Author Topic: Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....  (Read 13114 times)

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Offline ClayL

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2002, 06:58:00 PM »
I remember Ms. Crow and always liked her. For some reason she struck me as giving a damn. I really should remember Ms. Byrd but I don't. I do remember this, Ms. Milnachuk used to always scare the shit out of me. No idea why as she never confronted me.

Yes, there was always a VERY high relaspe rate for staff member. I can even remember rumors of staff members using drugs and leading raps at the same time. I remember a parent telling me that I didn't want to be on staff once because to many of them relasped.

CL
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Offline ClayL

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2002, 07:00:00 PM »
Dude, I was knocking down $250+ a week with no bills..., and I still worked outside.

CL
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Offline SALEWIS67

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2002, 07:07:00 PM »
I guarantee you we made that much at the car wash, dude. Minimum wage for 8 hours a day plus $20 - $30 a day in tips. On a good day some guys could make 50 bucks in tips alone. Ask anyone who worked there.

Not knocking your job, but the car wash was a good job for a phaser.

SL
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Offline wayeast

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2002, 07:12:00 PM »
Clay,

I liked Mrs. Crow too, at first.  Since leaving, though, I've realized that she was probably only around as a "good cop" to Dennis Buttimer's "bad cop."   I vividly remember her coming into my intake to soften me up after Buttimer had reemed me out because my "corneas were cloudy," which he took as evidence of a lot of pot use.  The fact that I was there voluntarily (Forgive me: I was young and naive) made no difference: nothing I said could be trusted.

Any way, Ann Crow kneeling at my feet, touching my knee gently, and telling me softly to "just try to cooperate" took the edge off my defenses for when Buttimer and the oldcomers heaped on the accusations.  It was very effective.
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Offline kosmonaut

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2002, 07:16:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-07-22 14:50:00, SALEWIS67 wrote:
Kosmonaut , Care to give your name ?





Scott Lewis

[ This Message was edited by: SALEWIS67 on 2002-07-22 14:51 ]

Sure, why not?  It's David Sutton.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline kosmonaut

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2002, 07:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-07-22 15:50:00, ClayL wrote:
This happened just after I got out in Dec of 84. Apparently the Dir decided he'd had enough of the fucking misbehavers and decieded to confront the issue head on. With the help of several of the more gung-ho 5th phasers and some of the staff, the misbehavers were taken into the bathroom and shown what life in the gutter was like. From what I heard they had their heads flushed in the toilets and, with no pretense of restraining the client, had the hell beaten out of them. I think there were some broken bones. Several staff members were fired including the Director, all the participating 5th phasers were started over or thrown out of the program. Tom really could tell you more about it he was still there.



I think I remember that.  At least, I remember the people being abused, but I don't remember all the 5th phasers being set back and people being fired.  Although since I was a 1st phaser I wouldn't have known much anyway.  I was definitely there at that time.
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Offline Anonymous

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2002, 10:53:00 PM »
I remember her.... Abby Oar!!!!
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Offline Majiktrvls

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2002, 11:07:00 PM »
the bathroom incident did not occur until February of 85....my brother, James, was one of the 5th trainees and was set back completely. He was so set back that he left the program. It was a really bad scene, one that did permanent damage to not only my family, but to many others as well.
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Offline cram737

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2002, 12:39:00 PM »
I was there. It was May or June of 85. Days off were called in because the "condition of the group". No one could move up on phases and no one could could 7-step. Hell they had even taken our "singing privledges" away, which I have to say I was grateful for, I always hated that crap, still can't hear a James Taylor song without getting angry or depressed. But anyway, all that to say that staff had created a very hostile environment towards the 18 or so people that were "mis behaving" at the time. Thank God I was at school or work, can't remember which, at the time it happened. I was on 5th phase, so probally would have been involved if I had been there. Iremember coming in and seeing the blood, torn clothing, and holes in tahe walls in the guys bath room and asking another 5th phaser what happened. I remember his response to this day. He enthusiastically said it was "rightous" that Buttimer had given us the go ahead to kick some ass.Even in my brainwashed 5th phase S.S. metality, I felt sick. I it had gone way to far. Alot of people got really hurt that day... the kind of hurts that don't go away with stitches and casts.
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Offline enough

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2002, 02:54:00 AM »
Let me clarify some of this-

I was the only staff-trainee in the bathroom the entire day.There were four or five guys brought in over different periods of time.

NO bones were broken and NO blood was spilled while I was in there. Period. Whoever claims there was is repeating a rumour and talking without direct knowledge.

One kid had his head dunked in the toilet one time, that was Bob Ambrose, the youngest of the brothers. And although I was in the room when it happened, I stopped it after one dunk, because I had begun to realize that it was wrong at about that point.

