of control."  The answer is not that the kid get sent away to work on her "issues".  The answer is that mom needs to get a clue and start being a parent.  Sure, once she starts doing it, the kid is going to rebel, but that's the price you pay for temporary abdication of your responsibilities.

Virtually every severe "issue" that preteens have is either an undiagnosed medical problems (i.e. bipolar disorder) or a parenting problem.  They just have not (or should not have) had enough exposure to the outside world to start making major choices.  Fixing that problem is going to require more than sending the kid to boarding school, because they'll just come right back to the same crappy situation they were in before.

[Anonymous]

Great post!

 ::cheers::  :nworthy:

[Anonymous]

Notworking - You hit nail on the head.  So many RTC's help the kids, if they want it, but fail to integrate the family in the healing/help process.  Even if the parents are together, making good choices, the whole family must choose to work together so when the teen does return home, they have already done the "work."  After care is also important, whether it's therapy, family nights, coaching, etc.  Yes, kids do need their parents - and sometimes a separation needs to take place so they can get back together in a much healthier happier way.

[Deborah]

***Yes, kids do need their parents - and sometimes a separation needs to take place so they can get back together in a much healthier happier way.***

Only in your limited mental framework of what constitutes 'help'. Yep, you might see 'results'. Do the 'results' hold up under scrutiny and analyzation? That is the question.
I can make my daughter's dog hit the ground by picking up a Dr Pepper can filled with pebbles. He was 'changed'... with BM I might add. There are more humane ways that are not disrepectful or abusive.

[Anonymous]

Is that your idea of behavior modification, Deborah?  The Dr. Pepper can thing must have really happened, as no one would even think up such trash unless they actually did it.  Was your daughter watching when you pounded her dog?  OR, are you comparing this to Moonridge Academy and what they do to their kids?  You're one sick puppy, lady.

[Anonymous]

**Virtually every severe "issue" that preteens have is either an undiagnosed medical problems (i.e. bipolar disorder) or a parenting problem.** Written by "Notworking"

Good name, Notworking.  You say you know a lot about child development.  NOT! There's a much bigger picture here.  Can you see it? I didn't think so.    

BTW, I wasn't aware Moonridge admitted pre-teens.  Maybe I can find their website and see.  It seems to me you just want to get on your soapbox and this thread seemed to be the place to be.   :wink:

[Anonymous]

*** Is that your idea of behavior modification, Deborah? The Dr. Pepper can thing must have really happened, as no one would even think up such trash unless they actually did it. Was your daughter watching when you pounded her dog? OR, are you comparing this to Moonridge Academy and what they do to their kids? You're one sick puppy, lady. ***

And you're one f-in idiot. The dog was conditioned to 'fear the can'- traumatized. All one has to do is pick up the can and he immediately stops and hits the ground. Yeh, BM. And I didn't condition him, they did. For about $400 and these 'results' were accomplished over a weekend. I think they might have used a cattle prod. He certainly demonstrates 'respect' for the can- but, as we know, it's not respect, its fear.

And yes, I am comparing it to the techniques used in BM facilities. Remove the element of 'fear' and see how well these programs 'work'.

BTW, I've also walked into the kitchen when the dog thought everyone was gone, and found him licking crumbs from the table or stove- something he would never do when his 'masters' are home.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-04-20 22:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Is that your idea of behavior modification, Deborah?  The Dr. Pepper can thing must have really happened, as no one would even think up such trash unless they actually did it.  Was your daughter watching when you pounded her dog?  OR, are you comparing this to Moonridge Academy and what they do to their kids?  You're one sick puppy, lady.   "

Are you stoned or just stupid?

You don't *beat* the dog with a can of pebbles, you *shake* the can---the dog doesn't like the noise.  It's a mild punishment, like a spritz in the face with a water bottle, that lets the dog know you don't like what it did.

You know, people tend to suspect others of what *they* would do if they had the chance, so....

Do you still beat your dog, Anon?