AA Abundant Life Academy

[Anonymous]

Well guys, as I said, I'm not up on the details and so I don't feel I can comment on most of these things with enough clarity to be helpful. Its not that anything was a big secret; I just have trouble recalling the details.
I am personally not at all concerned that Craig is any thing less than honest and trustworthy and committed to the very best for the kids. I've seen many examples of this in the time I've know him. I trust him. Dispite having been burnt by this 'industry', I trust him. My experience with him has been such that he has earned my trust. He has never at any point given me reason to think I shouldn't.
You may certainly chose to remain skeptical; and in light of your own experience its understandable you would. If I had not had the experience with ALA I have had, I might join you - but as I know them, I know better.
I do feel strongly, the students come first at ALA; and the fact they felt no hardship due to misappropriated funds was due to the sacrifice of the Roger's family and the rest of the ALA staff.
I can't prove this to you guys; but I do myself feel confident it is so.
And Ginger - I'm certain no one is pissing on my pants leg; but thanks for your concern
:wink:

[Anonymous]

Anybody beginning to notice that one parent's passion for their program of choice is really no different than any other parent's passion for their P.O.C.?  

It's all based on PATIENCE, FAITH and NO WAIVERS (meaning trust the program 24/7).

So Karen, what's a kid to do if their parent is a BORN AGAIN PROGRAM FANATIC??? Pray that there really is a God to deliver them from such evil???

 :flame:

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-24 18:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

I am personally not at all concerned that Craig is any thing less than honest and trustworthy and committed to the very best for the kids.

Then...

I do feel strongly, the students come first at ALA; and the fact they felt no hardship due to misappropriated funds was due to the sacrifice of the Roger's family and the rest of the ALA staff.
I can't prove this to you guys; but I do myself feel confident it is so.

But... but, Craig Rogers seems to be saying... no, wait, it doesn't just seem that way, he is saying that this other guy failed "misserably" to provide room, board and care for the students contracted (like chattle) to him. And you say you're sure that's not true. So... how does that boil down to "honest and trustworthy" or to the kids in the other guy's care suffering no hardship or, far more, that owing to sacrifices by the pioud one back stateside?

Karen, it just doesn't add up. It's not even a long, rambling story. Just a few short paragraphs which seem to contradict eachother directly.

And Ginger - I'm certain no one is pissing on my pants leg; but thanks for your concern

Ok... look again!

If we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education

--Thomas Jefferson

[warriorprincess]

Karen,
I am happy that your involvement with ala has been a good experience and that it has worked out for you.  I think a lot of parents wonder, after the fact, how to unravel the mess that wasp has created, how to deal with that deep and profound sense of sadness,  and to move forward then, and effectuate the things they purported to do (unite and heal the family, HELP your child).  
I for one am constantly asking myself (perhaps from shame and guilt), what can i do to make up for the awful mistake i've made by sending him there, how can i better help him, and how can be an advocate for other kids in the same situation?  My thoughts and actions are reflective of that.

from what i have seen, your results, is your son graduated highschool, in thephoto he looks happy, and you yourself also looked happy.  
you must be pleased that you were able to attain a goal (helping your son, helping others in the same situation).  
on religion:  Religion is adaptive, and a personal matter.  I do, as a matter of opinion, prefer the "non-denominational" christian aspect described on their website and the fact that criminals, thugs, etc. do not belong there.
Karen, you helped me when i was dealing with the realization of what had transpired during my son's 3 week stay at wasp.  You consoled and you were not judgmental, your posts to me were thoughtful insight, and your suggestions were practical, You were able to empathize and sympathize, what i am trying to say is I appreciated your help and I NEVER QUESTIONED YOUR MOTIVE, there was no need, your sincerity made that clear.  
:smile:
Gina

[Anonymous]

Straightening out wayward teens by shoving God's "love" down their throats 24/7 is as bad as force feeding your kids Ritalin to make them more "efficient" in the home, school and community.  

The sky is not falling, folks.  That is a myth perpetuated by the teen help industry.  If your child needs help, start with a good family therapist.  Cut back your work schedule.  MAKE TIME FOR YOUR KIDS. Listen to them.  They want your attention and appreciate boundaries much more than you think they do.  They want you to care and sending them away is not CARING. It is raising them by checkbook and long distance telephone calls no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.  

 :idea:

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-24 18:30:00, Anonymous wrote:


So Karen, what's a kid to do if their parent is a BORN AGAIN PROGRAM FANATIC??? Pray that there really is a God to deliver them from such evil???



 :flame:

"

No, you pray that there's not `cause, despite everything, you love them and wish things could be better.

