My 16 year old daughter's first love

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

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exsafecounselor:
She said "Why would you want to be so manipulative and controlling in your childs life.

And of course that poor boy is thinking only of her he is being tortured in a wilderness program, and you are about to sabotage his progress to meet your own adgenda.

I am sad, for your children for that boy it is a shame."

So I guess I left a few words out that did not seem ridiculous. I want to know where she and anyone else gets the idea that setting boundaries and enforcing them on your child is controlling and manipualtive. It is a fact of adolescent development, that teens need structure and discipline. They are emotional tornados developing into adults. Providing this structure actually relieves stress, in the fact that the teen now has fewer choices to agonize over. Kaydeejaded just needs to read a book about adolescent development.

To use a program analogy-remember when you were an oldcomer, the newcomers were driving you nuts and you had all these responsibilities to get done. Do you remember the sense of relief you had when your responsibilities were taken away and you had fewer things to worry about. Its the same principle.

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2004-01-29 09:41 ]

Anonymous:

--- Quote ---On 2004-01-29 09:38:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

"She said "Why would you want to be so manipulative and controlling in your childs life.

And of course that poor boy is thinking only of her he is being tortured in a wilderness program, and you are about to sabotage his progress to meet your own adgenda.

I am sad, for your children for that boy it is a shame."

So I guess I left a few words out that did not seem ridiculous. I want to know where she and anyone else gets the idea that setting boundaries and enforcing them on your child is controlling and manipualtive. It is a fact of adolescent development, that teens need structure and discipline. They are emotional tornados developing into adults. Providing this structure actually relieves stress, in the fact that the teen now has fewer choices to agonize over. Kaydeejaded just needs to read a book about adolescent development.

To use a program analogy-remember when you were an oldcomer, the newcomers were driving you nuts and you had all these responsibilities to get done. Do you remember the sense of relief you had when your responsibilities were taken away and you had fewer things to worry about. Its the same principle.

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2004-01-29 09:41 ]"

--- End quote ---

Oh, and, by the way, you don't impress me as having a meaningful understanding of which limits are normal and healthy and which limits are not.

If you are typical of the quality of "counselors" messing around in the kids' heads, I can see why so many kids ended up psychological/psychiatric casualties of the program.

Go back to school, with an open mind, and get a PhD in clinical psychology. Or go to med school, graduate, and specialize in psychiatry. Then complete the post-graduation training to get your license to practice.

If you learn with an open mind, you'll do a lot less harm that you will kicking around in the world thinking you're qualified to be somebody's shrink when you're not.

Unqualified people digging around in other people's heads, especially the heads of *unconsenting* other people, do far more harm than good.

Cayo Hueso:

--- Quote ---On 2004-01-29 09:38:00, exsafecounselor wrote:

So I guess I left a few words out that did not seem ridiculous. I want to know where she and anyone else gets the idea that setting boundaries and enforcing them on your child is controlling and manipualtive. It is a fact of adolescent development, that teens need structure and discipline. They are emotional tornados developing into adults. Providing this structure actually relieves stress, in the fact that the teen now has fewer choices to agonize over. Kaydeejaded just needs to read a book about adolescent development.

To use a program analogy-remember when you were an oldcomer, the newcomers were driving you nuts and you had all these responsibilities to get done. Do you remember the sense of relief you had when your responsibilities were taken away and you had fewer things to worry about. Its the same principle.

[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2004-01-29 09:41 ]"

--- End quote ---

I agree that kids need structure and discipline. Of COURSE they do, I don't think ANYONE is disagreeing with that, but your definition of those words and mine are vastly different. The analogy of the newc/oldcomer holds no water with me...those are COMPLETELY different circumstances and you know it.

