Author Topic: Impeach George Bush  (Read 14895 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Impeach George Bush
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2004, 09:10:00 AM »
Democracy doesn't work.  Our only hope is for the rise of a nationalist, socialist movement in this country that will provide us with a strong central government, headed by a visionary leader.
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Offline thepatriot

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« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2004, 10:11:00 AM »
You have got to be shitting me Anon! your being factious right? You could always consider a move to Europe they are into that one world government thing, have at it the door is open. Don't let it hit you in your sorry commie ass on the way out. :wave:
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2004, 03:23:00 PM »
I hope you weren't talking to me "sweetie"

No Kaydee, you've probably figured it out by now, but I wasn't addressing you. But, still waiting on the figures to prove that Welfare is abused by lazy people.... Probably won't see them. Patriot would apparently rather stay ignorant than educate himself. He might have to rethink his opinions- too big a challenge.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2004, 03:26:00 PM »
Patriot,
How would your life be different if the US was Socialist or had some reasonable Socialist policies? For instance, everyone has access to health care. No insurance bullshit and scams. That would actually be a benefit.
How would it negatively effect you? Be specific.
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Offline thepatriot

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« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2004, 03:51:00 PM »
China,Cuba,France need I say more, why do you think the wall fell in Berlin, it Did not work. If I have to explain this you will never understand. Instituting even a a little socialism would cause the instituion of more ie; redistribution of wealth etc. If its that bad here and you crave socialism see the above countries listed I am sure they are taking immigrants because people are dying...literally to get out.
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Offline thepatriot

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« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2004, 03:54:00 PM »
Be advised I do realize, France is not complete communism although some would argue the point but their system of health care etc. is very poor. You think you pay alot of taxes now, institue a few scocialist programs and everyone will be in a 75% tax bracket.
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Offline thepatriot

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« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2004, 04:00:00 PM »
Also, don't get me wrong I am a firm believer that everyone should have health care, if they would revamp the curremt wellfare policies and change the income brackets to provide it to those who have employers that don' provide it it could work. There are many people in this country with little or no income, ie; section 8 that have excellent healthcare provided through their state, I know I have a sister that is on it and it pays for far more than my blue cross/blue sheild pays. But yes healthcare reform does need to be worked out. But the rest of those scocialist programs leave them in China and Cuba, they are not for me thanks
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2004, 04:45:00 PM »
Socialized medicine does not work!  In Canada, you have to wait six months for life saving treatments we in America take for granted.  Don't be fooled.  When doctors make less money they work less, and you will be waiting in line like they are in Canada and Europe.

Now, we can hope that reform will fix our failing system, but the reality is our government is not capable of fixing anything but their own bank accounts.  Therefore, the point is not what our government can do for us, but what we can do for ourselves.  We are addicted to cheap health care, cheap food,  cheap oil, cheap cars....  We have forgotten our responsibility to value these things.  With regards to health, it's simple.  Start doing what you can do to stay healthy.  We all know that eating right, excersise, drug use in moderation are keys to staying healthy, but we don't.  We all know that flossing our teeth will prevent tooth loss, but we don't.  We all know that being thousands of dollars in debt including car and mortgage debt is a trap, but we do it anyway.

Americans have to stop depending on our corrupt, impotent governement to bail us out.  Has it ever occured to you that you are being herded off a cliff?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2004, 08:16:00 PM »
I'm in total agreement about taking care of ourselves. Common sense and the wisdom of home-based care for non-emergencies has been lost. People have been conditioned to be dependent on modern medicine.

Chinese medicine is very different, or was, with a focus on prevention. Our interns are not taught nutrition and do not make a connection between diet and health. Seen what's on the menu at a hospital lately. Our health care system will 'make you sick' if you aren't already. More profitable. I feel no empathy for doctors. Around here you can't even find one who works on Friday. Perhaps they need to work by the hour- they might have more integrity, and we'd probably have far fewer in the business for the money rather than healing people.

I disagree with your comment that we have become "addicted to cheap health care, cheap food, cheap oil, cheap cars."
None of those things are cheap.
The least expensive car on the market now costs more than the house we bought in 1973. Think the cost of production increased that much? All that additional profit went somewhere.
When I started driving, around 1970, gas was .15/gal. Alternatives are shelved until the oil cartel pumps the last drop of petroleum out of the ground. We aren't addicted to CHEAP things. We are being fucked by every corp that provides basic necessities. The cost of things is totally arbitrary and subject to the corp whims and desires.
I'm all about people earning a living wage and putting a cap on the earnings of CEO/Middle Mgrs.

Here's my question. Anyone who is awake and aware realizes that the gap between the rich and poor is growing. The middle class shrinking. The cost of living increasing every year. Where does it end? With a total collapse of the economic system when the majority can no longer afford services and goodies, much less basic necessities?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2004, 08:36:00 PM »
Patriot,
What a gross exaggeration, "There are many people in this country with little or no income, ie; section 8 that have excellent healthcare provided through their state, I know I have a sister that is on it and it pays for far more than my blue cross/blue sheild pays."

Excellent? You sound like a fucking politician.
If there are two treatment options, Medicaid is always going to approve the cheapest, and usually the least effective treatment. You cannot see a specialist without a referal and certainly can't pick him/her.

Case workers lie to recipients on a daily basis. If you don't know what you're eligible for you can really get screwed. Many times, parents aren't covered, only the children.
If your policy is that bad, you might think about shopping around.