Busy, curious, thirsty fly, Drink with me, and drink as I.
-- William Oldys (1696-1761): On a Fly drinking out of a Cup of Ale.

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-24 19:39:00, warriorprincess wrote:

what can i do to make up for the awful mistake i've made by sending him there

Realize that you made the mistake long before you ever sent him to WWASP for repair. You made the mistake when you started to entertain the idea that your child was flawed beyond a mother's love. Acknowledge that and talk with your feet thereafter and your son might respect you as much as I do my dad.

Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked,  and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that  the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque  self-deception."  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0517150735/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mark Twain, The Mysterious Stranger, 1916, Ch.9

[Anonymous]

Thank You Gina.

Call me sometime, just to say High.

Ginger - I wish I could provide you and Deb with an reply that was better able to help you have a clearer idea of the dynamics behind all this confusion; but I can't.  
If I begin to try and give a detailed explanation I would be bound to get facts confused and so its best I don't try.
Still, remember, I have been pretty close to the situation as it unfolded; and so was aware of how it played out at the time; and in no way felt ALA was being shady or any thing less than honorable and sacrificial on behalf of the kids and their families.

And remember, I do have Some ability to smell a rat and detect manipulation by program operators.
I wish my memory were sharper; so I could give you a precise account of events and explain why the comments aren't as contradictory as they seem; but with out writing things down, I can't keep details in mind - they just evaporate into the myst of my once upon a time smoke addled brain.

I've been trying to think why you and Deb view the web site as you do; and I wonder if it isn't simply that you aren?t accustomed to reading Christian writing? I don't see it at all in the light you folks do, and I think maybe its simply b/c I am used to reading such  writing from one Christian to another.
And yes Ginger, I do believe all that 'rot'.
And rest assured, I will keep an eye on my pants leg. :wink:

Red Faced Screaming Anon:
As far as I'm concerned you have long sense proven yourself devoid of any scruples whatsoever.
Your opinion has long sense lost all validity.

[CraigRogers]

Dear Debra,

The answers to your concerns are in my original statement. God gave us two ears (in this case two eyes) and one mouth (in this case a keyboard).  After reading your statements of judgment against me and Abundant Life Academy, I propose that you use your ears twice as much as you use your mouth.  It might help your understanding.

From your correspondences on this forum IT SEEMS like you have been hurt deelpy and that your wounds have created a nasty pit of bitterness in your heart.  It also SEEMS that you feel the need to spew out your bitterness on anyone you fell deserves it.  However, as I said... IT SEEMS...  I dont know you, and it would be very unfair of me to make such radical statement and judgments against you without knowing the whole picture about you.  So, based on my extremely limited knowledge and experience of you it would be ridiculous for me to make assumptions about you.  It would also be unfair. Perhaps you can learn something from this.

It is real funny that some people so easily make judgments against me and these very same people  have absolutely no ability to do what I do. In otherwords, they offer no solution but feel empowered to judge and criticize the efforts of people who are doing something about the problem.  Stop criticizing others and get out there and be a part of the solution!

Kids in the US are in trouble, and Debra you are not offering a solution.  You just have complaints and judgments against those who are willing to give their all.  I would love to give you my job for just one day.  Come and work with me and see what I go through.

I was one of these "troubled teens".  I put my parents through hell and back.  In my case, my problems were not caused by my parents.  It was my choices that caused my troubles.  My parents did everything they could to help me, but ultimately I rejected everything until the consequences of my choices totally devasted me.  For years I hated my parents for the things they did (in reality I hated myself for what I was doing to them but it was easier to blame them for my troubles).  However, now... I am extremely grateful for all that they did.  They are truly great people.   I hope to be half the parent they were.

Also, I am not making money at this job (give me a break!).  To me this is a calling.  If I make any money I give it back to parents that cant afford help.  As a matter of fact, I paid money last year to work for Abundant Life Academy.  If you could spend just one day in my shoes I think you would get a whole different picture.

To help you understand the statements in my original statement.... Josue and Patricia were not hired to provide anything but the housing and food services.  Meaning, they were the landlords and managers of the property.  They were also supposed to provide for the food services (meals).  I brought in my own professional staff to care for the students (teachers, mentors, supervisors, etc).  

I am sorry that you feel compelled to be judge and jury and have no desire to know the facts.  You are welcomed to give me a call, and, any solutions you might have to help us to empower our students would be greatly appreciated.  We are always striving to get better.

As a matter of fact, we are erecting a home for some homeless people.  We sure could use some labor help.  Why dont you come down and help us help others.  Spending your time being a part of the solution is much better then criticizing those who are a part of the solution.

