Author Topic: Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?  (Read 2861 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2004, 06:13:00 PM »
So Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly? This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.  If you don't join, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?  Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?  Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on?  That is pretty sad.  I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away.  What kind of plaintifs are these?
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2004, 10:05:00 PM »
Gee Spots.  You have crossed the line many times in stating your opinions.  I guess underfed means they don't eat steak every day or they have an unlimited supply of ice cream or can open the fridge and eat anytime they are bored.  You seem like an enabler from what I've read and think that kids deserve to have whatever they want.  No self control.  How long will it take for wwasps to sue you for defamation?   Maybe you're just too small in their eyes.  In my eyes you are obsessed with making up for your own lack of self control by blaming someone for your failure in raising your own daughter to fit your mold.  Good news is that you have a grand daughter that you seems moldable.
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2004, 11:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-08 15:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"So Spots answer the question, will these parents settle this case quietly? This case has gone from something public, as it has been anounced over and over again on public boards, to something quite the contrary.  If you don't join, meaning if one does not claim abuse, then one doesn't get to know the outcome?  Is that the way it is going to be? Are you saying that those of us who are trying to find the truth based on all the claims these plaintifs have made may never know the truth?  Wow, I guess that means these plaintifs get paid and then they just walk away and let the abuse of other peoples children just go on?  That is pretty sad.  I can't imagine that people can claim such rampant abuse...yet just take some money for it and walk away.  What kind of plaintifs are these?  



"


I agree, this is sad.  But is anyone really surprised? Think about it. Or rather, the "cause" that apparently, has been lost in the aftermath.  What a travesty.

 :cry:
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2004, 01:01:00 AM »
On 2004-03-08 09:08:00, Antigen wrote:

[/quote]


If it weren't so sad, it would be funny seeing WWASPies point the finger about money grubbing. Get some reality, folks! You YOU are paying or have paid tens of thousands of dollars to have your kids kept in accomodations in what wouldn't fetch $50/night in some third world tourist trap. The staff is not professional and not paid very well. There is no highly skilled kitchen team; no hors riding or sailboarding instructor. No real expenses at all, except of course that of defending against the inevitable lawsuits from a continual stream of unhappy former customers.
[/quote]

Ginger -  After all this time of assumptions about a WWASP school, I've yet to hear that you've visited one. Are you against any program that teaches values?  What are yours?

One of their schools has an equestrian program - are you saying they don't have a "horseman" there to teach them?  

http://cc.carolinasprings.com/student_life
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2004, 01:26:00 AM »
Values?

"Teaches values"?!!!

I have a huge problem with incarcerating young people without trial or civil commitment hearing to "teach them values."

If, at fourteen, a child doesn't already more or less share the parents' values, then there's a good chance that there's either something wrong with those parents or something wrong with those values.

Now, not a *certainty* that the "values" are flawed ones, or that the parents are flawed ones, but it's *certainly* worth having some disinterested, responsible person brought in to ask the question of whether the teen really has a condition that necessitates residential treatment, and whether the organization/institution chosen provides services appropriate to that condition or contraindicated with that condition.

One size does not fit all.

If you're a Zoroastrian, you shouldn't be able to ship off your teen to a school that "teaches values" just because you're upset that the teen is agnostic or Gnostic or Coptic or whatever.

(I deliberately chose obscure religions or sects to avoid anything any discussion participants might be---I'm speaking in hypotheticals.)

"Teaches values" is too easily a euphemism for "no, Johnny, you can't be an apostate from Mommy and Daddy's religion."

While I think it's a bad idea, I am reluctantly okay with parents being allowed to force their teens to attend their church.  I am also somewhat less reluctantly okay with parents being allowed to prevent their teen from openly practicing a religion the parents disapprove of.

I am totally *NOT* okay with parents sending their kids to brainwashing facilities to *force* the kids to *believe* the parents' religion---or some set of "values" consistent with the parents' religion.

And I am unconvinced that there are adequate safeguards to prevent all these schools conspicuously owned and operated by Mormons from serving as Mormon reeducation camps for teens who just aren't buying Mommy and Daddy's religion.

Put the safeguards in place, and I don't have problems with private boarding schools teaching whatver religion they want to teach.

Without the safeguards, you bet your boots my hackles rise over some snaky/syrupy "schools that teach values" rhetoric.