There are ways to discipline without controlling the person. Yes, I have a degree of control over my kids actions, but I DO NOT try and control the person they are.....these programs do...they try and mold them into good little citizens that they don't have to worry about anymore and they try and treat them all in the same manner. I don't even treat my kids in the same manner...they're different people, different things work for each one of them. You set rules, you set limits, you set consequences (the best ones I've found are the natural ones they get from their own mistakes) and if the rules and limits are not followed, the consequences kick in. If that doesn't work, you move to the next consequence in line and so on. If you have a teen that is not following REASONABLE rules......and that's a tough one, REASONABLE....or if there is danger to another household member, then obviously something needs to be done, BUT.......if there is good, open, honest communication and the rules/limits/consequences are set up and FOLLOWED FROM THE START....it usually works. IF it truly gets to the point where a teen needs to be removed from the house, it should NOT be to some warehouse/brainwash factory/"alternative" school etc. People get through this kind of stuff EVERY DAY without having to have some group of strangers take over parenting responsibilities for them.
All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow.
--H.L. Mencken
--- End quote ---

Verity:
Ok, I registered so if anyone wants to PM me, here I am, the Mom who started this thread. Someone said this....

"People that need saving aren't good romantic partners."

I can't agree with that statement. Bad things happen to good people. Maybe I spent too much of my own life helping the walking wounded, and my daughter has learnt this behavior from me, but KINDNESS is not a bad quality in a person. If you believe that "what goes around comes around", then you help people, not because you want a romantic relationship with them, but if it happens that you fall in love with them along the way, what's wrong with that? Sh*t happens.

Someone also said: "And *why* is she looking for a partner she needs to save/mother/rescue?"

This boy was not in need of rescue when she met him, at least if he was, it was very well disguised. Not only is he the best looking guy in school who would have no trouble getting himself onto the front cover of GQ, (which to a teenage girl is quite important), but also, he is extremely bright (overlooking his interest in substance abuse), and he had access to the best of everything (and what teenager doesn't think they own everything of their parents). Too good to be true? Yep, that's what she found out.....

Someone also said: "How comfortable is she with her own attractiveness and her own self-worth?"

She's stunningly attractive, or she would not have attracted Mr GQ. Does she know it? Of course not. Does anybody at 16? It was probably her MODESTY that was one of the qualities that attracted him to her. I do not disagree that she has problems with low self esteem, but if there's one good thing to come out of this for her, it is the realization that she is needed. That has done wonders for her self esteem.

Someone also said: "She should be shooting for a guy who's about the same level of attractiveness, intelligence, prospects as she has---and should have no trouble finding such dates."

Number 1, that's exactly what she had in him (at least on the face of it). I guess his prospects have dramatically reduced since he's going through BM, but up to the time he went in, his only problem was substance abuse. I'm not trying to diminish the significance of that, but I am beginning to understand that problem could have been fixed other ways, or at least by the time he left wilderness camp.

I remind her often that he is not the same person, that he will have changed since he went away and that they will probably find they have grown apart, but she doesn't believe me. And what impresses me about her determination to stand by him regardless, is THAT is exactly what TRUE love is all about. Why would I want to destroy that part of her called LOYALTY, even if it is misplaced? She will learn if it is misplaced in her own time. I cannot force her to give him up, I can only GUIDE her, by making her think twice about certain things.

The responses here are very helpful, not least because I'm not good at playing "devil's advocate", but there's no shortage of you here!

Number 2, since she's truly in love, even if she were to give up on him tomorrow, she would not even look at another guy for a long time. In my experience it takes 2 years to come to terms with the loss of a TRUE LOVE (rather than an obsession or a crush).

Do you think I would be putting my time into this if I thought this was a passing attraction? Nope. I am far too busy for that. What is REALLY starting to concern me (apart from my fears that he will not even survive the ordeal, but let's not go there) is that this boy will want nothing more to do with his parents after he gets out. That's what I am beginning to understand from you folks. That's a major concern. Where will he go? How will he survive?

And where this forum has been imeasureably helpful is convincing me that I must do nothing right now. This is not easy for me, because I like to think I can take achieve anything if I put enough time and energy into it, but that's impossible here. Not only do I not know enough, I'm not in control and never will be. So I will not try to fix this problem. As one of you said (sorry I don't know names), I will not just do something, I will stand here.....

Finally, let me ask another question; (I just love this stuff - I can send a question off into cyberspace and get an answer from experts instantly that would take me months to find out by myself)....

I have made notes on 3 books.

1. Smoke & Mirrors
2. Drug Warriors
3. Smart Love

If I were to buy one book, which should it be and why?

Thank you for your time.

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