The people who are benefiting from Welfare are doctors, dentists, drug companies, grocers, Section 8 slumlords.
You could direct some of your disgust toward the latter. Around here they rake in $900+ a month for properties that should be condemned.

Very, very few of our tax dollars go the actual welfare recipient. No, the majority of our tax dollars are going to those listed above.

Oh, and the latest scandal around here- dentist who are doing shotty work on Medicaid patients (usually children) and overbilling the government. Putting in unnecessary fillings, caps, etc. Sometimes not bothering to use Novacaine--OUCH!!-- more profitable.

And, Medicaid just LOVES to pay for Ritalin, Adderall, Antidepressants, and the like. They don't pay for no counseling though.


 [ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-04-20 17:41 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2004, 08:48:00 PM »
I agree with you completely.  It does seem that we are headed for total collapse.  My reference to "cheap" is in relation to the rest of the world.  Most people in the world can't afford one junk car let alone two brand new ones.  

Debt is being shoved down our throats.  Are you aware that they now have home loans for people who have no income?  Figure that one out.  You can buy a car and not have a payment for one year.  It's crazy!

If you think the gap between the rich and poor is wide now, wait until this debt bubble burst.  Our government is stealing our future from us.  We will be lucky to have any health care, let alone "quality" health care.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2004, 09:08:00 PM »
***Are you aware that they now have home loans for people who have no income? Figure that one out. You can buy a car and not have a payment for one year. It's crazy!***

I did a little research on this for a Sociology paper. Here's what I learned.

The Real Estate "Market" is out of control.

Everytime a house sells (about every 4 years for the avg American), $10-15,000+ is added to the value of the home; whether it's worth it or not. The agents have to get paid and of course, the owner wants to make profit.

Joe sells his house for $165K, and suddenly every house for a square mile is worth $165K; again, whether they are or not.

Consequently, the 'value' of homes is exceeding people's ability to afford them.

It used to be that one would not qualify for a payment greater than 1/4 their monthly income.

Not enough qualifying buyers.

They increased it to 1/3 their monthly income.

Again, not enough qualifying buyers.

Wahla... Zero Down, Zero Closing, No Doc-Stated Income loans. And the latest 'Interest Only' loan. Sounds great, but what many don't realize is that its an ARM and in 5 years they may not be able to afford their home. Industry couldn't care less. There's money to be made in foreclosures too. Although  they would like people to think they don't like to get homes back. Justifies them charging a higher interest rate for those 'risky' borrowers.

What's next? This would be obvious to a child. Why are so many people in denial about the fact that cost of living is growing faster than incomes?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2004, 10:28:00 PM »
Went out for dinner and heard Tavis Smiley doing an interview with the filmaker Jennifer Dworkin. Check out her documentary "Love and Diane", Wed nite on PBS. Watch the trailer here:
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2003/loveanddiane/

Promises to dispell the stereotypical myths of welfare, etc.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2003/loveandd ... urces.html

And some good links on Poverty here
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2003/loveandd ... es_02.html

Those who can, tune in and we can discuss it here. I hope I'm not disappointed. The filmaker sounded sincere.
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Offline thepatriot

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« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2004, 09:14:00 AM »
Deborah, I sound like a politician hardley.I don't have all the answers I only know what I experiance, what I read , what I see on the media and talking to people.
Like I said if your life is so bad in the states why are you here? You seem to have all the answers I suggest you run for office. But I assure you one thing , with all the far left rhetoric ans socialism you spew, your average you six pack american would NEVER vote for anyone with your blinded view of this Utopian socialistic society. I guess I just get a little pissed when people sit around with their hands out wanting more from the government, no thanks , I can take care of myself thank you. Why do far left liberals like yourself always look to the government to take care of every aspect of their life. Thats the problem with BOTH PARTIES, they try to dumb down americans into believeing that they need them in every aspect of their lives. Health care hell I know it needs to be fixed, how ? shit I wish I had the answers. Gross exaggeration??? sorry i speak from experiance I am sorry I don't agree with you but thats no need to go to name calling ie: "Fucking Politician" ouch that hurt. Why do libs always resort to name calling when someone doesn't agree with their point of view ????
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Offline kaydeejaded

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« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2004, 11:03:00 AM »
the problem is just greed, thats what it proves, no one wants to share, everyone is afraid that someone is going to get something for nothing or get off without working...am I the only one who is like fuck it if a few people abuse the system, it really is not the norm?

They have kids who are innocent and should not starve for their crimes? It's crazy that we have such a high infant mortality rate in this country. It speaks of greed, massive greed that is just unacceptable. Where is the kindness and human decency? Is it that essential to hoard everything for just those who worked? I am not that way. I will not make children starve for hypothetical crimes of the mothers we always hear about. All these people with nice cars on welfare. Not the norm I am sure.

Socialized heathcare, because it didn't work or isn't working in Canada(not sure not up on the facts) should we give up on that? If the first time you tried everything and it didn't work you gave up you would get nowhere.

I respect your opinions Patriot but you speak of utopian as if it were a bad thing, if someone were to lay it out for you with a guarentee would you take it?

perfect world ?

People everywhere enjoy believing things that they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000051WYJ/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> BROOKS ATKINSON (1894-1984), Once Around The Sun, 1951.

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or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do