Author Topic: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry  (Read 10233 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« on: May 23, 2013, 05:32:45 AM »
Link here.

It mentions Josh Shipp, Aspen Education, Swift River Academy, and others.

Full text here minus videos and photos for posterity (emphasis added):

Quote
AMERICAN TEENS ARE BEING TRAPPED IN ABUSIVE 'DRUG REHAB CENTRES'
By Matt Shea

If you like Army Wives, Preachers’ Daughters, Dance Moms or any other TV show attempting to create a taxonomy of women based on the professions of their husbands, fathers and children, then you may well have caught an episode of Teen Trouble. It’s a reality TV show on the US Lifetime network where a guy named Josh Shipp sends “at-risk teens” to "alternative rehab centres", where they’re forced to endure emotional and physical abuse before being allowed to rejoin society.  

Shipp is your classic Jerry Springer brand of therapist – no real qualifications, a huge ego and a penchant for money and entertaining TV over science and genuine psychology. “I’m a teen behaviour specialist,” he says in the intro. “My approach is gritty, gutsy and in your face.”

But the show is a lot grittier than you might expect from that typical teleprompter spiel. The unregulated "troubled teen" industry is able to persist despite numerous allegations of physical and sexual abuse, torture and death at various institutions, and Shipp is exploiting that same system for monetary gain. Even when they aren’t abusive and/or deadly, the pseudoscientific practices used at “tough love boarding schools” have often proven to be ineffective and can lead to PTSD, anxiety, depression and drug addiction. Maia Szalavitz, author of Help at Any Cost: How the Troubled-Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids, told me about some of the horror stories her own research uncovered.

“The classic list is food deprivation, sleep deprivation, public humiliation, beatings and denial of access to the bathroom to the point where you wet or soil yourself. But I’m also constantly hearing stories of people being forced to re-enact various traumas, like being raped,” she told me.

Szalavitz continued, "At Mount Bachelor Academy,

an Aspen facility

Quote
an investigation found bed sheets that had been used during re-enactments, and one of them had, ‘I am the yes girl, spray your cum on my tits,’ written on it. Let’s be real: this is not therapy.”

The methods used at these facilities are arguably traceable to an anti-drug cult in the 60s called the Church of Synanon. Their method was to abduct addicts and then “rehabilitate” them through beatings and humiliation. “I found that virtually all of the programmes that exist today using the harshest tactics were either founded by former Synanon members or sent people to Synanon to learn the treatment,” Szalavitz told me.

Former patients have been airing their stories on Reddit and other websites, so I contacted a few of them to find out more. It soon became clear that today’s residential teen treatment centres still have all the trappings of a cult.

One night, Nick Quinn was roused from sleep at his home and taken to Aspen Education’s Outback programme in Utah (the same programme Josh Shipp sent Jacob to in episode two of Teen Trouble) because his parents caught him smoking weed.

“At 4.30AM, I was woken up by two strangers holding handcuffs. They took my wallet and phone and told me that if I didn’t want to go easily they would make it hard for me. I thought I was being kidnapped. Next thing I know, I’m in a big white truck on my way to the airport,” he told me.

Once he arrived, Nick was given new clothes and survival gear, tied up and shipped into the wilderness, where he would remain for eight weeks. His boots were taken away at night to prevent him from escaping on the freezing cold ground. All of which seems a little aggressive for smoking a bit of weed.

After his ordeal, Nick was sent to another Aspen institute – the Swift River Academy in Massachusetts – where he was kept for seven months. “I was lucky my parents pulled me out. You could just tell they wanted the kids to be there as long as possible. They were milking it; my parents spent around $150,000 (£98,407).”

At Swift River, Nick endured the same kind of “therapy” I’d heard about from every other young victim, and which numerous academics had told me can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). According to Szalavitz, the goal is to break the child down psychologically and brainwash them: “The reasons these tactics sound similar to enhanced interrogation techniques, AKA torture, is because they're the ways you can break people and leave minimal marks.”

