Author Topic: Do not use WWASP  (Read 6519 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2004, 09:04:00 PM »
Oh hell, how many parents can claim goodie-2-shoe status and say they never stole money from their parents when they were teenagers or never once snuck a peek at their older brother's (or even dad's) Playboy?  This kid's mom is depressed b/c she can't control her son's attitude and behavior, in spite of spending a minor fortune on raising him in a therapeutic community.  Back to the wilderness?  What a great idea.  No X-rated websites out there to worry about.  

 :roll:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2004, 09:16:00 PM »
Isn't materbating considered an egregious offense in some of these places? How can parents be so anti-normal?
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2004, 11:03:00 PM »
Found another quote while researching laetrile and alternative cures for cancer. A topic for another forum. It is directed toward medicine, but should be applied to psychiatry as well.

http://www.seedoffaith.com/
Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship  ... To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic and have no place in a republic ... The constitution of this republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom."
Benjamin Rush, M.D., signer of The Declaration of Independence, physician to George Washington. from THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF BENJAMIN RUSH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2004, 12:38:00 AM »
Removing kids to foster homes is not the solution either. The same abuses can and do occur.
A documentary aired about a welfare mom trying to make ends meet. The social worker who was put on the case finally determined that she was unfit and removed her children to foster homes. One of the complaints was that she left the older kids in charge while she worked.
The really infuriating thing about this situation, they paid the foster parents DOUBLE what they paid her. Where's the rationale???

Comptroller widens investigation into state foster care program
12:50 PM CST on Thursday, January 15, 2004
KVUE News

A financial review of the foster and residential care industry has turned into a massive statewide investigation.

New allegations of mismanagement and child abuse forced investigators to expand their probe.

Stacks of reports and surveys are piling up at the state comptroller's office.

The results were supposed to be issued this week but will not be ready until late next month.

State Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn says the investigation is looking at a lot more than how our tax dollars are being used.

"Certainly I'm concerned about the tax dollars, and that's why this is a special financial report, but most importantly I am concerned that our most vulnerable children are being put into an environment, that is not safe for them, that does not nurture and enhance these children. They are our most precious resource, our most vulnerable resource, and let me tell you these forgotten children have got one tough grandma looking out for them right now," says Strayhorn.

Investigators want to hear from people with experiences in the state foster and residential care systems.

For more information on the foster care survey, click here.

oOo

If you would like to see the story online you can view it with Realplayer at this link;

http://www.kvue.com/cgi-bin/bi/video/G2 ... le=5649128
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2004, 08:14:00 AM »
Yes I believe the boy looking at porn is normal....however I do not believe stealing from ones family is and taking a credit card is.  One should not have to hide their purse in their own home, one should not have to worry about locking up their money.  Teens need to learn RESPECT of others things vs. thinking only of them selves.

However, it is also important to make the punishment fit the crime.  Personally I would one make him repay what he took and would also cut the computer availability.  You can set passwords that the kids do not know.....You can make it so adult sites can not be shown.  Parents need to start the parenting vs. looking for sympathy on a forum.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2004, 10:06:00 AM »
Given all that one can infer by the fact that these parents put their kid in a TBS to begin with and their response to this minor infraction, I'm guessing this kid is probably in a similar situation, intellectually and developmentally, as I was at around age 15.

Quote
I think telling Ben that he can't have contact with us would probably come as a relief to him at this point.


First, this statement is probably on track. When I was on my phases, I had no desire whatever to "earn" talk or to go home. I missed my dad the way he used to be when he was acting as my father and not as an agent of the Program. But I didn't expect to be seing that old man ever again. My mom had always been an agent of the Program just about as far back as I could remember. I didn't hate them. I wasn't mad at them. I simply had no preference wrt where I did my time till I could get out or who I was supposed to call Mom and Dad in the mean time.

Second, I had a very serious problem distinguising between different levels of risk and different levels of infractions. I had lived a very insular life as a kid. Everything was all very black and white. My mom made no distinction between petty and major issues. Just like these parents, anything other than 100% compliance with a smile 100% of the time was 100% proof of drug abuse and a need for treatment.

So I didn't slide gradually from good kid to 'troubled' teen. I tried my very best to walk the straight and narrow. When I just couldn't take it anymore, I started right down the list of "druggie" behavior that I'd learned from Open Meetings every Friday night for years. I had already smoked pot w/ my brother and taken the car out at night. I had not gotten caught, but I knew I would eventually. And I knew there was only one consequence; I'd be put in group at The Seed and come out the other end weird like my older brothers and sister and some of their friends.

So I packed a back pack, took my $137 out of the credit union and hitchhiked around the country for like a month, looking for someplace to land and stay hidden for the remaining 2 years+ till I turned of age. I really made no distinction whatever between smoking a joint to see what all the fuss was about and thumbing my way around the interstate highway system all alone.

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there;  lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid.  She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well;  but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2004, 10:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-01-16 07:06:00, Antigen wrote:

"Given all that one can infer by the fact that these parents put their kid in a TBS to begin with and their response to this minor infraction, I'm guessing this kid is probably in a similar situation, intellectually and developmentally, as I was at around age 15.



