Author Topic: Getting over it.  (Read 7584 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Getting over it.
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2004, 02:42:00 PM »
Wasn't that you they just posted naked all over this sight? I understand not living with anger and all that, but aren't you the least bit upset? B/c I haven't heard a peep out of you about that. If that was you, I hope your child never has to see that crap.  For that matter I hope to never be exposed to such a sight again either. I almost poked my eyes out. But whatever floats your boat.
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Offline Anonymous

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Getting over it.
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2004, 03:25:00 PM »
^^^^^^troll^^^^^^

 ::troll::
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Offline Therion

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Getting over it.
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2004, 05:42:00 PM »
A bout of deep depression.
Can't seem to move it forward.
My lying eyes lie awake.
Not sure what I am after.

I never died before.
Can't live what happened yesterday.
I never stoned the crow, no.



Flip through endless stories.
A life of hand-written pain.
No one can share this hurt that is mine, mine, mine.


I never died before.
Can't be what happened yesterday.
I shouldn't stone the crow, no.
Ride on!


Same old city, same old pain.
No matter how I try,
No matter what I say,
I'm blamed, I'm shamed,
I'm judged unfairly.

So now I've died before.
Jesus Christ couldnt stand the sight of me.
I never stoned the crow, no.
You too have died before.


It's more than less of yesterday.
I never stoned the crow, stoned the crow, no, no.
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aving the way for the new breed of bad seed

Offline whiterabbit

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Getting over it.
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2004, 07:55:00 PM »
I'm glad you liked my rewrite of the 7 steps. I'm new to the board. In fact I'm new to the idea that straight was abusive. I always thought of it as harsh but gosh didn't I really need that? Wasn't it better than being dead? Wasn't that the alternative? I've struggled with various compulsive behaviors, depression & co dependence since i left straight and I never really understood why. I thought it was me. Just more proof that I needed to be in that place, that somehow that "therapy" just wasn't enough. That I was crazy. It is only after entering genuine therapy that I began to understand why I did those things. Compulsive behaviors are the RESULT of repressed feelings-worthlessness,self loathing, fear,hurt and especially anger. We were never allowed to feel much less express any of those things -unless it was somehow directed at ourselves. Remember "I" only conversations. And even though I thought I had "handled" that period of my life, my subconscious has been editing and repressing for twenty years. Applying the steps just the way I rewrote them. I left straight behind but some part of my brain and my heart didn't.The voice in my head saying "get over it, Don't be such a baby" and so on is the Straight voice. I feel empowered being able to express my rage. We should all be outraged.What they did was emotionally devastating,crazy CRIMINAL. And I am NOT over it.I have just begun. I'm going to write the darling DR EVIL a letter. (I'll post it of course)My therapist loves the idea. When I ask him why all this is necessary, why I can't let it lie, he says this: When you suppress one emotion, you suppress them all. So suppressing rage suppresses joy, happiness and insight. And that energy, that emotion has to go somewhere. Compulsive behavior, self loathing, inexplicable outbursts. It doesn't just go away. It waits for opportunity.He also says that emotional therapy is a bit like physical therapy. You have to execrcise those wounds. Pull at them, stretch them and it hurts. But eventually they become stronger and hurt less. This is the best in fact the only place I can think of to do that. The bit with Dr Newton and Dr Fucktard? Sheer genius. Awesome to be able to make fun,scream and yell at them. Real or not.

I apologize if I am lecturing. I don't mean to. You are expressing concern and you are right, this all by itself is not healing. It can be overdone. It is a very raw place. We are all here to exercise our demons.Your warning is fair and your concern is kind and duly noted.

And you are right that "love heals, hate steals". I like that phrase. But sometimes love means letting people express their rage. I am happy to give Therion, myself, all of us what that Straight never did.The compassion, genuine empathy and  patience to express our pain. Let Therion (sorry you're the only name I know)rant & howl about his loss. He has every right. As do we all.

And when we're done screaming maybe we can begin to heal.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some howling to do.
 ::kiss::  ::kiss::  ::kiss::

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

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traight Incorporated is a disease

Offline ehm

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Getting over it.
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2004, 11:15:00 PM »
Quote
When I ask him why all this is necessary, why I can't let it lie, he says this: When you suppress one emotion, you suppress them all. So suppressing rage suppresses joy, happiness and insight. And that energy, that emotion has to go somewhere. Compulsive behavior, self loathing, inexplicable outbursts. It doesn't just go away. It waits for opportunity. He also says that emotional therapy is a bit like physical therapy. You have to exercise those wounds. Pull at them, stretch them and it hurts. But eventually they become stronger and hurt less.