Now, years later, Nick has developed an anxiety disorder, experiences recurring nightmares from his time in “therapy” and still smokes weed. Understandably, his parents regret sending him there as it seems to have caused more damage than it prevented – something that appears to be a recurring theme with victims of troubled teen camps.

"Pretty much all the kids who I’m in touch with [from the camps] have dropped out of school," Nick told me. "Most get re-addicted to drugs. When you get out, you have all this freedom and you don’t know what to do with it. You lose control, you know?”

Aria Leonard, who was sent to the Monarch School in Montana seven years ago, had similar experiences. Aria told me her mother sent her there because she “disliked the friends she was making because they were ‘different’ – black, gay, etc.” After a pricey $2,000 (£1,312) visit to an “educational consultant”, Aria was diagnosed as depressed, as a drug addict and told by her parents she’d be going to “boarding school”.

Aria first realised it was no ordinary boarding school when her belongings were taken and she was strip-searched on entry.

“Right after that I was taken directly to a group session. People were talking about drugs, sex and alcohol, then everyone started screaming and crying. I was really confused and started to wonder if there had been some sort of mistake. I was then asked what drugs I'd done to be put there, and – despite my insistence that I'd never done drugs, was a virgin and wasn’t violent – they didn't believe me.”

Aria was forced to undertake pointless physical labour, like cutting down huge trees and dragging them along the ground for half an hour, as well as being told to sit opposite a wall at night and continuously write stuff like, "I am a slut" and "I'm not good enough".

Like most victims of the troubled teen industry, Aria was forced to divulge “disclosures” – a form of ludicrously invasive confessional. “You had to write about everything bad you'd ever done, with an emphasis on ‘sexual disclosures’. I had very little experience in sexual anything, but they wouldn’t believe me, so in the end I just made it up,” she said.

Aria was also put through the same emotional breaking-down sessions inflicted on Nick. During procedures known as “insights”, teens were denied bathroom access, food and sleep for three to five days. They would also be made to perform role-playing exercises that ended in them acting out their own death – exercises Shia likened to the kind of “therapy” seen in this bizarre video.

Aria remained in the centre for 18 months. Like Nick, she has since been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and continues to have nightmares about her experience.

Liz went to 39 residential treatment centres and describes being abused and raped multiple times. Rape claims are common in the industry, but – as the children are completely under staff's control for years – lawsuits rarely surface.

“The excessive use of punishment and humiliating procedures isn't only unhelpful, but also traumatising for young people," said Professor Robert Friedman, a child psychologist. "As is the practice of having strangers wake them in the middle of the night and transport them far away without any preparation.”

And it’s not just the trauma-inducing methodology that makes the industry questionable; it’s also the diagnosis. "What is a 'troubled teen'?" Szalavitz wonders. “The idea that we put kids with Asperger’s, heroin addictions, depression and extreme anxiety disorders in one programme with a rigid, regimented schedule and expect it to help all of those kids – how could that be?

“Americans have this idea that addiction and drug use is about complete hedonistic abandon, seeking extra pleasure and defying your parents. They missed the fact that the people who really tend to have problems with drugs are people in pain seeking relief. Their idea is that these people don’t have enough pain, so we need to give them more pain to fix them,” she said.

No matter the intention, these forms of therapy aren't only pointless and outdated, but cruel and damaging. Any emotional trauma that teenagers suffer at Aspen Education’s institutes must only be matched by the neglect they feel at being abandoned by their parents for an important part of their formative years.

While these practices might seem abhorrent, the troubled teen industry is huge, powerful and experienced in deflecting allegations. In 2002, Forbes magazine’s Erika Brown estimated its worth at $2 billion, and since then it's only been on the rise. The industry has managed to stick around in some incarnation since the 60s due to its powerful Republican and Christian roots. Many programmes can be traced back to Straight, Incorporated, Nancy Reagan and George Bush Sr's favourite anti-drug programme that was closed due to abuse lawsuits in the early 90s.