Quote

 I think telling Ben that he can't have contact with us would probably come as a relief to him at this point.




First, this statement is probably on track. When I was on my phases, I had no desire whatever to "earn" talk or to go home. I missed my dad the way he used to be when he was acting as my father and not as an agent of the Program. But I didn't expect to be seing that old man ever again. My mom had always been an agent of the Program just about as far back as I could remember. I didn't hate them. I wasn't mad at them. I simply had no preference wrt where I did my time till I could get out or who I was supposed to call Mom and Dad in the mean time.



Second, I had a very serious problem distinguising between different levels of risk and different levels of infractions. I had lived a very insular life as a kid. Everything was all very black and white. My mom made no distinction between petty and major issues. Just like these parents, anything other than 100% compliance with a smile 100% of the time was 100% proof of drug abuse and a need for treatment.



So I didn't slide gradually from good kid to 'troubled' teen. I tried my very best to walk the straight and narrow. When I just couldn't take it anymore, I started right down the list of "druggie" behavior that I'd learned from Open Meetings every Friday night for years. I had already smoked pot w/ my brother and taken the car out at night. I had not gotten caught, but I knew I would eventually. And I knew there was only one consequence; I'd be put in group at The Seed and come out the other end weird like my older brothers and sister and some of their friends.



So I packed a back pack, took my $137 out of the credit union and hitchhiked around the country for like a month, looking for someplace to land and stay hidden for the remaining 2 years+ till I turned of age. I really made no distinction whatever between smoking a joint to see what all the fuss was about and thumbing my way around the interstate highway system all alone.

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there;  lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid.  She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well;  but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain


"


I'm sorry, Ginger, but given what your parents were like, hitchhiking as a runaway was *safer*.

Your parents were *already* the kind of psycho fate people warn hitchhikers against.

Getting murdered would have been worse, of course.  But provided you didn't get AIDS, even being forced into prostitution would be no more damaging to your psyche and for no longer term than the abuse at The Seed.

And getting murdered and forced into prostitution weren't *certainties* like getting stuck in The Seed was.  I do not believe that you could have avoided The Seed no matter how "good" you were, any more than a battered wife can avoid doing *something* that "sets him off."  Because the thing that triggers the Program behavior, like the thing that triggers the battering behavior, is internal to the abuser, and actions of the abused are merely what the abuser points to as external excuses for his/her abusive behavior.

Thumbing your way around the country was *safer* than your personal home environment, as sad as that fact is.

No wonder you didn't consider it "unsafe"---you lived constantly with "unsafe" because your mother was a fucking loony who a sane person wouldn't trust to raise a hamster, much less a child.

I'm glad your dad's brainwashed foray into dangerous lunacy was only temporary, ultimately, and that he recovered, but at the time he was dangerously mentally unbalanced, as well.

Your sane childhood psyche made a *rational* evaluation at the time about relative risk.

Smoking pot was stupid, but a couple of casual joints was mostly only dangerous *because* it was illegal.

Running away was not a stupid misbehavior, it was a smart self-preservational action of a budding adult who realized, at least subconsciously, that she was *not safe*---running proportionally increased your safety by making serious harm merely a grave risk, rather than a certainty.

It sucks out loud that the grown ups in the surrounding government agencies at the time provided no safer options for you to get out of such a dangerous situation.

Running away would have been dangerous and stupid for most kids in most home situations.  In yours, it was a sane and rational response to an insane and abusive situation.

Have you seen "Sleeping with the Enemy"?  When the wife is lining up all the cans so carefully, and the towels so carefully, she's being just as abused as when he's actually beating the crap out of her---because she's living in a condition of constant terrorization.

Your home environment was lining up the cans and towels.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2004, 10:40:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-01-15 18:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Oh hell, how many parents can claim goodie-2-shoe status and say they never stole money from their parents when they were teenagers or never once snuck a peek at their older brother's (or even dad's) Playboy?  This kid's mom is depressed b/c she can't control her son's attitude and behavior, in spite of spending a minor fortune on raising him in a therapeutic community.  Back to the wilderness?  What a great idea.  No X-rated websites out there to worry about.  



 :roll: "


I didn't steal money from my parents or anyone else.  Did look at other kids' porn mags, though.

I don't think that makes me a goody two shoes.  Most people I know, I would think (but I'll ask), didn't steal money from their parents or anyone else.

On the other hand, I also didn't have parents who actively interfered with my opportunity to use my own labor to earn money around the neighborhood, or, later, in a job.

If this kid's been forced into substantial unpaid labor at the TBS, I take it back---it might legally be stealing, but morally, they've stolen far more from him than he has from them.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2004, 10:43:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-01-15 21:38:00, Deborah wrote:

"

Removing kids to foster homes is not the solution either. The same abuses can and do occur.

A documentary aired about a welfare mom trying to make ends meet. The social worker who was put on the case finally determined that she was unfit and removed her children to foster homes. One of the complaints was that she left the older kids in charge while she worked.

The really infuriating thing about this situation, they paid the foster parents DOUBLE what they paid her. Where's the rationale???