That?s a very old therapeutic philosophy, that dates back to Freudian and behaviorism concepts, and has since been proven ineffective by medical science. To be honest with you, it sounds a little like the stuff I heard in straight. Actually, ?Compulsive behavior, self loathing, and inexplicable outbursts? -- Usually stem from some type of chemical imbalance, or other form of neurological disorder, not random "suppressed" emotion. That type of therapy is commonly known by my psychiatrist as ?dwelling therapy,? ? His words -- because it supports regression techniques, and suggests analyzing past emotions. Where do you go with all the stuff you dig up? Why keep going back there? Isn?t there enough to be angry or sorrowful about in the world without holding on to the old stuff too? I?ve felt just about all the sorrow and anger I can take for one lifetime. I?ve been back there plenty of times without help, and have not been known to suppress much of anything. I just don't need to be angry anymore. It's harmful to my wellspring of life.

I apologize if I sound cheesy, but again, the concept of feeding into hatred, and rage, or frequently revisiting a painful past experience, in the name of healing or therapy, is an ancient concept, that science has since proven otherwise. I?m not saying that you don?t have every right in the world to be angry. Especially if you just realized you were a victim of that horrible place. You may go through many stages of self realization during this time, certainly including anger, rage and sadness. When I found all this information last year, I was floored! I immediately started trying to educate others on not only my experience, but the experience of others, past and present. I needed this validation! I paid for a booth on Earth day, and passed out copies of documentation. I spent eight hours that day, talking to people who were drawn in for one reason, or another. My booth had a sign that said, ?Help Stop the Abuse.? I went to Kinko?s twice that day.

I was angry and sad. Torn apart actually. I finally had confirmation that I really had been gypped. I was devastated. All this not long after we had also lost my daughter?s father, my best friend. It?s inevitable you will go through painful emotions, just don?t get stuck there. It?s always your choice, I?m not trying to tell you what to do. This is all just from my own experience. I believe that rational thought, and healthy choices should guide my life, not impulses and emotion. Therapy is about healing to me. Healing isn?t about focusing on pain. It?s about letting go of pain and fear, and growing. My doc also said that if he were in it for the money, he might go at it from that approach, since that type of therapy takes years and years. I?ve been seeing him for going on five years. I know that I took myself back to my past and ?dwelled? plenty without any encouragement from him. I wrote about it in the first of this thread. Through his guidance I have acquired tools for my life that I am profusely grateful for.  

We all have individual experiences, and are on different levels of the healing process. I understand and respect that. It?s good that you are in therapy, and that you have a healthy support, you can trust. If revisiting the past helps you right now, more power to you. Just know when enough is enough.

Don?t bury yourself in skeletons.



There is much to be said about behaviorism. There are some real good books about it (e.g. J.A.Mills: Control: A history of Behavioral psychology). In general, however, most books and writings are very unclear, and behaviorists and psychologists are mostly lacking a deeper understanding of their own discipline. This may be due to the lack of scholarly studies because it is regarded a natural science, and thus consider experiments, not reading a prestigous activity. It may also be due to ideological forces that the employees of psychologists want a science that controls behavior, not conscious people in control of their own behavior. In my opinion 20th century psychology has not been Darvinist. It has not considered behavior an adaptation to the environment (but believed itself to be so). I consider psychology a historical science, the human psyche is something that developed in cultures. Anthropologists like Goody have demonstrated how writing has changed human psychology. I recommend very much the works of Kurt Danziger, a leading historian of psychology

--History & Theory of Psychology greenspun.com : LUSENET
 

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Offline Anonymous

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Getting over it.
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2004, 09:24:00 AM »
and your health and stability really showed through in your t&a pictures.  Come on Maude give up the advice you are like the rest of us, messed up.  While your here spouting about your "wellspring" and letting go of your pain, well frankly who would take you seriously after all the other stuff we have heard here.  If you wish to continuously spout your over-played live in the moment of eternal joy hippie bullshit have at it. But really it is hard to take you seriously, the old saying actions speak louder than words. Didn't Dr. Newton say one thing and yet his actions didn't add up? Which means..hmmm...let me see...words are just that until your actions match up maybe?  I think this whiterabbit poster is actually trying to get some where and deal with the rest of his life. Like his philosophy or not he sounds like he is trying to deal with some problems head on.  My hat's off to you white rabbit.
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Offline ehm

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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2004, 10:01:00 AM »
You?ve got to be joking, because those were really tasteful, attractive pictures. There were only two of them, and why would I care (if they were me) if my teenager ever saw them?  The contours of the female form are a common artistic focus, and beautiful. You wouldn?t believe how well a friend of mine does, modeling nude for the drawing and painting classes at the college here. I don?t teach shame to my child.