Here, I disagree.  The influences come from Synanon, est, LifeSpring, and whatever else worked.  There are facilities that are Christian and mormon, but in most cases the religious dogma had less to do with practices and more as a cover.  Also, few programs today are direct Straight decedents.  Most are spawn of CEDU, which in turn is a spawn of Synanon.  WWASP is a spawn of LifeSpring and other Utah facilities such as Provo Canyon.  Yeah republicans have also been in support of the industry, but I hate it when they bring politics into this.  Democrats would just as easily have supported places like CEDU clones.  Hell. I'm willing to bet Whooter votes democrat.

Quote
Today, funding from Mitt Romney’s private equity firm Bain Capital (of which he has resigned as CEO, but continues to profit from) has allowed the industry to thrive. The biggest name in the business, Aspen Education, is owned by CRC Health Group, which was bought by Bain Capital in 2006 and is responsible for many of the institutes used on Shipp’s show. Since the takeover, Aspen has seen six deaths occur in its facilities, mainly due to neglect. Worryingly, the US Department of State advertises Aspen programmes for teens on their website.

Hardly known as a bastion of Republicans.

Quote
I confronted Shipp about the issue, but he brushed it aside as an unfortunate change of staffing in a few of the programmes, rather than a powerful nationwide industry that’s rotten to the core. “Treatment facilities can change ownership, management and staffing quite regularly," Shipp told me. "Parents need to proceed with caution with any programme at all and be armed with the right questions to ask.”

Shipp also assured me that, “A family therapist chose the aftercare for each kid based on the situation they were going through.” But if there’s one reason that the industry has managed to survive other than money, it’s that there’s almost no supervision for psychological treatments in the USA, which is kind of at odds with Shipp's claims. As Szalavitz told me, “If I wanted to start a addiction rehab centre tomorrow where treatment just involves standing on your head for extended periods of time, then I could do just that.”

It’s not difficult for the industry to legitimise itself. Professor Friedman told me that “groups like Aspen are now trying to build an empirical case for their programmes by hiring evaluators to conduct supposedly independent studies that validate the effectiveness of the programmes. These studies aren't independent and are more of a marketing effort than a genuine evaluation.”

This kind of “therapy” comes from an older America: one which believes that society is subject to moral decay and that the solution is to force outliers to conform to Republican and Christian ideals of abstinence and hard work. It’s an America that puts its faith in the ecstatic emotional climaxes of TV evangelism and “tough love” over the tried scientific methods of modern psychology.

Again. Unnecessary and polarizing.  Christian dogma has nothing whatsoever to do with, for example, the human potential leanings of many program's workshops.  There is nothing in the Bible that even speaks to drug or alcohol0 prohibition at all.  According to the Bible, Jesus drank, and not just for ceremonial purposes.  His first miracle was to convert water to wine so people at a party could get drunker than they already were.  I'm not a fan of Christianity (or Islam, or any religion for that matter), but I hate it when journalists blame it for a paranoid, reactionary, prohibitionist culture that developed independently and only as of this past century worked it's way into mainstream Christianity, and only by blatantly ignoring things like Jesus's fondness for wine.

All this does is to convince Christians reading the article that it's just written by some atheist leftist with an unfair grudge against all things moral.  It undermines the core arguments which should otherwise be important to everybody regardless of faith or political persuasion.  Articles like this will only keep kids of OWS Democrats out of programs.

Quote
Where we see experimentation and the pushing of boundaries, it sees sin and societal corruption that must be violently scared out of people. Normal teenagers are being told that they are wrong and worthless, then broken and abused with the goal of making them “born again” as upstanding adults. And all the while, their parents’ bank accounts are being emptied straight into the coffers of America’s richest men. (The recession has dampened the industry’s growth, but CRC Health lists the net revenue per child in outdoor programmes as $438.96 per day, and in residential programmes as $257.87 per day.)

And yet, while minor investigations have forced individual rehab centres to change staff, the industry continues to thrive. That's because these institutions use the same methods, have the same roots and are funded by the same people. Which begs the question: Why has there been no attempt at state regulation of treatment centres? Until there is, American kids are destined to continue suffering in these abusive institutions.