We did make physical contact with clients that day, but no one was beaten, so to speak, we poked them in the chest, pushed them against walls. Frankly many many people were treated worse in open group, hundreds of times.

The stuff that happened in there was wrong no doubt, but it was by no means a license to beat people as some may have told you. Mostly we screamed and yelled and humliated people in a intense envronment similar to a boot camp.

 Mr. Tilly was the exec in charge then, and I have no idea if he was specifically aware of what was happening while it happened.

Monty Bingham is the Sr. Staffer that told me to take a list of people into the bathroom and do 'whatever it fucking takes, I don't care, but make them change'

He was also in the office the next day with Kris and others, all of the execs, while I was confronted for what happened. Ironically, the primary arguement against me was that this was not how I had been treated. I agreed, not having the nerve to tell the truth, that I had been treated as bad or worse- I was threatened with a gun as a newcomer, sexually molested as a newcomer, and had to ask for permision each time I wiped my ass in one home, just to mention a few things.

 To my knowledge only one other person was set back- Rob was dropped to a fourth phase refrsher as I was. Most of the rest were confronted heavily in group, but I do not remember any of  them being set back. I took full responsibility for what happened, except for Rob, who I believe was set back because he admitted leading the charge to dunk Bob's head in the toilet. Not that it makes it any better, but the toilet did not, as some have claimed, have any shit or piss in it at the time.

Mr. Tilly did leave the program shortly after I did, though whether he was fired or not I have no idea.

If it makes you feel better, I have spent 19 years living with nightmares almost daily that include the events in the bathroom. I can't hold a job, never went to school, am extremely uncomfortable around children, self medicated for the better part of 19 years, I have signifacant health issues because of the stress involved and the degree of self-loathing I feel, even as I write this I find myself wishing that I would simply die to escape the reality of what those bastards turned me into.

I have attempted suicide multiple times, I have commited myself at least twice, and to this day, I regularly consider suicide, and have to call my therapist and talk it out.

I have stress related back problems that are directly related to these events, I have been hospitalized twice in the past five years because of the pain.

 I do not live a happy life, I live a life in which I can not fall assleep, I mostly end up sleeping in the daylight, and only after being awake for 24-36 hours at a time. I dream of home invasions by former clients who come to kill me, and I often wake up screaming and covered in sweat.

 I was beaten up by a former client outside a bowling alley in 1986. He knocked me out cold and then spent some time hitting me in the face and stomach before I recovered enough to flag down a cop. He made it clear that he felt I was to blame for anything that happened to him because I was a ficking staff trainee- in reality I was jsut as affraid and compliant as anyone elee, and I had little or no power at all.

I moved around from state to state and home to home for a long time without filing a change of address form, for fear that the program or former clients were hunting me down to kill me.

As damaging as these events were to Bob, or to others that were brought into the bathroom that day, they were just as damaging to me, and I suspect to any of the fifth phasers that were in there.

So hate me if you want, if it makes you feel better. But do it for the truth, and not over some rumour that spread over the years and grew into something that simply is not true.

There were similar events in the girls bathroom, I do not know who was involved and I have no idea what became of it. I withdrew from the program within two days of these events.

 There is no way in any sense that I should have ever been left alone in the bathroom in that environment. I was a trainee, and as such I was expendable and a good scapegoat.

The program was by its very nature and design abuseive to everyone who was admitted. It was the very core of the program to humilate people and make them feel intense emotions of guilt and shame, and that was part of the modality far before Straight adopted it- as far back as the 1950's under the name Synanon, and before that as a thought reform process developed in China and Korean POW camps.

The only person to blame is Melvin Sembler, he was the driving force, he knew how the modality worked, and according to former members of board of directors, he was determined to avoid any kind of legitmate medical assesments prior to admission- fro mthe very start.

Everyone who was brought in was brainwashed, from exec's like Ann Crow whose own children when through the program, all the way down the group staff. Sure some people were more comfortable than others with the modality, but then all people are different and some people enjoy power.

Personally I think the Callum kid, who was turned into a walking bruise after breaking helen Mortons Jaw- was treated worse than jsut about anyone in the Atlanta group between 83-85.