Comptroller widens investigation into state foster care program

12:50 PM CST on Thursday, January 15, 2004

KVUE News



A financial review of the foster and residential care industry has turned into a massive statewide investigation.



New allegations of mismanagement and child abuse forced investigators to expand their probe.



Stacks of reports and surveys are piling up at the state comptroller's office.



The results were supposed to be issued this week but will not be ready until late next month.



State Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn says the investigation is looking at a lot more than how our tax dollars are being used.



"Certainly I'm concerned about the tax dollars, and that's why this is a special financial report, but most importantly I am concerned that our most vulnerable children are being put into an environment, that is not safe for them, that does not nurture and enhance these children. They are our most precious resource, our most vulnerable resource, and let me tell you these forgotten children have got one tough grandma looking out for them right now," says Strayhorn.



Investigators want to hear from people with experiences in the state foster and residential care systems.



For more information on the foster care survey, click here.



oOo



If you would like to see the story online you can view it with Realplayer at this link;



http://www.kvue.com/cgi-bin/bi/video/G2 ... le=5649128



"


Being placed in foster care is substantially *less* likely to result in abuse than staying with abusive parents or being placed in a TBS.

Nothing's perfect, and I would certainly recommend the system place the child with a fit relative willing to care for the child if one is available.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2004, 03:53:00 PM »
***Isn't materbating considered an egregious offense in some of these places? How can parents be so anti-normal?***

This brings up some questions:
What's the arguement against masterbation? Religious?
Does the contract or parent manual inform parents that their teen will not be allowed to masterbate? Or is this sprung on the parent after they have signed the dotted line and find out their teen is being/has been punished for it?
Are they told how their teen will be punished if caught violating this rule?
How is the teen caught?
Are there hidden cameras, sheet/underwear/"spot" checks every morning, do they rely on other teens to rat out their peers?
Who's "truth" about masterbation is forced on the teen? And what rationale is given for forbidding it?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2004, 04:56:00 PM »
Yeah, what is the argument?  Even the most sexually oppressed parents could not stop their kids from exploring their sexuality in the privacy of their own bedroom, for god's sake (unless the parent installed a video surveillance camera which is really SICK).

Second, these kids are coming out of these programs with impaired reality testing skills. How do they even know what's real and what's not? It must be overwhelming ergo the need for after-care programs to monitor their state-of-mind.

Anyway, good questions, Deb.  Hope some of these program parents will respond with some honest answers.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2004, 05:07:00 PM »
***Second, these kids are coming out of these programs with impaired reality testing skills. How do they even know what's real and what's not?***

Is that surprising? According to seminar information, the participants are conditioned to believe, "Everything you think is real, isn't... and everything you think isn't real, is."  They don't even hide it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2004, 09:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-01-17 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yeah, what is the argument?  Even the most sexually oppressed parents could not stop their kids from exploring their sexuality in the privacy of their own bedroom, for god's sake (unless the parent installed a video surveillance camera which is really SICK).



Second, these kids are coming out of these programs with impaired reality testing skills. How do they even know what's real and what's not? It must be overwhelming ergo the need for after-care programs to monitor their state-of-mind.



Anyway, good questions, Deb.  Hope some of these program parents will respond with some honest answers.

"


If you want info from a program person, I'll share that you are absolutely the one with the impaired reality.  WHO says that the kids are told what to think in a wwasps program?  That's so 180 degrees from the truth!   The whole point of personal growth is to find their own answers to what will work for them.

As for after-care - that is a very distorted assumption of why there is after-care.  It's to start applying what they learned, mentor, guide, whatever you want to call it.  

Someone really wants to discredit the programs intentions...sorry, won't fly with someone who knows.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2004, 09:53:00 PM »
Re: LGAT Training Seminars

Impaired reality testing skills is a term straight out of the LifeSpring study done by Drs. Haaken and Adams several years ago.  

Wouldn't it be wise to read the study for yourselves, Parents, before issuing blanket denials or accusing anyone of "bad intentions".

Second, this is a forum where people do not have to tolerate closed-minding thinking.  Speaking your mind is a good thing, but please, do not expect or demand others to go along with your point-of-view verbatim.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2004, 10:44:00 PM »
Who's close minded?  Closed minds is exactly what I'm reading here forr the mostpart.  I'm open to the truth, however, your truth is based on heresay.  

Lifespring?  Many things are based on a predecessor, but is not the same thing.  There were good things in lifespring which MANY other personal growth seminars use.  Personal growth in wwasp is NOT mind control, but mind expansion.  Too much for you?  Then stay in your judgmental little worlds.  If you haven't experienced a wwasp seminar, then continue to compare it to what you have experienced.  That's the "easy" way to remain "right."  Right Deborah?  You don't have a clue what it's all about, only what you experienced in whatever it was you attended for 18% of the time. It wasn't for you.  Nobody said you were wrong for this. However, you are saying other's are wrong for crediting theirs with a more satisfying life.    


If a parent is disgruntled, then, in my view, my view only, is they expected it to look perfect, expected the staff to fix their kid, expected everyone but their kid to take accountability for the choices and actions.  It's always someone else's fault.  

So...not everyone is happy and "satisfied."  It's all in who you ask.
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