Forcing teens into a religion is conversion by the sword, and no matter what the religion, when it comes to conversion by the sword, I'm agin' it.
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2004, 10:29:00 AM »
Personal values.........not the parent's values.  To learn to respect the parents values, but to live their own. So you don't believe in kids learning to value their own life or find what gives them passion in a healthy way?
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Offline Kiwi

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2004, 10:53:00 AM »
Quote
One of their schools has an equestrian program - are you saying they don't have a "horseman" there to teach them?

Knowing the way WWASP plays fast and loose with the English language, that probably means they have a donkey.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2004, 11:58:00 AM »
They probably have a donkey. . .
Not that there?s anything wrong with that!

But do they have a horse? If so, what kind of shape is the animal in? Is it well feed; wormed on a regular basis; well trimmed and shod; Washed and Groomed and Curried as it should be; Is there more than one, and or, does it have a companion to keep it company? Is there adequate pasture, safely fenced, and clean well kept stalls?

What kind of shape is the tack in? Is the leather well oiled and kept clean? Are the fittings checked and inspected as they should be prior to putting a student in the saddle?

Are the 'students' taught to ride; or just thrown up on the horse and allowed to yank it around and call it riding?
Are they taught ground safety; or at risk for getting their heads kicked off?

Are all the 'students' permitted to interact with the horse or horses? Maybe in gradually progressing way? Clean stalls, water and feed, level one. Groom and curry, level two; Ride at a walk and trot in the ring, level three - at a canter level 4; on the trail level 5 and 6.

I suspect no students gets near the horse or horses until level 4,5 and 6. Being as interaction with an animal and caring for one, can greatly facilitate health and healing.
Health and healing seemingly being the opposite of the program goal in the first few levels.

There have been accounts of animal cruelty from Dundee students; and accounts of "consequences" if a lower level was caught petting the dog.

I hate to think of such people as this having a horse under their care; as the animal is more helpless than the most helpless kid.
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Offline spots

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« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2004, 12:52:00 PM »
The referenced website for CSA reads (in part):

All activities strive for a proper balance of recreation, exercise, learning, personal development and social opportunities. Initially, all students are restricted to activities on campus. Over a period of time, students may earn the privilege of participating in off-campus activities.

***One activity, a visit to the Carolina State Legislature, was written up glowingly in The Source.  Of interest is the fact that a personal visit to the office of the Carolina legislator that was the "high point" is the same legislator whose own child was sent to CSA for several years.***

-------------------------------------------------
The student alternates between morning and afternoon sessions of school, daily group support sessions, physical fitness, and library time. Educational and emotional growth videos, and motivational tapes are played daily.

***Poor parents...it sounds good on paper, but the reality told by "hundreds" of kids is one of "school sessions" time alone with a check-the-box workbook, "group support sessions" where kids have a free-for-all and are encouraged to ravage other kids' private thoughts written the night before in Reflections, "physical fitness" of laps around a walled-off courtyard or hours in the sun weeding the landscaping or washing staff cars, "library time" in a small room full of "Chicken Soup for 'the Everything' [kid's words] level of literature.***

------------------------------------------------

Local off-campus agencies offer weekly counseling sessions for alcohol and sexual abuse. A psychologist is available on campus five days a week and may be independently contracted by parents for private counseling sessions.

***Dr. Marc Chappius is "available" at exhorbitant fees, and only appears on a random infrequent basis.  Medical care by the "nurse" is also suspect, as witnessed by several former students, as well as the Carolina Department of Health in its on-going battle with the unlicensed facility.  The length of this battle may have something to do with intervention by the above-mentioned legislator intimately involved with CSA.***

-------------------------------------------------

Upper level students are also offered opportunities to participate in the CSA Leadership Program which consists in assisting staff with parent tours and coaching students throughout the day.

***Ask any student or parents about the leadership opportunities of total freedom in orchestrating a child's life, one in which points are earned by giving out consequences to underlings.  Leadership also means escorting parents and visitors on "edited" tours, carefully leading them into approved areas only, with conversation and outright lying about what life might really mean for the child whose parents send him to CSA without contact or parental involvement/supervision.  This is part of the Leadership Program?  Since when is deceit a value to teach children?

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On campus activities include basketball, football, soccer, volleyball, softball, hiking, gardening & fishing. CSA also offers a full on-site equestrian program to trust level students. Other on campus activities include movies and popcorn, monthly birthday parties, crocheting, puzzles, board games, journal and letter writing, reading, drawing and painting.

