Elan was no straight

[Anonymous]

I am a former ELan resident, and would just like to say I have sympathy for the straight crew..maybe not repect for all of them, but a genuine sorrow for what you went through.

Elan was mild by comparison, it really was...nobody ever produced a knife in a threatening manner, though there were many available...hell we had STEAK knives available to everyone who wasnt "in the corner" or a threat to themselves...nobody ever got a blanket party, nobody got raped, no-one was ever a victim of physical confrontation UNLESS they were being restrained in an effort to keep from hurting themselves or someone else...its the truth...

What your doing is soliciting lies and exhagerations from former ELan students to support your claims...ELan wasnt like that, and you have been lied to by some very creative people.

Do what you have to do, but dont think for a minute you get any legitimate support from former Elaners who say they were in a similar hell...we were not...you folks may deserve whatever comes your way with regard to a settlement, or success in shutting straight down,,Elan was a far better place, and a much DIFFERENT place...

[Carmel]

Last time I checked we werent soliciting anything from anyone.

I dont know anything about Elan, I wasnt there....but I do know what happened to me at Straight...and I dont need anyones creative lies to convince me of that!

[Antigen]

On 2002-06-27 22:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am a former ELan resident, and would just like to say I have sympathy for the straight crew..maybe not repect for all of them, but a genuine sorrow for what you went through.


Elan was mild by comparison, it really was...nobody ever produced a knife in a threatening manner, though there were many available...hell we had STEAK knives available to everyone who wasnt "in the corner" or a threat to themselves...nobody ever got a blanket party, nobody got raped, no-one was ever a victim of physical confrontation UNLESS they were being restrained in an effort to keep from hurting themselves or someone else...its the truth...



What your doing is soliciting lies and exhagerations from former ELan students to support your claims...ELan wasnt like that, and you have been lied to by some very creative people.



Do what you have to do, but dont think for a minute you get any legitimate support from former Elaners who say they were in a similar hell...we were not...you folks may deserve whatever comes your way with regard to a settlement, or success in shutting straight down,,Elan was a far better place, and a much DIFFERENT place...

There are some differences, but not any of them very significant.

First, no one ever got beat up in Straight without the pretense of having brought it on themselves through misbehavior. In two years, I only got beat up once.

Second, I happen to know of a guy who pulled a knife on someone at Elan. What the hell is a "cowboy ass kickin"? What's the boxing ring?

Third, Elan had different houses for different classes of residents. If you were in one of the PR houses for softball cases, how would you know what was going on in one of the tougher ones? You probably were given every encouragement to believe that any negative thing they said about what was going on was all lies and manipulation.

Elan was not mild by any stretch. And, although folks say they've toned down the overt physical abuse to a great degree these days, it's still involuntary thought reform which, by definition, is mental and emotional torture.

[Carmel]

I agree, running for your life and your sanity was considered a "danger" to yourself and others in Straight.  So I guess its all a matter of perspective.

[Anonymous]

For the sake of arguement, I will respond to antigens creative twist of reality...you have been MISINFORMED....sad to think you waste your time with Elan residents claims of abuse and torture.

You are an overeager, angry person..I am not saying by any means that you have no right to be, but what exactly is it that you are seeking? An opportunity to shut down what can only be defined broadly as "group homes"?

The fact is..kids have problems that parents cant or wont fix, sometimes its the parents with the problems, but what the hell is the solution?...state agencies dont have time to deal with kids who, for the most part, were out of control, and displaying behavior unacceptable to whatever standards.

there HAS to be a place for these kids to learn...to be confronted in a manner that is continuous, and rigid.

Theres the question of WHY all of these kids were sent to Elan , or anywhere else, 99.9 percent of them or "us" will tell you there WAS no reason they needed an atmosphere with control..LIE!