Follow Matt on Twitter: @Matt_A_Shea
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Che Gookin

  • Global Moderator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
  • Karma: +11/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 06:16:47 AM »
Mind control and thought reform are hardly new ideas, I can agree that the father of the real ratbag programs like SEED and CEDU (and all their kooky offspring) were crapped out of Synonan and friends, but I'd be very cautious about giving them too much credit for old warped ideas. To do so ignores an entire history of mind control, thought reform, cults, and other nutbag people and organizations.

A history that is as rich in lunacy as it is long in spanning.

As for Josh shipp?

He can go !@#$ himself.

I'm frankly getting tired of hearing about his sorry behind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 08:21:07 AM »
Matt Shea stated:
Quote
Maia Szalavitz, author of Help at Any Cost: How the Troubled-Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids, told me about some of the horror stories her own research uncovered.

Oh Boy,  If Matt Shea had spoken to Dave Marcus instead of Maia he would have written a very much different and a more accurate article.  Unlike Maia, Dave Marcus, spent 14 months in the “Belly of the Beast” as many of you refer to the industry as and reported his findings in a book called “What it takes to pull me through”.

Maia performed what journalists refer to as “Drive-by” reporting.  She never bothered to spend any time inside a program gathering facts.  She interviewed a few kids who had attended these schools and report only the most horrific stories and painted the whole industry based on her findings.  This is similar to interviewing kids from public school who have been abused, raped by their teacher or attended Columbine high school and reported that there is a good chance your child can be killed or raped if you allow them to attend public school.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Pile of Dead Kids

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 760
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 12:36:25 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
She never bothered to spend any time inside a program gathering facts.

Because they would have totally let her do that.

Quote from: "Whooter"
What it takes to pull me through

Wasn't this thoroughly debunked as regurgitated nonsense? Because I distinctly remember exactly that. In fact, I distinctly remember you being banned. Multiple times, IIRC. Looks like everything's being resurrected, except WWASPS, Aspen, and all the kids in this list, of course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
...Sergey Blashchishen, James Shirey, Faith Finley, Katherine Rice, Ashlie Bunch, Brendan Blum, Caleb Jensen, Alex Cullinane, Rocco Magliozzi, Elisa Santry, Dillon Peak, Natalynndria Slim, Lenny Ortega, Angellika Arndt, Joey Aletriz, Martin Anderson, James White, Christening Garcia, Kasey Warner, Shirley Arciszewski, Linda Harris, Travis Parker, Omega Leach, Denis Maltez, Kevin Christie, Karlye Newman, Richard DeMaar, Alexis Richie, Shanice Nibbs, Levi Snyder, Natasha Newman, Gracie James, Michael Owens, Carlton Thomas, Taylor Mangham, Carnez Boone, Benjamin Lolley, Jessica Bradford's unnamed baby, Anthony Parker, Dysheka Streeter, Corey Foster, Joseph Winters, Bruce Staeger, Kenneth Barkley, Khalil Todd, Alec Lansing, Cristian Cuellar-Gonzales, Janaia Barnhart, a DRA victim who never even showed up in the news, and yet another unnamed girl at Summit School...

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 08:57:18 AM »
Hi PODK, its good to see you back again.  I remember the discussion a few years ago also.  There were many posters here on fornits who did not like the report/book because Dave Marcus found The Academy at Swift river to be helpful to most children.  He lived and taught there and followed a peer group for 14 months.  He reported on the good as well as the bad aspects of the industry.  Many here on fornits prefer to discuss only the negative side of the industry and therefore the book was not a favorite here.

Maia never had the visibility nor experienced the inside of any program and merely interviewed and reported on only the negative aspects of the industry.  Her book was accepted here largely because of its negative spin towards the industry, in my opinion.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline none-ya

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2103
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 10:11:28 AM »
Quote
Whooter wrotre;
Maia never had the visibility nor experienced the inside of any program and merely interviewed and reported on only the negative aspects of the industry. Her book was accepted here largely because of its negative spin towards the industry, in my opinion.

