Author Topic: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)  (Read 3415 times)

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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Last night while I was talkin on the phone I watched a miller maggot crawl over my head across the ceiling.  Submissive-Authoritarian slavery, behavior modification, so it is ... and why doesn't it stop ??  It is as Straight said.  We must do more than simply put a patch over the blood.  The core of the disease is deep, in the roots, in the soil and the water and the very air these days... There was a meaningful conversation here once, worth having, but it has devolved into a Submissive-Authoritarian dream on Facebook.  The internet divides us as it informs us and we trust each other and everything the less for it.  We live indirectly and love does not come through... like it should.  We are bein channelled into the illusions of freedom and responsibility, but we are more the slaves for it.  Don't be fooled by appearances and the seductions of social prestige ... We were in Straight.  We know the better for it. 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:25:34 PM by starry-eyed pirate »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

dragonfly

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 01:05:19 AM »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 07:01:10 PM »
Ohhh brother !!  LOL, yes .... although, and perhaps I am overly romantic about these things, but I don't know if the program is as old as life itself, as you say.  I think it's as old as civilization, but there doesn't seem to be any defined line or boundary between and I can see how ritual has been used throughout human culture, even before the people became settled and learned to farm ... and the roots of human culture are deep in the animus, so yeah... but the centralized social power institutions have taken full advantage of the civilized lifestyle to usurp the old intentional consciousness of our oldest ancestors, who knew the value of transmitting consciousness through ritual. Modern centralized social institutions use program dynamics to emotionally and subconsciously manipulate the individual members of our society, very much the way the people who ran Straight, whoever that was, were able to manipulate everyone in group but a very few.  Love is the answer.  Stop buyin stuff !!!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 09:23:34 AM by starry-eyed pirate »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 07:07:01 PM »
We might have to come to some definition for the term "program", because while you may be equating all institutionalized persuasion with the program, when I refer to the phrase, "the program" I am only referring to that ritual, or institutionalized persuasion, which indoctrinates and sustains the submissive-authoritarian consciousness.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 09:29:56 AM by starry-eyed pirate »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014, 09:39:20 AM »
I think another consideration, worth investigating is the development of ego consciousness.  Julian Jaynes espouses the idea that the ego consciousness is a relatively recent development, which only manifested a few thousand years ago when people settled into farming communities and began to write and develop centralized social authorities.  Previous to that, Jaynes asserts that humans had a bicameral form of consciousness, without ego.  If that is the case, and he makes quite a remarkable argument for it in his book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, it makes it somewhat more challenging to relate to our oldest ancestors and their use of ritual.  The idea is that once people started to develop ego consciousness, centralized social authorities became necessary to compensate for the breakdown of the bicameral consciousness.  Trip on that for a while...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 09:42:57 AM by starry-eyed pirate »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Froderik

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014, 10:59:52 PM »
slavery and the simultaneous denial of the existence of slavery is the basis of all human civilizations

George Orwell had a word for it which he coined in his novel, 1984:

"Doublethink," which meant "the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."

Where is Woofadoof? Don't make me call in the days!!  :D
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 11:02:36 PM by Froderik »

dragonfly

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 07:35:09 PM »

Offline Froderik

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 01:25:00 PM »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 01:19:18 PM »
"The idea is that once people started to develop ego consciousness, centralized social authorities became necessary to compensate for the breakdown of the bicameral consciousness."

Pirate, does Jaynes say that?

Was that part of the pizza box discussions?

It's difficult to remember all that went into those beautiful ol pizza box discussions but I reckon that had to be part of it, and yes that is part of what Jaynes has to say.  You should really just force yourself to read him.
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

dragonfly

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2014, 02:28:04 PM »

Offline Froderik

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 10:08:45 AM »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 06:19:17 PM »
And what of the Hindu's Karma then... cause that concept's gotta be pretty old...? ...And involves a concept of ego...right ?  Maybe it makes sense though, if the Indus valley is one of the worlds first civilized places ... I think Gobekli Tepe is 12,ooo years old !  People were settlin into small farming communities in what is now southern Turkey about 10,000 BCE.  I think Jaynes says that the Bicameral consciousness functioned well up until the time when a series of natural disasters, which created hordes of foreign refugees mixing together, coinciding with the development of writing, and especially the use of metaphor, which taught people to be objective in the absence of their personal authority archetype(personal gods) which in turn then led to the development of the modern consciousness of self-awareness and ego...  To Jaynes when ancient cultures practiced rituals with mummies the tribe was involved in a kind of a group hallucination that was very real to them.  A kind of a social entrancement so as to commune with the personal authority archetype(personal gods)... but Jaynes says that as civilizations developed the bicameral consciousness began to fail and slowly over time the gods were lost to most and could only be reached through those who were still bicameral, the prophets and the oracles and these types ... the schizophrenics ... channeling the Word, the Logos ...
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2014, 06:36:19 PM »
...and if you think it about it much, it seems like humanity would never have ever mede it this far if our modern form of consciousness had much history.  It makes sense that it's a construct.  The brain is really quite malleable and can be easily modified to adapt to varying social and environmental conditions.  Jaynes says that the modern consciousness is a response to social and environmental conditions and that it is only about 5,000 years old, so before that people didnt have to wrestle with heavy moral dilemmas because they weren't capable of sophisticated intentional manipulation and whenever they were challenged by novel social or otherwise stressful situations their brain would react by creating a hallucination which spoke to the person and gave him direct guidance.  Jaynes even provides scientific analysis of the structure of the brain as evidence to support his theory and says that schizophrenia is a remnant form of the bicameral consciousness.   
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Re: steppin into that ol river again(current observations, re-articulations)
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2014, 06:46:32 PM »
So in a way, it's like sayin that up until about 5,000 years ago everyone was naturally capable of having schizophrenic-like-God hallucinations and receiving auditory hallucinations at the same time... and it seems like there were a lot of personal gods in the ol days and ancestor worship was common around the world before writing was invented and the cities were built.  There are no clear demarcations in the evolution of consciousness.  The group evolves, only as an individual adaptation becomes established in the general population.   
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.