***A full and safe equestrian program?  How many teenage girls are enticed with this feature?  Mom probably points to the advertising..."they have horses, darling"...and the kid goes along with it.  Sounds a lot like the Judas goat who leads his species calmly to the slaughterhouse.  FWIW, The Source magazine had an article long ago about the "equestrian program" at Dundee Ranch [since shut down, and owned by the same Narvin Lichfield as CSA].  A young man was shown sitting on a Costa Rican horse, and his first-person story told of being bucked off, getting back on, and conquering his problems by this action.  Of interest to me as a knowledgeable horseperson was the picture:  rail-thin scrawny horse (not cared for properly by any "equestrian program"), its head hanging sadly while standing on asphalt (dangerous), kid in T-shirt and tennis shoes (very bad), loosely holding rope reins at chest level (way dangerous), with a big grin.  Conspicuously absent was the kid's helmet!!!  Yikes!!!  This young man was plunked on a sad local horse, sent off without the most basic safety gear, no knowledge of riding, and HE PROUDLY CLAIMS HE WAS BUCKED OFF!!!  I don't believe it.  Was he bucked off onto the asphalt before or after this picture?  Would a caring parent be satisfied with this sort of child endangerment?  Isn't this abuse?***

-------------------------------------------------

Trust level CSA students are offered a variety of off campus activities including choral performances, debate, roller and ice skating, dining out with local community members, fishing, golf, swimming, and other water sports. Occasional excursions are offered to nearby national forests, local high school and college sporting events, historical sites, popular beaches and theme parks.

***Will the student who actually went golfing, to the beach, and to a theme park please stand up and be counted?  Do they tell parents that "trust level" kids have spent about 2 years and $100,000 to get their one-time trip off campus?  Do they tell parents that this Trust Level student represents a tiny fraction of inmates, and the activities must be crammed into the short couple of months at the end of the Program before the kid graduates or turns 18 and leaves?  A funny story is of one mother who wrote her son in Mexico, asking if she should send his swim trunks and fins right away, as the weather was warming quickly.  Son later said the kids got a real laugh out of that one.***


It is impossible to put every-day experience into analyzing this CSA advertising because no one can expect the reality that is WWASPS.  That is our job here, folks.  Tell it like it REALLY is.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2004, 03:01:00 PM »
Quote
Tell it like it REALLY is.


Spots, tell it like it is, READ THE ENROLLMENT AGREEMENT. It spells everything out very clearly.

FYI, the parents don't sign the glossy brochures, they sign the enrollment agreement.  They know what they are signing up for or more specifically, they know what they are signing up for in which their kids are not going to get.

The parents are not blind going in.  You may have been blind to knowing what your granddaughter was being signed up for if you did not see the agreement before hand, but her mother knew full well what the program was about.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2004, 11:38:00 AM »
Spots, tell it like it is, READ THE ENROLLMENT AGREEMENT. It spells everything out very clearly.


NO, it dose not.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2004, 01:33:00 PM »
Quote

Spots, tell it like it is, READ THE ENROLLMENT AGREEMENT. It spells everything out very clearly.

somehow, I highly doubt that.  Would you please post a copy of an enrollent agreement so we can judge for ourselves?

 
Quote
They know what they are signing up for or more specifically, they know what they are signing up for in which their kids are not going to get.

Huh??



Quote
The parents are not blind going in.  You may have been blind to knowing what your granddaughter was being signed up for if you did not see the agreement before hand, but her mother knew full well what the program was about."


Well, that's not something I'm willing to just take your word for.  Seen to many that completely gloss over what REALLY happens.  Again, please post an example.

Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.

--Sisterbluerose

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2004, 01:56:00 PM »
Well, if you are an overweight person, do you have a God-given right to sue fast-food restaurants for feeding you food that is "fattening"?  Stay tuned.  Congress is reviewing the so-called Cheeseburger Bill and if it moves forward, it's not going to be so easy for consumers to file lawsuits against fast-food establishments.

Hold the cheese, please?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2004, 01:58:00 PM »
great fucking comparison idiot
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Offline Anonymous

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Goal of class/direct action suit is Not to save kids?
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2004, 02:05:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-03-10 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"great fucking comparison idiot"


Thanks, glad you saw the comparison, even if you missed the point, you imbecile.  The point is Congress sure seems interested in protecting the KFC's of the world, but when it comes to proposing legislation to protect kids from a billion dollar industry that profits from institutionalizing them without due-process, sorry, that's a PARENTAL issue.  We got more important things to do like vote on the Cheeseburger Bill.

 :smokin:
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