One does not have to ingest arsenic,to put a negative spin on poison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
?©?€~¥@

Muppeteer

  • Guest
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 10:20:36 AM »
Ms. Szalavits' book was accepted here, and elsewhere, largely based on it's reception by professionals as well as survivors spanning a broad spectrum of experience.

From her page, just a sampling of some of the reviews....

"In this riveting and deeply troubling book, Maia Szalavitz shows that we don't have to go to Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo to find examples of harsh violations of human rights: frighteningly similar abuses are inflicted on American teenagers today, in programs ostensibly established to help them. Help At Any Cost vividly illuminates the human costs of these 'treatment' programs, and the urgency of challenging their misleading claims before more of our children are irreparably harmed" -- Elliott Currie, Ph.D., Professor Criminology, Law and Society, University of California-Irvine.

"A piercing, incisive look at an out of control industry that puts profits ahead of children and wreaks havoc on families. The violence of the Tough Love credo that has dominated youth rehabilitation for decades will shock you to rage and tears. A must read for anyone concerned with the welfare of our children today." -- Stephen Elliott, former ward of the state and author of Happy Baby and A Life Without Consequences.

"How much of the industry that provides residential drug treatment for teenagers consists of institutionalized child abuse? I don't know, but Maia Szalavitz makes a strong case that the answer is 'too much of it,' and that no system is now in place to detect and remedy those abuses." -- Mark Kleiman, Director, Drug Policy Analysis Program, University of California-Los Angeles

"In this long awaited study of the booming 'teen help' industry, Szalavitz bravely takes on an important issue impacting teens more today than ever before. In this thorough and riveting example, she calls for parents, educators and mentors of teens to take a closer look at the "help" their teens are receiving. In fact, the lives of many teens depend on it!"-- Lynn Ponton, MD, author ofThe Romance of Risk: Why Teens do the Things They Do,Professor of Psychiatry, University of California, San Francisco.

"Help at Any Cost is the fascinating, disturbing story of an AmericanAbu Ghraib that preys on troubled teens and their unwitting parents.Maia Szalavitz's meticulously researched account lays bare one of themost under-reported injustices occurring in America today. It is achilling portrait of the dehumanizing effects of the war on drugs andof lives wasted by a teen help industry run amuck." -- Evan Wright, best-selling author of Generation Kill and PEN award recipient.

"Maia Szalavitz has written a brave and independent book. In an era when we believe children are regularly dying due to drugs, sex, suicide, and crime, parents are ready to try any solution to "save" their children. Szalavitz has discovered that the tough-love programs many parents resort to do more harm than good, and she writes with facility about research while presenting on-the- ground reportage that puts flesh on the often-horrifying stories of children caught in the maws of tough love therapy. Finally, she presents parents with tools with which to evaluate these programs and to otherwise make sound decisions to help their troubled children." -- Stanton Peele, Ph.D., J.D., author of 7 Tools to Beat Addiction.

"This powerful book describes with sensitivity and clarity how fear, ignorance, greed and inhumanity converge to create a 'therapy' industry that humiliates, degrades, deprives and tortures our own children sometimes to death. This amazing, sad, hopeful book is a clarion call to all who value children: every parent and every professional working with adolescents should read this book. And then give it to any policy maker, legislator, clinician, educator or caregiver you know." -- Bruce D. Perry, M.D., Ph.D., Senior Fellow, The ChildTrauma Academy, former chief of psychiatry, Texas Children's Hospital, Baylor College of Medicine.

"As a survivor of a teen boot camp, I was stunned by Szalavitz's brilliant expose of the "teen help" industry. A book-length investigation into the dark side of this booming business was long overdue, and Szalavitz nailed it on the head. It's a landmark study of a business that frequently hurts -- and sometimes kills --teenagers. This book deserves a wide audience." -- Julia Scheeres, author, Jesusland, attended Escuela Caribe, located in the Dominican Republic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Che Gookin

  • Global Moderator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
  • Karma: +11/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 10:49:15 AM »
http://www.heal-online.org/swiftriver.htm

While not the best writing, I did find it interesting reading. The cultic influences at work within ASR definitely need to be investigated quite carefully. The anxiety felt by the young lady in the article would be consistent with the same type of anxiety felt by those recovering from a cult.