I can never getr rid of the image of him being arrested outside that day, literally covered in bruises- and charged with felony battery- while those who had beaten him went scott free. But then the program had some kind of political connection with the sherriff of cobb county at the time, as well as local judges in their pocket.
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Offline cram737

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2002, 03:44:00 AM »
Like I said, I wasn't there when it went down and I'm in no way accusing you of being responsible. We all, I would suppose, did things to other people we are ashamed of and would never do under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, cruelty was just a part of the methodology of the program and it was inevietable if you planned on ever getting out of there not to mention that by the time you reached your higher phases you really believed the things you were doing to people was helping to save their lives, or at least I did. I in no way blame you for the events of that day, if I remember you correctly you were a pretty kind hearted guy and a fairly good trainee in respect to treating people fairly. Unless my memory is totally whacked though, I do remember blood,holesin the walls and torn clothing in the bathroom and I believe Donny K. from Gastonia was messed up pretty bad. Things like that happened. Blaming other victims does no good for anyone. I do hold executive staff responsible though. They were completely aware of what was being done to us and not only did nothing to stop it but profited from it. There were also several girls hurt pretty bad that day, so yes, it did take place on the girls side too. I'm sorry for the pain that time has caused you and I hope that life with freedom  from the effects of it is on the horizon for us both.
                   Marc
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Offline ClayL

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2002, 01:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-20 00:44:00, cram737 wrote:
Like I said, I wasn't there when it went down and I'm in no way accusing you of being responsible. We all, I would suppose, did things to other people we are ashamed of and would never do under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, cruelty was just a part of the methodology of the program and it was inevietable if you planned on ever getting out of there not to mention that by the time you reached your higher phases you really believed the things you were doing to people was helping to save their lives, or at least I did. I in no way blame you for the events of that day, if I remember you correctly you were a pretty kind hearted guy and a fairly good trainee in respect to treating people fairly. Unless my memory is totally whacked though, I do remember blood,holesin the walls and torn clothing in the bathroom and I believe Donny K. from Gastonia was messed up pretty bad. Things like that happened. Blaming other victims does no good for anyone. I do hold executive staff responsible though. They were completely aware of what was being done to us and not only did nothing to stop it but profited from it. There were also several girls hurt pretty bad that day, so yes, it did take place on the girls side too. I'm sorry for the pain that time has caused you and I hope that life with freedom  from the effects of it is on the horizon for us both.

                   Marc


Here, HERE!

Clay
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Offline enough

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2002, 07:45:00 AM »
Through the blessing of blocked memories, I can only recall Rob, and Bob, of all the people that were in the bathroom.

Donny K, rings absolutely no bells at all, and I am glad of it.

There may have been holes in the wall, for one thing I got so frustrated with Bob that I hit the wall myself, and may well have bloodied my own knuckles.

But it is hard to say, and these issues work out very slowly.

 I was nothing more than a fall guy in this incident- a disposable low ranking staffer whose loyalty was being tested. Had Bob Ambrose not gone home and told his foster parents what happened, and had they not started calling execs that night, this would have been like any other day in the program, and nothing would have come of it.

I would have gone on to rise through the staff ranks, most likely to the top. I would likely have become a drug warrior, a zealot, and most likely a law enforcement officer- I am glad that it blew up in my face, because despite the horror I live with and have survived so far- I think that I am a better person today for all of it.

I whole heartedly bought into the ideology of the program ( that is- shame and guilt are necessary motivators for one to become a good citizen), I was convinced that we were fighting against a devil inspired disease that was insidous and evil. I was resolute in my desire to help people, much as I thought that I had been helped, and continued to believe for literally 18 years.

In retrospect I was a deeply confused young man, who had been severely abused both prior tp my intake and during both of my programs. I was desparate for something to believe in, I was idealistic, altruistc, and highly intelligent and impressionable.

Those are prime elements of a cult-joiner and believer, across the spectrum of cultic groups.

I have a hard time holding some of the exec's responsible, because they were themselves brainwashed. Plenty of adults get brainwashed and believe really wacked out stuff- look at the doctrine behind scientology and think of the high profile grown ups ( Tom Cruise, John Travolta) who are high ranking memebers of the 'cult'.

I hold Melvin Sembler and his Wife, along with Joseph Zappala, Art Barker, Robert Dupont, and the others who developed and refined the modality fully responsible.

Incidentally, Tilly was on as an exec for a while, then left and returned as the director after Dave Buttermur left. It was Tilly who presided over the roughest periods of late 84 and early 85.
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Offline ClayL

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2002, 09:02:00 AM »
James wrote: "Incidentally, Tilly was on as an exec for a while, then left and returned as the director after Dave Buttermur left. It was Tilly who presided over the roughest periods of late 84 and early 85."

This I did not know. I remember Tilly from when I first came in and he left before I got out. Buttermer was the director then. When I came back on the Mini-program, Ben Webb was the Director, but he left shortly after I got there.

CL
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Offline cram737

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2002, 10:06:00 AM »
All I know is that Buttimer resided over  my intake in July 84. He was the driving force behind all of my sister's set backs, stuff like that is hard to forget. I remember Tilly coming in right before I stepped in June 85 and I don't recall ever seeing Buttimer after the day all that happened. I always assumumed he got fired or left because of it. What I am absolutely sure of is that he was the exec. for the major portion of my program. I was 12 years old and terrified of the man.
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