God bless,

Craig Rogers
435-644-8297

[Anonymous]

Ah, the Passion of The Program Parent (that would be Karen Z.) beating the drum of salvation, this time for a program based in St. George that does not thump the Book of Mormon, but the Holy Bible.

This would be downright funny if not for the fact that children are at risk of being recruited by psome rather dubious people with a "calling" and a self-proclaimed talent for helping kids.  

Now where have we heard this before?

 :idea:

[Deborah]

Craig,
What my 20/20 vision noticed is this:

You avoided the questions posed.
Engaged in self-aggrandizing.(Don't Christians consider that a sin?)
Judged, made assumptions, and critised me while proselitizing against such.

It's your perogative to answer or avoid. It's neither here nor there to me.

Based on what has been shared in this thread, I stand by my assumptions about you. You have offered nothing to convince me otherwise.

You're not making money? You mean, profit? Who pays your living expenses- housing, food, medical, transportation? Independently wealthy? Ward of Christian Charity?

You perceive what you're doing as a "solution"- perhaps the only one, I don't- it's an option currently available to troubled parents. Therefore, I'd have to decline the invitation to work for your ministry. My 'calling' is in a different direction.

Kids in the US "are in trouble"?

[Anonymous]

Craig - I appreciate what you are saying.  I agree that Deborah and many others are quick to judge.  All of us make mistakes and I see you taking steps in the right direction to correct and learn from yours.  What I don't get is your association with Karen Burnett.  Was it a package deal if you employed her son?   Have you not read the horrible, sick and twisted statements she's made on this board, and several others.  She is not a person I would want my troubled child to have any experience of AT ALL.  I have my reasons for my opinions, and they are mine and may not be shared with others.

[Deborah]

quick to judge?

Craig said:
His business has never employed professional staff, never had a student, NOR ANY FORMAL AGREEMENT OR CONTRACT with Abundant Life Academy of Utah.
And:
May it be known that Abundant Life Academy of Utah paid ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? $52,000.00 US Dollars over from May through September 2003. The payments were made in good faith with the expectation that ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? would deliever on their promises to provide room and board, along with food services to the students of Abundant Life Academy. ?ACADEMIA VIDA ABUNDANTE DEL LAGO CHAPALA? failed miserably to perform their verbal agreement to deliver stated promises.

I asked:
If Aparicio was shuffling the funds intended for the teen's care to Bettencort, what exactly were the conditions under which the teens were living? Did they have inadequate food, housing? Were they hungry and sleeping on the street or in lean-tos?

Karen responded:
I?m not up on details; but I do know the kids didn't go without food or housing - because while all that was going on, my son was there. The boys weren't affected in any noticeable way. The food was plentiful; and good, I?m told, tho sometimes a bit spicy.

I asked:
That sounds to me like Aparicio upheld his end of the VERBAL agreement, which was as Craig stated, "to provide room, board, and food services for the students of ALA."
Which one of you is confused about what was or was not provided to ALA students?

Craig's unrelated response:
Josue and Patricia were not hired to provide anything but the housing and food services. Meaning, they were the landlords and managers of the property. They were also supposed to provide for the food services (meals).

And I'm quick to judge? The questions remain unanswered, directly anyway. Ya'll are posting on a public forum. You should expect questions and honest opinions.

[Anonymous]

Karen, as I understand your statement published on the PURE website, at some point after enrolling your son at Dundee Ranch (sight unseen?) you changed your mind and removed your son from the program.  Not sure if your son came home or went straight to ALA but am curious as to how you heard about ALA and whether you took your son there or had him transported?  Probing questions I know, but like you said in your own statement, where there is smoke, there is fire.  

http://helpyourteens.com/news/january_2 ... etter.html

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-25 19:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Karen, as I understand your statement published on the PURE website, at some point after enrolling your son at Dundee Ranch (sight unseen?) you changed your mind and removed your son from the program.  Not sure if your son came home or went straight to ALA but am curious as to how you heard about ALA and whether you took your son there or had him transported?  Probing questions I know, but like you said in your own statement, where there is smoke, there is fire.  



http://helpyourteens.com/news/january_2 ... etter.html"

P.S.

Karen, to be fair, I think you have reached out to teens and parents with no other motive in mind but to acknowledge their pain and let them know someone cares. That's a good thing! However the fact remains that you are now part of a controversial industry, and as Deborah says, you should expect to be challenged with tough, probing questions, even if you don't welcome them or consider the negative attention to be unjustified (or undignified?).  Bottom line is FULL DISCLOSURE is not just a good idea, it is the best and only way to ensure that parents do not make a decision they and their child could live to regret. Get those cards on the table and play square and fair.  After all, we are talking about the safety and well-being of kids, not repairing toasters.