Be interesting to know more about what she has to say.

We all have to remember the stench of ASR goes right back to CEDU and that very much is one of the aborted spawn of the anti-christ itself. I guess that makes ASR the bowel movement of the aborted spawn of the etc?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5513
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 11:07:05 AM »
Her book did get good reviews, I think we all agreed to that several years ago.  But she never had the opportunity to witness and experience the day to day operations of a program which was unfortunate.  She was limited to just second hand information.  I am not saying it was all inaccurate it just wasn't the complete story.  Many refer to it as drive-by journalism now a days and is why today many reports are entrenched with the troops in Afghanistan , for example, so that they can report information which they know is accurate.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 11:09:17 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Hi PODK, its good to see you back again.  I remember the discussion a few years ago also.  There were many posters here on fornits who did not like the report/book because Dave Marcus found The Academy at Swift river to be helpful to most children.  He lived and taught there and followed a peer group for 14 months.  He reported on the good as well as the bad aspects of the industry.

He lived and taught what he was permitted to see and teach.  I remember clearly how the program I was in would clean up and outright lie to visitors.  They presented a false front when it was convenient.  Even if Dave Marcus did witness an sanitized version of the program, after being there 14 months i'm not at all convinced he wouldn't have "gone native".  The bizarre starts to seem normal after a while.  Let me quote an amazon review of the book:

Quote
What would have been a less harsh and equally effectvie solution for jerome, the boy who had never touched an illicit drug and who only needed greater attention academically to thrive? Why was his mother not encouraged to look at the alternative school that he ended up at first? Is there a potential danger in putting a naive and socially struggling kid from the suburbs in a place with world weary drug taking sophisticates? Would it be culturally appropriate for a hispanic girl with devout catholic beliefs to have to confess her sexual sins publically?

This book also presents the kids relapses as an unfortunate accident without extensively delving into why. It strikes me that Trevor, the witty and easygoing Englishman never really learnt how to survive outside of the highly artificial world of ASR. Perhaps this was because it did not give him the self worth to refuse to engage in behaviours extreme enough to be lifethreatening or the practical tools to say no to a very real and strong temptation.

And what of the staff? Only one line was devoted to the fact that the enthusiastic English teacher left claiming the only thing she loved about the place was the kids. Why was this so?

And whhat is the effect of such a high turnover of staff on vulnerable troubled young people? DJ the ADD adoptee began a down hill slide when his favourite PE teacher Big Mike abruptly left.

Finally it does not question at all the morality of the programme. Actively punishing harrdworking kids such as Jerome for not turning in their friends when they confide in each other does not teach loyalty or strengthen friendship. It comes across as meanspirited and unjust. Does any school have the moral right to tell a mother what she should or should not put in a letter to her child?

Apparently, none of these things seemed to shock Dave Marcus in the least -- certainly not in retrospect.  Anyway, wasn't he  And even if what he saw and reported was completely accurate, it's still anecdote.  There is no proof whatsoever that a single kid was ever saved by a program.  There are plenty who think they were, but then again, there are plenty who swear by homeopathy, or Scientology, or foul smelling exotic fruits.

Speaking of exotic fruits, the Noni fruit, which Whooter is so fond of is not allowed to be sold in Europe as a health product.  It's permitted to be sold as a food, but it's not permissible to sell it with any claims about health benefits.  Why?  Because there is no real evidence there are any.  Why then is it OK to send kids to a programs that makes claims about "saving" kids when there is no evidence that has ever happened and there is considerable evidence the methods often employed are harmful?  Should parents be able to subject their kids, as their property, to any untested treatment whatsoever?

That's really the core issue here.  Desperate parents are willing to try anything when they feel like their kids are spiraling out of control and programs are more than willing to sell them a solution.  The viability or efficacy of the solution doesn't matter.  What matters is that it makes the parents feel good and as far as i'm concerned, that's the number one goal of many of these programs -- not helping the kids.  Whooter would argue that by helping the kids, the parents are pleased.  I would counter that programs need not actually help the kids.  All they have to do is get the kids to believe, and openly profess, that they were helped.  If they explode later -- well.  It's anybody's fault but the program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2013, 11:17:38 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Her book did get good reviews, I think we all agreed to that several years ago.  But she never had the opportunity to witness and experience the day to day operations of a program which was unfortunate.