Our society, and cultural outlines may not be a favorable place to grow and learn anymore...you could always live in a bus and stay as far away from the race for biggest house and the fastest car. Reaity isnt pleasant, and the truth is not always positive or productive, but its there, and we all have to find a place to fit into it...the kids who went to Elan were not even close to living with this idea and many cant do it now either. It was NOT a transitional point for a "normal kid" to a troubled adult. however hard they try to convince themselves.

The most common thing you are going to hear about ELan is the negative...the good things are boring, pointless conversation...and those that would waste the time telling about them are too damn busy living life TODAY rather than bother with the past that cant be changed.

I recall seeing a photo of Antigenic with a child in a disposable diaper. Seems a little odd that a person who is so worried about children has no regard for the environment we are preparing to leave them.
I can imagine there a alot of kids who decide they dont want to be a PART of the selfish two faced society we all live in now, and maybe seeing and hearing the things we do as adults has them decide that they dont WANT to participate in a learning process that will only get them as far as the selfish two faced udults that riase and feed them.

I remember a philosophy in Elan, one of many...it said "walk the walk"

So you have all identified your current problems as being a result of a childhood experience...good start (dilusional too).

I have asked, and never recieved a legitimate answer...If Elan, straight, or whatever is the problem, how can it be the SOLUTION?

Elan was different than straight in many ways...deny it til your blue in the face, it was..Elan had MANY positives, and was a very inticate system that produced results...

Its funny, but most every kid there had a parent group at one point during their stay, and I dont recall any of them being confronted on a request to LEAVE Elan when their parents where there.

Like I stated in the past..there were, by my estimates..2250 people to be in Elan for at least ten months...theres four or five who snivel and moan about it 10 even 20 years later...what the hell are the rest of them doing? I would guess they are taking on the everyday challenges of life, and couldnt care less about the past...many of them found benefits to Elan, many of them have horror stories too...but even they dont care to bring it out into a new light...it isnt happening anymore to them, or anyone else in ELan.

[Anonymous]

I have a question...WHY and HOW could a mass of adults get together, and form a place to abuse children?

[Anonymous]

people didnt get beat up in Elan..plain and simple...the "ring" was a tool used to TEACH a child that if you think you can intimidate and beat others...heres your chance.

You people must be prejudiced to other cultures and children of other countries, because if you were the humanitarian you seek a bozo button for, you might be more interested in the hoards of children who die as a result of misbehavior in other countries...
Its not an old fairy tale...if a child, or ANYONE steals..their hand or fingers are mutilated, and some are even forced to work hard labor for the rest of their lives...

fight for something noble...and quit licking wounds.

[ScottM]

Here we go again!!

What about the Cowboy asskickings? Did that never happen? I've read about molestations that occured there too. I guess that's all creative lies right?? I've definately read many, many, many more negative stories than from your 4 or 5 disgruntled residents. It it's only 4 or 5 then why do you even care? Obviously the 2250 others will drown them out. Elan was different than Straight I'll give you that but on the flip side it was the same as far as it's so called method of treatment. Confrontational, humiliating and performed by people that had no more background or experience other than being subject to the same bullshit at some point in their life.

Also the fact that your even insinuating that we're just sitting around licking wounds and waiting for some sort of settlement shows how little you know about this group and the people in it. I personally will be happy just knowing that noone else will go through what I and everyone else did so many years ago.

It's pretty easy (and lame) for you to just sit there and say "well there's all these other bad things in the world, why don't you fight for that" Well why don't you?? Why are you wasting your time trying to convince us on how wonderful Elan was for you and everyone else. So I suggest you go save the world if that's your goal. We'll keep on course with our goals.

We'll see who's right in the end so I wouldn't get yourself all in a bunch about it. Another saying we had which you may have heard before is that "it all comes out in the wash"

-Scott

[GregFL]

This guys is just a troll.

The boxing ring a tool?
no one ever abused at Elan?
Give us a break. We probably know more about Elan than you. We know where the treatment modality came from, the entire abusive teen treatment industry built around this modality, and have spoken to many people whom don't share your glowing support of being sleep deprived, brainswashed, locked up in small rooms and humiliated. Take it somewhere where your twisted history lesson is more appreciated.

[velvet2000]

On 2002-06-28 15:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
Reaity isnt pleasant


Like I stated in the past..there were, by my estimates..2250 people to be in Elan for at least ten months...theres four or five who snivel and moan about it 10 even 20 years later...what the hell are the rest of them doing?

I find reality quite pleasant.

The rest of them are living in fear, or still under the Elan infulence.

Lock five flies in a jar for one month, poke a few holes in the lid and feed them. At the end of the month only two out of the five flies leave the jar, the rest of them become accustomed to their environment and forget about the world outside. Maybe flies are smarter than humans, I think only one out of ten humans would fly out of their jars.

[Antigen]

Ya' know, harborside, excessive talking to oneself is a common symptom of post traumatic stress disorder...

[Antigen]

On 2002-06-28 15:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
I have a question...WHY and HOW could a mass of adults get together, and form a place to abuse children?

Oh, this is not an unusual scenareo at all. Ever read any Charles Dickens? Same thing. Some people will do the most horrible things for money, but for the most part they're just sick, twisted individuals who enjoy the power trip.

And there are plenty of other examples. One might wonder how in the world Jim Jones got all those people to drink the kool-aide, even forcing their terrified, panicked children to do it. I shouldn't surprise most readers of these forums that Jim Jones started out his ministry as a drug rehab on the same model as Synanon. In all cases, there were horror stories littering the wayside of these cults' history and rabidly devoted followers devoted wholely to defending their cult by ruthlessly attacking all critics.

So tell me something, if you will. How come Elan doesn't provide an alumni organization like most other private and public schools do? How come former 'students' had to come along decades later and set it up themselves? I know there are around half a dozen alumni websites and forums scattered around Cyberia. But if you look at the official Ealn website http://elan.com, there's not one link to any of these alumni sites. That's very strange, harborside. Don't you think?

[Carmel]

Wow, I dont think I have ever read an argument that was so filled with ignorance and contradiction in all my life.  

Shoot, never mind what actually HAPPENED at Elan....that rant is a damn mess in and of itself!

Whomever "Anonymous" is, they must have some real clout opening up and speaking for EVERYONE who attended the Elan school.  They must have done countless interviews, research, studies, polls and the like to come up with those conclusions.

It kind of reminds me of reading the comments by good ole Betty S. on Straight...."Didnt happen"  "all lies".....and wouldnt she be the one to know?  She was a founder for crissakes!  She plays God....just like Anonymous here would like to do.

Seems they think that what they believe is undeniable fact.  Therefore, all other options must be viscious lies.....its ironic that therein lies the very foundation for creation of these programs and their abuses in the first place.

Oh, and also dont let me forget this persons valiant attempt at trying to convince us that he/she isnt TOTALLY blasting us and our thoughts.  Its like saying....."I know you arent a bad person or anything, you just happen to be the biggest fattest liar on the planet".  Thanks Anon, I needed to be set Straight. :wink:

[kaydeejaded]

Come on now guys you know Straight helped us and we are just bored. You know the government would never let anything bad happen to innocent children. Lets just stop talking the talk and start walking the walk. Think think think eeeeek!
Fuck that was scary :grin: love ya group

[Matt C. Hoffman]

I am sorry that it has taken so long for me to respond to this post(the one that started this whole mess )

There was an assault with a large butcher knife .Late spring of 75 ,the fellow assaulted was Robert . This is something that I to this day still feel very guilty about .I don't know if it was what elan put me thru afterwards or that I was never able to recieve forgiveness from Robert (or what)I still feel horrible about the whole incident and am very sorry to Robert for the scars that he carries .

I find it odd that people who were in elan could say that we did not suffer serious abuse ,when the paths of straight or elan can be traced back to synanon. It is not my place to say which was worse ,though I will say that elan was a terrifying,twisted and crueley abusive place that I have ever witnessed in my life ,thats just my opinion.

Sorry again for the late reply