If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn. Just seems like another thing to add to your long list of stupid things you've said or done. Actions speak louder than words huh? Then go look in the mirror.  BTW ? I believe whiterabbit is a woman, I hope she sees you for what you truly are.

You're only making yourself look bad.


 
The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
 -- Kahlil Gibran

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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2004, 10:14:00 AM »
Quote
If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn.

It was you. I know.  :rofl:

I don't know why you want to deny it, they're not bad pictures.  :eek:

Oh well, that's what you get for not removing my real name from the board when I asked you to...
Tit for tat.  :lol:

BTW, Morli...in case you suspect that the anon is me - that anon was NOT me, for what it's worth.
(If you don't believe me, just ask Ginger.)
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Offline Antigen

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Getting over it.
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2004, 11:16:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-23 10:27:00, Maude wrote:

"
Quote
you could also log off this website if it "takes away from your own well being and mental stability"?



Right you are! All I?m saying is, that all of our active pursuits are our own personal choices. If you constantly seek out conflict, anger, rage, and hatred, you?ll always find it. There is a happy medium. Very little in life is all or nothing.



Of course the world doesn?t go away, with the avoidance of negativity. The choice to do so however, can be very elucidating, and rewarding. Marinating in hatred isn't my idea of living.


For around 18 years after I walked away from the Program and my natural family, I lived that philosophy. That had been my husband's advice; just relax, have some fun and live a normal life for awhile. It was a good and healthy thing at the time. I was still too close to the experience to be able to look at any of it objectively. All I knew how to do was freak the fuck out and be terrified and rageful over it.

So I told myself that I was just a little paranoid, it was just a throw-back to my weird childhood and that the world was more-or-less OK.

I started to come around to the idea that I do NOT want my kids indoctrinated in So. Florida public schools around the time my oldest was 14. She was involved in a school program called Peer Counseling (not a class, but a psych program by definition).  More info:
http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/studentsup ... /peer.html

There's a lot they don't tell you in the brochures or in the parent orientation on conference day. First, the kids are given a special status. They're allowed to wander campus w/o a pass or a good reason and even tasked to escort other students around. Then they're encouraged to snoop and pry into the private business of other students. Whenever they come up w/ something juicy, they're obliged to report it to a staff member. Practically any one will do, but if the Peer Counselor isn't available, then the DARE cop is the prefered contact.

It was just all so Program like. I didn't find out till a couple of years later that the program was written and sold to the school systems by none other than Bill Oliver, former director of Straight, Va.

While we slept, they walked. I'm fully awake now.

He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_12s4.html' target='_new'> James Burgh 1774

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Froderik

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Getting over it.
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2004, 11:19:00 AM »
Rock on, Ginger. You da man! (so to speak)  :tup:
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Offline Dr. Miller Newton

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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2004, 11:39:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-03-24 07:14:00, Froderik13 wrote:

"
Quote
If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn.


It was you. I know.  :question:
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Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease

Offline Dr Fucktard

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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2004, 11:41:00 AM »
Oh, I DO think so, Virg. I really do. More pictures.  ::hehehmm::

What does the group think?  :smokin:
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Offline ehm

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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »
Ginger,

I know that, and it's all really scary and corrupt. I fully agree. I'm not blind to the world, or our destructive government system, or to the fact that program lives. That still doesn't run my every thought and decision, or dictate how I act or react to my emotions towards them. I never said don't be angry. I just said that excessive anger is unhealthy.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »
Maude,
Of course you shouldn't teach your daughter shame at the sight of the human body. That goes without saying. However the difference between your friend and the nude modeling is the end is art right? Or that is supposed to be the point. Exploiting the female form in my humble opinion does not make any of us more free. Before it comes up I think it's exploitation when half the male board members can come to a stright inc. board and download bathroom material, as they openly said. If you think what your friend does and your pictures which elicited responses such as "that's a MILF" are the same thing then I am ashamed for you. How can any self-respecting woman enjoy self deprecating compliments? I don't want to be judgemental as much as I think you should think about the true bottom line.

Oh you call this trolling, I call this freedom of opinion. I didn't post your pictures but I am responding to them. Again welcome to the real world, actions have reactions. I'm sorry my post made you so defensive. I just like to give an outside opinion of how your actions could be viewed. I never said if I actually agreed with any of this or not..but catcalls via the internet and art students painting your form are to different forums. All this all boils down to is if you want to be taken seriously your actions matter. Enough said and I will respond back to you no longer, listen with an open mind or not. From what has already been posted about your life is regretible anyway. I hope all the happiness you spout about does come to you one day.
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2004, 12:45:00 PM »
Quote
Morli (Maude) wrote:

and why would I care (if they were me)..

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, sweetcheeks...   :wink:
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