Like none-ya said. You don't have to drink poison to know it's bad for you.  You don't have to have had cancer to know how to treat it. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if you have 1000 kids saying they had a horrible experience in program and only 100 saying they were saved, there might very well be a problem.  Maia does not go so far as to say that all programs across the board are bad.  What she says is that because it's impossible to tell a good program from a bad one, effectively all programs are unsafe.  Straight was once thought to be the cat's meow.  CEDU as well.  WWASP had it's day, and the lists goes on.  The programs of today will no doubt fall into disrepute and the ones that come after will no doubt claim to be "better".  To have "learned from the mistakes".  And so it all repeats and nothing really changes but the names.  CEDU becomes Aspen.  "Propheets" become workshops of "LifeSteps".  "Raps" become "group".  "Bans" becomes "non-com".  If the programs really worked, Whooter -- f they really have changed -- why is it that there has never been a single peer reviewed study -- not a single one -- that has shown that programs are effective in the long term and cause no lasing harm?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline none-ya

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2103
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 11:24:20 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Her book did get good reviews, I think we all agreed to that several years ago.  But she never had the opportunity to witness and experience the day to day operations of a program which was unfortunate.

Like none-ya said. You don't have to drink poison to know it's bad for you.  You don't have to have had cancer to know how to treat it. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that if you have 1000 kids saying they had a horrible experience in program and only 100 saying they were saved, there might very well be a problem.  Maia does not go so far as to say that all programs across the board are bad.  What she says is that because it's impossible to tell a good program from a bad one, effectively all programs are unsafe.  Straight was once thought to be the cat's meow.  CEDU as well.  WWASP had it's day, and the lists goes on.  The programs of today will no doubt fall into disrepute and the ones that come after will no doubt claim to be "better".  To have "learned from the mistakes".  And so it all repeats and nothing really changes but the names.  CEDU becomes Aspen.  "Propheets" become workshops of "LifeSteps".  "Raps" become "group".  "Bans" becomes "non-com".  If the programs really worked, Whooter -- f they really have changed -- why is it that there has never been a single peer reviewed study -- not a single one -- that has shown that programs are effective in the long term and cause no lasing harm?

Psy, if you feel so strongly, I don't understand the need to give the opposition a voice. Unless of course you could recommend a  good program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
?©?€~¥@

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 11:38:44 AM »
Quote from: "none-ya"
Psy, if you feel so strongly, I don't understand the need to give the opposition a voice.

Because I want to understand how industry representatives think and argue.  I want others to see it too.  It also provides a catalyst for discussion.

Quote
Unless of course you could recommend a  good program.

Even if thought I knew of a good program, I would not.  I could never be sure.  Moreover, why should parents trust me?  Becuase of my experiences?  What about parents like Sue Scheff or students like Kevin August or some others who I can think of who have had experiences and yet still refer (and not to good places either)?  This is a discussion that has been had many times on Fornits. If there is one message i'd like parents to hear is that they should trust nobody.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline none-ya

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2103
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 12:21:58 PM »
Here we go again. Delete my posts?
What's the problem now?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
?©?€~¥@

Offline Che Gookin

  • Global Moderator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4241
  • Karma: +11/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Vice article on The Troubled Teen Industry
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 12:44:36 PM »
Far be it for me to appear as if I were siding with none-ya, perish the thought, but I'm having a hard time seeing how comparing exotic fruit and other equally bizarre analogies has much of anything to do with the article.

I mean really.. aren't his comments about the whooter just as relevant in a topic thrown this far out of whack?

Unless of course you are trying to illustrate the absurd lengths programs go to make their already absurd case. If that's the case then sorry None-ya, I agree with Psy.

Personally though, I'm wondering if you've been taking a bit of your vino therapy too seriously or some such thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »